A driver who told a cyclist “I’ll f*ck*ng kill you” after the rider complained about a close pass has been fined.
Lewis Ellis, aged 22, admitted using threatening or abusive words or behaviour towards cyclist Philip Carter, reports The Leader.
Wrexham Magistrates’ Court heard that Ellis, driving a BMW, made a close pass on Mr Carter on Queensway in the town in North Wales.
Rhian Jackson, prosecuting, told the court that following the overtaking manoeuvre, the cyclist raised his hand and shouted, “What was that about?”
Further along the road, he passed Ellis’s vehicle and told the motorist that he had passed him too closely.
Ellis subsequently passed the cyclist again, shouting at Mr Carter to pull over, and then parking up and getting out of his car to wait for the rider.
Afraid he would be assaulted, the cyclist did not stop, instead riding on, but Ellis drove past him again, shouting: “Pull over – I’ll f*ck*ng kill you.”
Ellis eventually drove off after Mr Carter told him that he was filming what was happening on his GoPro camera.
Defending Ellis, Euros Jones said: “He will say there was an element of provocation and that he passed leaving plenty of room. But there is no excuse for his actions – he saw red.”
Ellis was fined £120 by magistrates and was also told to pay £85 costs and a £34 victim surcharge.
34 thoughts on “Fine for driver who threatened to kill cyclist”
Defending Ellis, Euros Jones
Defending Ellis, Euros Jones said: “He will say there was an element of provocation and that he passed leaving plenty of room.
I’m willing to bet that, no there wasn’t and no, he didn’t.
Still, at least he was punished with a massive deterant of…oh, wait, hang on…
Kendalred wrote:
I’m not sure how telling someone they passed you too closely is ‘provocation’ nor why anyone would say you’d passed too closely if you had left ‘plenty of room’. But maybe that’s just me.
Some people don’t like having
Some people don’t like having their behaviour called out by strangers, just looking at someone funny, or even just looking can be perceived as a challenge. Such people should be disbarred from operating dangerous equipment and probably not allowed outside without adult supervision.
Mungecrundle wrote:
Some people? You mean anyone driving, surely.
Steve K wrote:
But cyclists are mental, there’s no telling what they’ll do to provoke a fight.
That should have led to a
That should have led to a temporary driving ban (6 months?) as he’s clearly not emotionally equipped to deal with the stress of driving. A bit of time away from the wheel would likely be good for his blood pressure etc.
Quote:
I don’t think that’s the encouragement to obey him that he thinks it is…
So no points on his license
So no points on his license then and an angry man that’s easily triggered and may well have mental health issues is allowed to jump in a killing machine every morning. What a joke.
Well no, it wasnt prosecuted
Well no, it wasnt prosecuted as a driving offence,not even the close pass, even if the driving part was a factor, it’s just a standard public order offence.
Although you can get a ban
Although you can get a ban for any offence
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/6/section/146
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/6/section/147
In theory, in practice though
In theory, in practice though…the defence would argue the car was parked up and the defendant got out of the car, so a driving ban wouldnt be appropriate 🙂
I do wonder whether the
I do wonder whether the ‘Threatening behaviour’ on his record will have a greater impact than 3 points on his license that absolutely nobody will take any notice of. Future employers for example? I’m not an expert, perhaps others are better placed to advise on this
Man on bike with a mass of <
Man on bike with a mass of < 100 kg provokes man in car with a mass of >1500 kg and speed of 160 kph.
These cyclists are scary folk, maybe they could help out in Afghanistan.
‘the cyclist raised his hand and shouted, “What was that about?”’
I’d bet a good sum of money that the driver did not hear that at all and gleaned it from the footage.
Provoked him by being a cyclist.
hirsute wrote:
They already have, they just defeated the entire arrayed western forces. You’ve heard of the cycling Taliban……
Captain Badger wrote:
Where do I join?
eburtthebike wrote:
You already have. Now go and jump a red light….
Had something similar
Had something similar yesterday, on a 30 mph dual carriageway having just joined from an island a car was not dangerously close, but closer then they needed to be for the road width. I motioned about width and the driver suddenly slowed down with the passenger window opening. I slowed down hoping they would drive on but it is obvious they wanted to chat so I drew alongside. “What was that all about?” from the driver, “you could have moved over more, you were abit close, it is not like the road isn’t wide enough” was my reply, he said something else and then said about “should have been more to the left” (I was riding secondary about a metre out). They then started to draw closer and I said I have a camera and it will be sent onto the Police if they get any closer which seems to make them go away.
Of course it being a city centre they were then stuck in traffic about 100 yards further on so I filtered past as quickly as possible giving myself dooring room clearance in case. They then went down a right turn only lights lane twice to “beat” the traffic. TBH I wasn’t going to do anything with the footage until then so it is being sent onto WMP to ignore if they want.
I had similar happen to me
I had similar happen to me near Cannock in Staffordshire.
The fella ended up with a broken nose and fat lip.
We’re not all 60kg Colombian climbers.
S13SFC wrote:
The fella ended up with a broken nose and fat lip.
We’re not all 60kg Colombian climbers.— S13SFC
I had a guy threaten to get out of his car and “beat the shit out of” me.
I looked at my watch, looked at him, and said “I have time.” He left.
‘Wrexham Magistrates’ Court
‘Wrexham Magistrates’ Court heard that Ellis, driving a BMW’
We often talk about confirmation bias on here and how the standards of reporting in the mainstream media, what’s said etc, influences how we are perceived and here we are doing exactly the same thing!
The car he is driving is not remotely relevant to him being a knob. I see in the main, good road users, but the occasional knob, they could be in any type of car, van, bus, lorry or even (dare I say it) on a bike! Yes – some of us are knobs too.
The car he is driving is not
The car he is driving is not remotely relevant to him being a knob
I disagree with that- the association is a lot closer than ‘remote’. This standard-issue nutter BMW driver claimed to have given me ‘a metre and a half’, threatened to ‘f*****g flatten me’ and ‘you will get knocked off’. No swearing from me, and all on immaculate video. Lancashire Constabulary is trying to ignore it, but I’m not letting them. It happened over a month ago, and apparently they haven’t yet found out who was driving.
I would suggest looking up
I would suggest looking up ‘confirmation bias’. If you’re struggling I sell learning content on the subject.
No but it’s very relevant to
No but it’s very relevant to the evidence being presented to identify the defendant specifically, rather than some random bloke the prosecution have got a grievance against. Witnesses may be called to describe how they saw this make of car being driven in a particular way, and identify the defendant as the driver.
Any confirmation bias about the piece of car information is solely down to the person interpreting it that way.
Awavey wrote:
What an absolute crock! We’re not referring to any criminal proceedings here but how these things are reported and how that in turn influences how groups of people are viewed. I’m pretty certain that the police would be using simething unique (hopefully!) to identify the driver – I dunno, maybe the registration number?
It’s exactly the same as stating ‘the cyclist. who wasn’t wearing a helmet’ as if that is somehow relevant. You’re simply projecting your bias.
“Wrexham magistrates court
“Wrexham magistrates court heard that Ellis driving a BMW…”
Sounds like evidence being presented in a criminal proceeding to me, the reporter writing up the case for the Leader is simply reporting the facts as they were presented to the court,which is standard practice.
Or would you rather theyd written well someone was in court today for something or other,but the details arent important.
Any bias interpreted by stating factually what type of car the motorist was driving, or what the cyclist was wearing or reporting those details, is yours and yours alone.
Do you know that’s what was
Do you know that’s what was presented at court or how the reporter reported it?
If the former maybe the prosecutor, Rhian Jackson, needs a lesson or two as well as you.
Gimpl wrote:
We need more knobs to get out riding bikes. I’d much rather see a knob spend a bunch of money on a racing bike with all the bling and then cycle around everywhere than see the same knob driving a car.
Gimpl wrote:
A knob is more likely to drive a knobby car. Any car that is designed to put (unnecessary for purpose) performance above 3rd party safety could be considered knobby. Most vehicle manufacturers do this, (note the absence of speed limiters – I believe Volvo have recently announced that they are limiting theirs to over 100mph) so it is merely a question of degree.
BMW, Audi and Merc pride themselves on vehicles that are overspecced performance-wise – they even market themselves so. This is to attract the section of the market that wants overspecced performance without consideration of 3rd party safety.
Knobby car, knobby driver….
Knobby is as knobby does, no?
Knobby is as knobby does, no?
[But seriously – what’s all this knobbery on New Year’s Eve?? Let’s aim for a knob-free 2020!]
Flintshire Boy wrote:
Happy New Year FB, and here’s to a better one than ’19!
Hi guys,
Hi guys,
I am the cyclist in this incident. This is my first post on the site. I have recently uploaded the whole video onto YouTube for public viewing.
I’d welcome any further comments.
As I’ve said in the blurb I submit a lot of video evidence to North Wales Police via Op Snap and to be fair to them they are very proactive and do take action.
Sadly it can be as frequently as once every 2/3 rides.
I’d recommend that every cyclist gets a handlebar or helmet mounted camera, you really can’t be too careful out there, especially in light of the way that some drive.
Stay safe!
Nice work, though shame that
Nice work, though shame that the driver only got a fine – I’d prefer driving bans for aggressive idiots like that.
What a pyscho.
What a pyscho.
And people like that are free to roam the streets.
There’s some moron below
There’s some moron below claiming that the car variety is irrelevant and it’s just a myth. Active cyclists and e-bikers are fully aware that BMW drivers are over-represented in the group of nutter drivers threatening violence against cyclists.