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realdeal.
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June 7, 2014 at 9:58 pm #21625
bikegirl
Hi all,
I’m searching for my first road bike and my requirements are carbon + 105 groupset.
My high-end choices are GIANT Avail Advance2, Ridley or Colnago CLD, all around the £2K mark.
Then there are some cheaper options, which I’m strongly considering as this is my first road bike – Ribble and Norco Valence C3 Forma. I do like their frame colour and their geometry does fit me.
Norco does not have the full 105 kit, which I can get with Ribble, but Ridley are currently out of stock for my frame size…
My main question – is the carbon specification of these cheaper bikes much worse than the more expensive ones?
Ribble = ‘mix of Toray T700/T800 carbon fibre’
Norco = ’24T Mid-Modulus Carbon’I am not sure which of those two is better, does anyone know? I’ve also noticed that Ridley’s spec is 24t HM Unidirectional carbon – would HM (high modulus?) be much better than Mid-Modulus?
Any big issues anyone sees with Norco that I’m missing? If I like the frame I’m guessing I can always upgrade the breaks and other non-105 parts in the future? Will I regret going for a Norco versus these high-end bikes?
Thanks so much!
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mtbtomo
Notfastenough makes a valid
Notfastenough makes a valid point. Alloy will feel much more immediate and snappy to accelerate versus cheaper carbon.My Giant TCR SL (alloy) and Kinesis Aithein both feel snappier than my KTM Revelator (carbon) but the KTM mutes the bumps a lot better. Because it mutes the bumps so well, I can’t tell if it is really a little softer/slower than the alloy frames but it feels like it. Reviews of the KTM say its pretty rapid, so it may just be deceptive. I like riding all three cos they are light and feel fast!
Even at £2000, bikes come mostly with pretty rubbish/heavy wheels. I’d spend £1000 – £1500 on a bike with a reputable frame (alloy or carbon), £300 – £500 on some lighter wheels and the rest perhaps on some nice finishing kit, or tweaking the bars/saddle etc once you know what you like/dislike.
notfastenough
Re the carbon/alu price
Re the carbon/alu price crossover, opinions will vary but I think generally people on here will tell you that cheap carbon is not as good as good alu. Try this: find a carbon bike for £1000, then test ride it. Find a good alloy bike (cannondale CAAD is a good example) and repeat. My experience was that the carbon soaked up the road buzz, but it felt reluctant to accelerate. The alloy will ensure you feel the road surface, but when you jump on the pedals, the thing will practically light up. The great news is, you can sort the road buzz with such things as a carbon seatpost, lower tyre pressures, better bar tape etc.
srchar
700c wrote:srchar wrote:It
700c wrote:srchar wrote:It only cost me £2,200 to build a titanium road bike – Van Nic Ventus, Campag Athena/Chorus mix and Zonda wheelset. That was with expensive Thomson seatpost & stem, Easton EC90SL forks, Cane Creek 110 headset and a Selle SMP Forma saddle.That’s probably the nicest build you’ll get for £2200, IMO!
If anyone wants to replicate it, here’s my costs spreadsheet – just noticed that the final cost included a workstand!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1omgJJzU3ZiwAnFC3LApPimMck0uJ14WuBe8xS7SXAkY/edit?usp=sharing
700c
srchar wrote:It only cost me
srchar wrote:It only cost me £2,200 to build a titanium road bike – Van Nic Ventus, Campag Athena/Chorus mix and Zonda wheelset. That was with expensive Thomson seatpost & stem, Easton EC90SL forks, Cane Creek 110 headset and a Selle SMP Forma saddle.That’s probably the nicest build you’ll get for £2200, IMO!
But really the frame material itself will not guarantee you a certain quality of ride, its about the whole package, and how they’ve designed the frame for a given purpose. Oh and make sue fit is right!
srchar
It only cost me £2,200 to
It only cost me £2,200 to build a titanium road bike – Van Nic Ventus, Campag Athena/Chorus mix and Zonda wheelset. That was with expensive Thomson seatpost & stem, Easton EC90SL forks, Cane Creek 110 headset and a Selle SMP Forma saddle. You could easily use cheaper finishing kit and get a similar build down below £2k – in fact there’s an off-the-peg build (“Ventus SE”) sold in a number of places for £1600.I also have a Canyon aluminium road bike with Ultegra Di2 and Ksyrium Elites that came in at £1800 boxed and delivered from their outlet listings.
Both are great bikes and much nicer options (IMO) than a generic carbon/105 number, so don’t assume that you need to ride a carbon frame just because that’s what the pros use.
I’d go to a well-stocked bike shop with a good range and ride a few bikes before dropping two grand on a first bike that a) may turn out to be nothing like what you expected and b) might not even fit you properly.
Just my 2p B-)
sergius
I went with a relatively
I went with a relatively cheap carbon bike from Cube (Cube Agree GTC http://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/cube-agree-gtc-review-7721.html), as others have suggested I picked up the 2013 model just after they released the 2014 range so saved myself £350 and got it for £900.I don’t have a huge set of experience to compare it to other bikes, but as someone who recently switched from MTB to Road cycling, I’ve certainly loved my “cheap” carbon bike.
The Cube bikes tend to have pretty good reviews, and you do tend to get pretty decent components for the price point.
I’m already planning my next bike having got the bug, now I know I like the road bike I’ll get myself something fancy in a year or so (disk brakes, possibly Di2) when some of the new tech has been around longer and consequently comes down in price a little.
A lot depends on what sort of riding you are doing as well. If you are doing 4-5 hour blasts on the weekend with the occasional Sportive like me, then any £1000+ bike will likely suit you very well. If you are commuting every day on it then tbh you probably want something cheaper that you care less about (I used to commute on my MTB with hybrid tyres on it). If you are racing then something higher end is probably more appropriate.
surly_by_name
Why not all carbon and
Why not all carbon and Ultegra with enough left over to buy some pedals. http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3241(Inevitably.)
timtak wrote:Carbon forks and
timtak wrote:Carbon forks and rear triangle bend to give the effect of suspension, like riding a mountain bikeErrrr … no they don’t.
Ah, notfastenough to address
Ah, notfastenough to address your other questions, I am tired of searching, so don’t want to miss the rest of this spring/summer season… can’t wait to get back on the saddle! And yes, Cervelo would be lovely! 🙂notfastenough, you did not
notfastenough, you did not come across patronizing at all.. quite the opposite and all comments are very helpful. I fully agree with you that the more I ride, the more I will notice what I like and dislike and that’s why I am concerned with spending that much money on my first road bike. I have run a MTB for many years and after trying a good ALU bike with 105 for a few days I got hooked, hence why I decided that I wanted to go as far as carbon. And the fact that I haven’t got much space for storage made me think that I will have to get the best that I can afford, avoiding to get a second one too quickly.. My search is taking months, it started during last year’s sales :(. You did make me worried about the existence of this big overlap between good aluminium and cheap carbon, though. I thought that even a cheap-ish carbon frame would be better than the best alu as it would exhibit those ride characteristics pointed by mtbtomo (thanks by the way, mtbtomo!), this is why I am leaning towards these cheaper models. I would be very happy with a Ribble and I’ve read good reviews of it, but my size is not available at the moment on the frame I fancy 🙁dreamlx10, that is a good option that escaped my radar – probably because I was filtering anything that did not have 105 groupset.. I do like the frame color and the frame has got a similar geometry when compared to the Avail Advance 2 – I like the seatpost and top tube format specially. It just looks like it does not have internal cable routing which I would really like? I will probably take a look at the shops, not sure if my frame size will still be available. If the cable is internal, I could probably consider a groupset upgrade in the future with this frame…..
I will also in the meantime try the Norco and see what I find of it – it’s on sale at the moment… but thanks for highlighting that it’s really nothing negative with the bike, just not a brand known for road bike!
Any additional comments appreciated!
dreamlx10
http://www.giant-bicycles.com
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/2014.liv.giant.avail.composite.3/15012/66782/Only £1000, well worth a look.
If people have steered clear
If people have steered clear of any comments on the Norco, its probably because its relatively unknown. Norco evokes thoughts of mountain bikes, long travel, Canadian North Shore etc etc – not perhaps road bikes.I don’t think you will notice that ‘cheap carbon’ is ‘cheap’. Unless you can compare it back to back with expensive carbon. Carbon will make the road bumps and general chatter feel muted and slightly less harsh. Cheap or not, that should be a ride characteristic most carbon bikes will exhibit. Bikes like the cheapest Specialized Tarmac are close to what they were riding not too long ago on the pro circuit. There’s a few sacrifices to keep the price down, but it would still be a good ride. Ditto Trek Madone.
Ah ok, apologies if that came
Ah ok, apologies if that came across as patronising then! I don’t know anything about the Norco, but from the other bikes I’ve ridden, I wouldn’t go for carbon at £1500. Admittedly, I only paid £1600 for a good carbon bike (Trek Madone 4.5), but that was reduced from it’s usual price of £2k. The big overlap of good aluminium and cheap carbon means that at £1500ish, I’d be looking more at a good alu bike.Alternatively, do you have a branch of Edinburgh Bicycle co-op nearby? They have the titanium Van Nicholas Ventus at about £1500, and titanium is a different handling feel again.
Actually, talking of my discounted bike, what’s your timescale for a decision? Shops start to apply the discounts around September/October time to make way for the next year’s stock, so that’s worth bearing in mind.
Finally, (sorry to introduce ANOTHER option!) you could spend, like, £300 on a cheap aluminium bike, ride the nuts off it until you have firm opinions on all the little details I mentioned, then blow £2k on a seriously nice piece of kit! Cervelo R3 105, anyone?!
chiv30, I see the point and
chiv30, I see the point and agree with the idea of going for an ALU frame full 105, but the ones I like the look of and that fit me are not currently available on my size. 🙁Thanks ‘Welsh boy’ for your comments..
mtbtomo, thanks for more details on HM carbon.
Charliegr555, I haven’t found a WSD boardman, perhaps I did not look into it well enough but thought they were all larger frames and men’s specific geometry?
crazy-legs, so would £1500 be considered a cheap carbon frame, then? Where do we draw the line of what cheap is? Would a good price be a minimum of £2K as mtbtomo suggests?
notfastenough, thanks for the comprehensive list of items. I have got most of these items, except for the winter clothing, pedal and shoes but I do get your point, it’s not just the bike…. Some of the stores where I went to see the £2K bikes did offer to include shoes+pedals on the bike price (GIANT) and I’m not considering something expensive to start with anyway.. but I am not completely in love with the green colour of this GIANT frame, unfortunately. I think your comments about starting cheap and then using the bike for a winter bike are very sensible, if it wasn’t for my lack of storage space :(, but I do agree, it will be hard to get ‘the perfect bike’ to start with. In any case, I think the NORCO does accept mudguards, so maybe it would be worth going for a cheap carbon to start with, assuming 1500 is cheap? I loved the Ribble sportive bianco and would go for it, this is my frame type and colour, but unfortunately, also out of stock on my size 🙁
So everyone steered away of any specific comments about the Norco.. any bad feedback or is it just an unknown bike?
Thanks again!
Quick question – £2k is a lot
Quick question – £2k is a lot for a first bike, but have you budgeted for all the other stuff? I ask because if this is your first road bike, then I’m assuming you don’t have the rest.As a starter, think about:
Shoes and pedals (they aren’t usually included with the bike)
Helmet (should you choose to wear one, but sssh don’t start a helmet debate round here!)
Jersey, base layer, shorts, gloves, armwarmers
Waterproof jacket
bottles and cages x 2
Track pump (don’t underestimate the difference between a mini-pump and a track pump, it’s wise to have both so you can get a proper amount of pressure in the tyres before you go out)
Saddlebag with inner tube, multitool, tyre levers etcThen assuming you’re hooked (you will be!), you’ll want winter jersey and tights and maybe a jacket for the cold. Plus you’ll start wanting bits like a Garmin.
Then there’s the bike. The more you ride, the more you notice what you like and dislike. Before you know it, you’ve decided that the handling of the frame isn’t quite what you hoped, the saddle’s too narrow, the bars drop a bit too far, you don’t like the bar tape and the brakes are a bit grabby for your tastes. This is so subjective that I don’t think spending more initially mitigates any of it, so you spend more making it ‘yours’. Ribbles are well-regarded, so in your shoes I’d spend up to £1k for one with mudguard mounts. Get to know it (and you), then when you feel like you have a better understanding of what kind of bike you *really* want, fit the mudguards to the first one and make that your winter bike, while taking delivery of something fast which suits you really well and which you now have the fitness to do justice! 😀
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