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Help – carbon road bike.

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  • June 7, 2014 at 9:58 pm #21625
    bikegirl

    Hi all,

    I’m searching for my first road bike and my requirements are carbon + 105 groupset.

    My high-end choices are GIANT Avail Advance2, Ridley or Colnago CLD, all around the £2K mark.

    Then there are some cheaper options, which I’m strongly considering as this is my first road bike – Ribble and Norco Valence C3 Forma. I do like their frame colour and their geometry does fit me.

    Norco does not have the full 105 kit, which I can get with Ribble, but Ridley are currently out of stock for my frame size…

    My main question – is the carbon specification of these cheaper bikes much worse than the more expensive ones?

    Ribble = ‘mix of Toray T700/T800 carbon fibre’
    Norco = ’24T Mid-Modulus Carbon’

    I am not sure which of those two is better, does anyone know? I’ve also noticed that Ridley’s spec is 24t HM Unidirectional carbon – would HM (high modulus?) be much better than Mid-Modulus?

    Any big issues anyone sees with Norco that I’m missing? If I like the frame I’m guessing I can always upgrade the breaks and other non-105 parts in the future? Will I regret going for a Norco versus these high-end bikes?

    Thanks so much!

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  • August 11, 2014 at 5:27 pm #798191
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    realdeal

    Giants can have seatpost /
    Giants can have seatpost / seat tube issues (I think I read that on here somewhere, have a search), something about the seatpost clamp bolt needing to be constantly tightened.. and the seat tube cracking. Giant weren’t too clever at addressing the issue either so…

    You’ve got a half decent budget there so you don’t need to bother with the likes of Giant or Norco. Look to something with a bit of provenance in the road world, maybe a Colnago or Bianchi.

    I wouldn’t get too hung up on different types of carbon yet, to be honest at this level it’s all very similar. Two things I would spec. though would be a carbon seatpost and bars, just for comfort really.

    Happy hunting!

    August 11, 2014 at 3:05 pm #798189
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    bikegirl

    Yes.. longer than 2 months,
    Yes.. longer than 2 months, actually :(. There are some advantages of getting a 2015 bike with my required spec, which is getting the new 11 speed 105. But this demo bike came up with a very good discount, so wondering what are the cons of this purchase. Warranty will be the same as a new bike and they will change things like wheels, break pads, etc. It’s actually the frame and non-visible damage that I worry about…

    I have my eyes on this Bianchi, but still so expensive 🙁
    Bianchi Intenso Dama Bianca 105 Compact 2014 Women’s Road Bike

    August 11, 2014 at 2:30 pm #798187
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    truffy

    Since you seem to have
    Since you seem to have delayed your purchase decision for 2 months we’re now heading into the 2014 end-of-season (!) sales. I’ve managed to pick up a Bianchi with a cool 15% discount! <:P

    August 11, 2014 at 10:59 am #798185
    0
    bikegirl

    Hi All
    Would anyone consider
    Hi All

    Would anyone consider buying a demo carbon bike? I’m thinking about one of these GIANT demo bikes that were within my options and much cheaper now. My concern is that a damage on carbon frame would not be visible? Any comments really appreciated.

    August 11, 2014 at 10:59 am #798183
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    bikegirl

    Hi All
    Would anyone consider
    Hi All

    Would anyone consider buying a demo carbon bike? I’m thinking about one of these GIANT demo bikes that were within my options and much cheaper now. My concern is that a damage on carbon frame would not be visible? Any comments really appreciated.

    June 16, 2014 at 12:40 am #798181
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    giobox

    The modulus marketing stuff
    The modulus marketing stuff really can’t be used to make bike purchasing decisions. Every brand has it’s own definition of what constitutes high or mid modulus etc. They are almost completely meaningless marketing terms.

    June 16, 2014 at 12:26 am #798179
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    timtak

    Regading the technology of
    Regading the technology of those two frames, from Giant
    High-performance T-700 [Toray T700] raw carbon fiber is used to produce custom composite material in Giant’s own composite factory. Extremely lightweight, stiff and compliant, these handcrafted frames feature the monocoque construction.

    T-600 [Toray T600] raw carbon fiber is used to create the composite material used for these lightweight, stiff and compliant framesets. Blending performance and value, this technology features modified monocoque construction.

    From Giant
    Q: Is there more than one type of raw carbon fibre?
    A: Yes. There are several raw fibre thread types available. T-800, T-700, and T-600 are used in Giant’s composite bikes, each is chosen to maximise and match the engineering goals of the frames used.
    Q: What are the differences between T-800, T-700 and T-600 carbon?
    A: Each is defined by its tensile strength, weight, elongation (base stiffness). For example: The higher the tensile strength… the less material you have to use to achieve the performance value goals for each given frames intended usage. Note lower weights are achieved by using T-800 material that is lighter than lower grades coupled with less material overall needed yields weight savings and less elongation (increases stiffness).

    Again, Giant data
    http://www.choosemybicycle.com/technology/view?id=24

    From the image on this page in Chinese on Toray fibre
    http://dahi30.pixnet.net/blog/post/30993631-%E7%A2%B3%E7%BA%96%E7%B6%AD%E6%AD%90%E5%8C%97%E4%BB%8B%E7%B4%B9-%282%29-%E7%94%9A%E9%BA%BC%E6%98%AF%E7%A2%B3%E7%BA%96%E7%AF%87

    T600 T700
    Number of filaments same same
    Tensile Strength 4149 4900 Mpa (+18%)
    Tensile Modulus same same
    Elongation 1.8 2.1 (16% stretchier)
    Yeild 1700 1650 g/1000m almost the same
    Density 1.79 1.80 g/cm almost the same

    The T700 (industry standard) is about 20% stronger. Or perhaps
    20% lighter for the same weight. And at the same time more forgiving/
    stretchy for improved ride quality and durability perhaps, but they’d
    be able to design in the stiffness so it won’t be stretchy in a bad way.

    On various places on the web, T700 is quoted as being the standard
    fibre, with better bikes using T800 and T1000, and little mention of
    T600 but Giant would be the company to have the design expertise to make it work, at a weight premium I guess.
    http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/450351-does-type-carbon-really-make-difference.html
    http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/carbon-frame-materials
    http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/boardman-t700-carbon-frames.149498/
    If you are buying offline perhaps you can try them out.

    June 15, 2014 at 10:18 pm #798177
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    matthewn5

    +1 for try-before-you-buy. I
    +1 for try-before-you-buy. I see near-new bikes on sale all over ebay and elsewhere because people bought bikes they didn’t really get on with.

    And +1 for build-your-own.

    The key thing for starting out is to maximise the quality/price relationship, because you’ll quickly tire of any compromises, and then be on the hunt for a better bike, and have to sell your near-new bike at a heavy discount.

    June 15, 2014 at 2:13 pm #798175
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    bikegirl

    Bikebud, Cannondales do fit
    Bikebud, Cannondales do fit me and they’re slightly cheaper than the GIANT and Ridley, but I did not really fancy the frame colours and their look 🙁

    timtak, that Mekk price is really interesting, but unfortunately don’t want to buy online and want to use cyclescheme voucher… 🙁

    Now with all this pro-Ultegra comments, I started looking at another option, the
    2014 LIV/GIANT AVAIL COMPOSITE 1 £1599

    This is a carbon frame, lower quality carbon than the 2014 LIV/GIANT AVAIL ADVANCED 2, lower quality wheels but full Ultegra 11 speed.

    So the AVAIL ADVANCED2 is £300 more for better carbon frame and wheels, but 105… and I think I like the white frame better…

    Any comments between these two bikes? Is this 300 pounds worth the better carbon and wheels compared to a lower quality carbon+ultegra? I could always upgrade the groupset to Ultegra in a few years time but I’d still have a better frame?

    Thanks again you all!

    June 12, 2014 at 12:02 pm #798173
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    BikeBud

    My first bit of advice would
    My first bit of advice would be to find a place with lots of different bikes and try them out. Bikes can feel incredibly different, and you’ll be able to at least reduce the options to a few that work for you personally, rather than going by reviews, price & spec. Then you can compare price & spec…!

    The comment about saving a bit aside for wheels is valid, but you don’t have to spend thousands to improve on the standard ones. I got some Ultegra 6700’s for £220 which are nice – lighter, and stiffer than the standard ones that came with my bike.

    Have you thought about Cannondale – SuperSix or Synapse with 105?

    June 12, 2014 at 8:44 am #798171
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    timtak

    > But an affordable upgrade
    > But an affordable upgrade at a later time.
    Good idea, I thought, and considered replacing the 105 bits on my Felt Z5 that I don’t like but, the cost of new pair of Ultegra brake levers and crankset is 416 UKP in total.

    I can’t recommend Ultegra on cheap carbon enough. You can get a Carbon Mekk with mostly Ultegra (including all the bits were I think Ultegra important) for only £1,100. What a bargain! A whole bike for not much more than twice the cost of the crankset and levers!
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/mekk-2g-poggio-p30-ultegra-2013/

    June 12, 2014 at 7:36 am #798169
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    Colin Peyresourde

    Ultegra much better than 106.
    Ultegra much better than 106. But an affordable upgrade at a later time. I had Campag Veloce on my hire bike for a recent ride (cough – Cingles) and didn’t really enjoy it. It seemed like 106, but it kept dropping a chain (weirdly on the same part of the road, but each time different gear). Hardly a scientific look at the two, but all the Shimano riders agreed that the feel of the gears was less preferable.

    June 12, 2014 at 7:03 am #798167
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    Mrmiik

    giobox wrote:Mrmiik

    giobox wrote:
    Mrmiik wrote:

    Why not a quality aluminum bike? Some people just won’t want to ride carbon in winter – crashing on carbon “can” be more catastrophic than aluminum.

    This is based on what? A crash is a crash, and I really don’t think frame material is going to be all that big a factor in your injuries.

    If we’re talking repairability, damaged aluminium frames pretty much have to be thrown away after a crash too. It might still be metal, but very, very different from steel in this regard.

    Nope – I would ride my carbon bike in the winter – but not in the wet. This is just to keep it clean and well functioning. All bikes fail, but I’d rather break an aluminum frame than a carbon one when hitting a patch of black ice.

    June 12, 2014 at 6:11 am #798165
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    s_lim

    +1 for the Cinelli. I race on
    +1 for the Cinelli. I race on mine, but I have to be honest and state that only the frame and forks are original. However, you can pick one up for less than a grand, and spend the rest on wheels, a decent crankset (the Miche set provided is balls), a carbon seat post and stem. You’ll have a phenomenal, responsive and good looking bike

    June 12, 2014 at 1:56 am #798163
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    timtak

    I have one bike with 105 and
    I have one bike with 105 and another with Ultegra. I had read that the difference is minimal, but I notice
    1) the flex of 105 cranks
    2) the bumpy non ergonomic design of 105 brake knob (hoods?) as opposed to the nice, round hand-shaped knobs out of the top of Ultegra brakes
    3) Very largely aesthetically, a less satisfying gear change click
    If I could do it all again with a choice then I’d like Ultegra cranks and front cog, and Ultegra brake handles.

    I think that the Mekk sounds like a bargain.

    I wonder what percentage of those people who recommend bikes made out of aluminium, or name brand carbon, sell them.

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