A 75-year-old cyclist has criticised what he believes was the “wrong-headed” decision to fine him almost £300 for allegedly crossing a stop line at a red light, insisting that he was simply making sure he was in a “safe place” and “following best practice for cyclists at traffic lights”.
However, Surrey Police have said that the cyclist “had cut up through the middle” of traffic on the road before stopping beyond the line, and then proceeded to “start off prior to the lights changing to green”.
But the pensioner has since pointed out that his actions did not endanger or inconvenience any pedestrian or other road user, claiming that, during the period in which he was being spoken to by the officer, three motorists jumped the same red light.

John Frank was cycling from Farnham, Surrey, on his way to Godalming when he was stopped by a police officer after filtering past a queue of traffic on the Borough shopping street.
After making his way to the front of the queue, Frank then turned right on to South Street, where the officer pulled him over and issued him with a fixed penalty notice (FPN) of £50 for venturing beyond the white stop line at the lights.
“I was genuinely under the impression I had been pulled over for a red light offence but after having a long discussion I still didn’t know what the ticket was for,” the 75-year-old told the Farnham Herald about the incident.
“He suggested that if I wanted to turn right onto South Street that I should have waited by the right-hand kerb and then move into the middle. I suggested to him he knew nothing about cycling.
“I honestly just got into a safe place. I didn’t know what I had done wrong.”
> “Why pick on a lone female cyclist?” Cyclist slapped with £100 fine – for riding on a cycle path
Frank then decided to appeal the FPN by requesting a magistrates’ court hearing. Calling for leniency and denying that he had cycled through the red light, the cyclist described the charge and the officer’s conduct as “trivial and wrong-headed”.
“The officer claimed I had gone over a line, but I have no idea whether I did or not,” he continued. “What I do know, however, is that I neither endangered nor inconvenienced any pedestrian or other road user.
“I was following best practice for cyclists at traffic lights, which is to take up a position in front of the cars.”
Ahead of the court hearing, the case was reviewed by Surrey Police, who obtained full statements from the officers involved.
After being sent a Single Justice Procedure Notice, informing him that he was being prosecuted for a minor criminal offence, and that it was being considered by a magistrate and a legal advisor, Frank submitted a guilty plea through the post.
Like similar instances where we’ve seen cyclists appeal fixed penalty notices in the past, Frank’s original £50 fine was multiplied after the courts became involved. He was ultimately fined £128 and ordered to pays costs and charges of £171, a total of £299.
“I would have thought any magistrates would see a man on a bike in the middle is a challenge to safety, but what do I know?” he asked.
“The thing is, I stayed there at the junction afterwards and saw three cars go through the red light and three go over the white line,” he told the Herald, who also noted that two motorists ventured beyond the white line at a red light as they were speaking to Frank.
When approached for comment, a spokesperson for Surrey Police said: “The officer explained that the cyclist had cut up through the middle of the traffic and crossed the stop line while the lights were red, then start off prior to the lights changing to green and turn right into South Street.
“The fixed penalty notice for this offence is set nationally at £50 and Mr Frank would have been provided with a printout at the roadside informing him how to pay this sum or to request a court hearing if he did not agree with the allegation.
“The final financial penalty is obviously greater than it was at the initial point the FPN was issued, but there are often additional costs if a court hearing is requested – for example, all offences must have a victim surcharge applied – and individuals are warned of this on all paperwork.”
Frank isn’t the only cyclist who has complained about unfair fines in recent weeks. On Monday, we reported that a council in London was forced to backtrack over a fine issued to a cyclist, admitting the £100 fixed-penalty notice should never have been given to the rider, who was using a shared-use crossing when he was stopped by an enforcement officer.
Academic Dr Paulo Ceppi was cycling to Imperial College in London when he was stopped and fined as he rode across a shared-use crossing island in the middle of the A4 West Cromwell Road.

Despite signage clearly showing the crossing as a shared-use route, Dr Ceppi was stopped by an agent “hidden behind bushes” and issued a fixed-penalty notice at about 9am on 3 July.
Branding the decision to stop him as an “insidious, unjust tactic” to “trap” cyclists and make money, Ceppi said: “I thought I was fully within the law by cycling carefully on what looks like a shared pathway. I wouldn’t have wanted to run away — I don’t want to do something that seems criminal.”
The Standard reporter Ross Lydall raised the case with Kensington and Chelsea Council who have now admitted the fine was “issued in error” and would be cancelled, with an investigation underway to determine if more riders have been incorrectly fined at the location.
And last week, we reported that cyclists using a pavement to avoid what has been described as a “very dangerous” junction in the same borough are also being fined by private enforcement officers.
The fines have come after the council designated the area a Public Spaces Protection Order (PSPO) zone, allegedly without visible signage from the neighbouring borough or any public announcement to non-residents.





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44 thoughts on ““You know nothing about cycling!” Cyclist slapped with £300 fine for crossing stop line at red light – as pensioner slams “trivial and wrong-headed” charge”
The bloke’s clearly a tit.
The bloke’s clearly a tit.
Maybe. But I still have some
Maybe. But I still have some sympathy for him.
Filtering through traffic is perfectly legal.
At junctions, positioning oneself in primary position in front of motor vehicles is often the safest place to be – certainly far safer than hugging the kerb (plenty of examples of cyclists who stayed near the kerb subsequently being killed by lorries turning left.) This may mean proceeding beyond the stop line – many junctions have advanced stop lines for cyclists for exactly this reason. I remember reading about a case some years ago now when a cyclist similarly proceeded past the stop line and succeeded in getting his prosecution dropped – https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/02/case-against-london-cyclist-dropped-crossed-red-light-safety (*)
Similarly, proceeding before motor vehicles are released is often safer – again, many junctions nowadays have early release signals for cyclists, for exactly this reason.
As I have said before (in the context of discussions about whether red lights should apply to cyclists), I certainly believe there are plenty of situations where a cyclist can proceed through a red light in a manner that does not endanger or inconvenience anyone else, whilst being safer and more convenient for the cyclist. It seems likely that this was one such situation, where the cyclist could clearly see there were no pedestrians crossing.
I agree that there certainly appears to be a double standard at play, with the police showing far more lenience towards drivers who ignore traffic signals in one way or another, most commonly the “amber gamble”.
All that said:
Proceeding through a red light in front of a marked(?) police car and then being rude to the police officer is probably not a smart course of action.
* It is noted that that case revolved around the advanced stop box specifically marked and intended for cyclists, although I don’t see that that really has any implications on the letter of the law. I would also be a bit pedantic and point out that there is no prohibition on cars entering/stopping in the box – indeed, if the lights change to amber/red as the car is approaching, such that the driver cannot stop safely before the normal stop line, but can stop safely before the advanced stop line, then the driver MUST stop before the advanced stop line and will necessarily find themselves, perfectly lawfully, within the box. Not that this situation occurs regularly – I daresay the vast majority of occassions in which a car is in the advance stop box, it is because the driver unlawfully progressed beyond the first stop line when they should have stopped before it.
My local Deputy Council
My local Deputy Council leader can top that.
He went down the short traffic calmed High Street in his Land Rover Effete *, followed by an unmarked police car complete with blue lights flashing, at 65mph “after a night at the bingo”. He then pulled into a petrol station, and reversed into the police car.
He’s built up quite the criminal record over the last decade, the most remarkable being making a police phone call to 999 when arguing with his neighbour, and putting on a “keep … keep away from me with that knife” pantomime to the emergency operator.
Meanwhile his neighbours wife was videoing him with his phone. He is a complete wazzock.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-63010292
He is still in post.
* Also called Evoque, ie the poncey one.
(Update: God, the f*cker has another
twothree from the last 18 months. Non-disclosure of financial interest, and dangerous dogs, and obstructing the police investigatng dangerous dogs.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/nottinghamshire-b2490754.html
https://www.chad.co.uk/news/crime/ashfield-council-deputy-leader-tom-hollis-in-court-over-dangerously-out-of-control-dogs-5194984)
OnYerBike wrote:
But riding past the line while the light is red is not (was surprised to hear of defenses – lawyers, eh?) I don’t tend to do this myself – reasons below. But if I had done I hope I’d chalk this up to experience (in front of police, unlucky…)
Certainly “but motorists do it and invoke ‘safety’ when in fact they’d simply shown they were going too fast / hadn’t paid attention to road ahead / didn’t care to start stopping when light went amber” etc. Additionally cyclists doing this may well lead to conflict with pedestrians because “UK” (sure, less danger than a car etc. again).
Merely invoking “common sense” in these cases may not help. When it comes to police / the law / people’s opinions that is definitely more of a “popularity contest”. A driver merely failing to hit you when proceeding may be judged application of common sense by them where the actions of a cyclist doing the same (but much slower) might not be.
Lastly it may be safer for the cyclist – sometimes, it’s arguable.
I hope stuff like ASLs and cyclist early release lights eventually go away as we adopt “better practice” (mostly “what the Dutch do”). Because all these things generally appear on roads where most people simply wouldn’t ride, ever. “Polite, careful, law-abiding” drivers notwithstanding. And thus where the Dutch standard * would be to put safe, pleasant, convenient and completely separate cycling facilities in.
* They’re not perfect everywhere – they have not-pleasant-looking cycle lanes in places, “right turn on red for cyclists” albeit their examples look safer that what the UK would likely do – e.g. here. And mostly they have the gold standard – a totally safe right turn at the lights (because those lights are for motor vehicles and cyclists turning right don’t interact with motor traffic at all). Plus it’s commonly understood that pedestrians and cyclists can “negotiate” informal crossing safely and without stress.
Whilst certainly the way the
Whilst certainly the way the police describe the filtering is jarring, maybe when there’s a copper within stopping & FPN distance of you, who must have been visible for the whole approach to this junction, is the day you dont muck around with the “actually its much better if I do this instead you dont know cycling” stuff and just sit behind the lines, wait for the lights to change, and if you’re worried about the car next to you let them go first.
if the lights change to amber
if the lights change to amber/red as the car is approaching, such that the driver cannot stop safely before the normal stop line, but can stop safely before the advanced stop line, then the driver MUST stop before the advanced stop line and will necessarily find themselves, perfectly lawfully, within the box
There is a major comprehension deficit here!
Frankly, Mr. Frank, the law
Frankly, Mr. Frank, the law is as it written, not how you wished it had been written.
When asked which was the
When asked which was the biggest danger to the public, a car going over the stop line or a bicycle, a spokesperson for Surrey Police said: “Bicycle.”
I wonder if any drivers were fined for the same offence? If the police did that where I live, they could clear the national debt in about three weeks.
When asked which was the
When asked which was the biggest danger to the public, a car going over the stop line or a bicycle, a spokesperson for Surrey Police said: “Bicycle.”
I suspect this is written under ‘social media licence’ from interpretation of the text above, but if true ‘We want a reference/ link! ‘As you know, I’m always keen on information to the detriment of the police, but it has to be true and reasonably verififiable
wtjs wrote:
Poetic licence No 837249b: prose only, absolutely no rhymes.
You’ve got to be seriously
You’ve got to be seriously insane and / or stupid to think or say that a 2-wheel self-powered bicycle (ridden by a cyclist) is more dangerous than a motorised car-or-bigger (driven by a motorist).
You should have a read of the
You should have a read of the Southern Daily Echo. Apparently the biggest threats to civilization are bicycles, rented e-scooters, and brave young men crossing the channel on rubber rings.
Does feel like he was obeying
Does feel like he was obeying the intent, if not the word, of the law; assuming he didn’t ‘jump the red.’
“I was following best
“I was following best practice for cyclists at traffic lights”
Best practice according to Cyclecraft:
I think he’s missed the important bit of stopping before the line, so that the lights go green by the time you cross it.
I was wondering what best
I was wondering what best practice tells you to sit ahead of the stop line.
Surrey police must be making
Surrey police must be making millions from enforcing ASLs.
It doesn’t seem to apply in
It doesn’t seem to apply in this case but I would be interested to know what the police would do about a cyclist forced to cross the stop line because of law-breaking motorists. Frequently in London I will ride up the outside of a line of traffic towards a red light knowing that there is an advanced cyclist stop zone available, only to get there and find that it is illegally filled by a motor vehicle. I am then faced with a choice between breaking the law by crossing the stop line myself and waiting in front of the law-breaking driver or waiting behind the stop line to the right of the law-breaking driver and risking being hit by vehicles turning left (coming from my right). Is there any form of legal precedent that says it’s justifiable to ignore the law in the interest of one’s own safety when one has been put in danger by another law breaker?
I think you know the answer
I think you know the answer to that. Whatever the law may say, the driving offence would be ignored.
Yep, I guess. Reminds me of
Yep, I guess. Reminds me of many years back (checks Facebook, 2014) when a cyclist was tragically killed by a lorry at Elephant and Castle. The next day I happened to be riding on a bus through that locale at rush hour and saw three police cars parked up; excellent, they’re obviously reacting by monitoring driver behaviour, I thought. Amongst all the speeding, RLJ cars, two rozzers were sitting in their car eating burgers, two were harrassing a fairly innocent-looking tramp for drinking from a can in a prohibited area and two were having a go at a cyclist whose wheel was literally half a revolution over the stop line at a red light – the last I saw they had actually forced him to retreat maybe 50cms.
I’ve been in the same
I’ve been in the same position once when a motorcyclist was in the advanced stop box. He then spent the few minutes the lights were red berating me for jumping the red light, even though he’d done exactly the same thing himself.
Are motorcyclists aware that they aren’t permitted to use the cycling infrastructure?
bensynnock wrote:
The majority very much seem not to be (and I have no animosity towards them, having been one myself for a number of highly enjoyable years). I’ve given up challenging them in London as the response is nearly always either visor-down stare straight ahead deafness or threats of violence. Met Police refuse to do anything about it either, all camera submissions (and they’ve only been of ones where the motorcyclist has occupied the box in a way that will endanger cyclists) NFA’d.
I had a biker tell me the
I had a biker tell me the symbol means anything with 2 wheels can use the box.
Pfff ! That’s nowt! I’ve
Pfff ! That’s nowt! I’ve experienced a Lancashire traffic officer working for OpSnap Lancs tell me in writing that it’s legal for a vehicle to pass through a red light if the front of the vehicle has crossed the ASL when the light turns red. However, you can understand why he wasn’t bothered by these minutiae when LancsFilth thinks it’s legal for a vehicle driver to pass through a red light if he was 50 yards from the ASL/ Stop Line when it turns red
Hirsute wrote:
I’ve had a van driver telling me to move into the ASL when I’ve been on my Suzuki and they’ve refused to believe me when I’ve said it’s not allowed.
I had a biker tell me they
I had a biker tell me they were in the ASL because they were “forced to the front”. Maybe there is some special force that takes hold of motorcyclists when they are riding along the road and plonks them into the ASL involuntarily?
I do have slight sympathy for
I do have slight sympathy for that sometimes as you can be riding up the outside of a slow-moving line of traffic and then the lights change and you find yourself without a gap to get back in, so it’s a choice of inside the cycle box or stop and wait in the oncoming traffic lane, but that’s poor roadcraft, they should be anticipating that when approaching lights and have a plan to avoid it. And of course the vast majority aren’t “forced” in at all but roar up the outside of the traffic safe in the knowledge that the cycle box is there to bail them out. Extra points for the ones who squeeze into the gap between the front car and traffic furniture and then stop there so that any cyclist following behind can’t access the box and refuse to move on the grounds that doing so would make them roll over the stop line, something they’ve already done.
I’d put this all in my other
I’d put this all in my other comment but:
There is precedent for a prosecution being dropped in the circumstances you describe. Strictly speaking this isn’t legal precedent – the CPS merely decided that it wouldn’t be in the public interest to proceed. AIUI, to the letter of the law the cyclist could still have been found guilty. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/02/case-against-london-cyclist-dropped-crossed-red-light-safety
I would also point out that it is not illegal for a motor vehicle to merely be in the advanced cyclist stop zone. If the lights change to amber as the driver is approaching, such that the driver cannot safely stop before the first stop line, but can safely stop before the advanced stop line, then the driver MUST do so, and their motor vehicle will then end up stopped in cyclists’ zone. Of course, I won’t for a minute pretend that this is happens on a regular basis – I am well aware that the majority of vehicles that stop in the advanced cyclist stop zone could have stopped before the first stop line and illegally chose not to, and a driver who genuinely could not safely stop before the first stop line is more likely to gun it through the junction rather than stopping before the advanced stop line. But as a point of law, merely discovering a motor vehicle in the advanced cyclist stop zone is not proof that the driver acted unlawfully.
Rendel Harris wrote:
In law there’s a defence of necessity (“duress of circustances”). If you’re threatened with death or serious injury then you can break the law to avoid the harm.
AIUI the threat needs to be real and immediate, and breaking the law is the only option available to avoid the threat. So if you cycling towards traffic lights, they turn red and you realise the car behind you isn’t stopping then you can jump the red light. I don’t think you can jump a red light to prevent something that might happen, so it wouldn’t be applicable to the situation you described.
In law there’s a defence of
In law there’s a defence of necessity (“duress of circustances”)
In the same way as the only interest the police/ courts show in Hi-Viz, lights, helmets etc. is when a cyclist doesn’t have them (if he does, they don’t count against the motorist at all) in the cause of ‘blaming the victim’, the only interest they would show in this ‘necessity’ would be when the cyclist didn’t exercise it and get out of the way when the BMW speeds through the red light and hits him, thus making the collision the cyclist’s fault
A few days ago as I had been
A few days ago as I had been filtering down the outside of stationary traffic before light I moved back in when the light went green, though still just in from the centre line as I knew the light would change back quickly. Sure enough when there were just 3 cars in front of me the lights went red. I went down the outside only to see the leading driver, travelling slowly, make no attempt to stop before the advanced stop box, so filling it. I thus had to choices – sit alongside him (drivers often turn right here) or roll over the advanced stop line, which is of course illegal. I did consider reporting him for such a blatant offence, but decided against it as the police would be more likely to prosecute me based on my own, blatant video evidence!
Jakrayan wrote:
Well – actually you had several options. Unless you were riding alongside the lead driver all the way without realising what was happening you could cut in behind them. Even if you didn’t realise until you were both there you could ride / walk your bike to position behind them if the preceeding vehicle had left space, or walk either behind or in front of them to the side of the road to consider your options further. All legal – sure, not 100% safe but maybe safer than chancing it in a race off the lights with a motorist potentially turning across you?
That’s if you choose to filter (on either side). And of course using a cycle lane on the left will also automatically put you in that position. So it’s either simply occupy the lane you need when coming up to lights * OR filter and be prepared to “choose your poison” if the ASL is full.
Certainly the motorists shouldn’t be in the ASL – but as others have said they could be there through driving legally. (Although I’m happy in the majority of cases it’s either “don’t care” or lack of observation).
ASLs aren’t good cycle infra at all [1] [2] [3] **. Yes there is a rationale for them – but not even all current road cyclists think they’re helpful. Never mind those who they are perhaps mostly designed for e.g. the people who currently simply won’t ride on busy / multi-lane roads!
* Which of course probably won’t please some drivers and may involve trying to negotiate your way across lanes of motor traffic / into a line – not pleasant.
** I think the quote “ASLs make sense in that perfect, ideal world where the Highway Code is set … [but are in fact] a distraction from the bigger picture” summarises this. Even UK TRL reports note that ASLs eg. are “frequently not respected by other road users and show little safety benefit” though they add “although the research in this area is particularly limited.”
Plus like all “paint interventions” which motor vehicles drive over, they fairly soon become so worn that motorists might be forgiven for not noticing them…
Meanwhile, in Lancashire,
Meanwhile, in Lancashire, this RLJ practice is completely legal for motor vehicles- must be, because the police never take any action at these lights at Garstang
https://upride.cc/incident/kn13aus_knausmotorhome_doubleredlightpass/
https://upride.cc/incident/a15tjv_bmwm4_redlightpass/
https://upride.cc/incident/fh16vfa_rrover_redlightcross/
Grimsby PSPO unenforceable
Grimsby PSPO unenforceable (upto July 2025)?
I questioned whether the PSPO was worded correctly, was I right or was I right?
Mr Anderson wrote:
Ah the old double negative clause; prohibiting ‘no cycling’ obviously means cycling is actively encouraged. In fact, if you are not cycling, you should expect a fine – a big one.
Are they going to repay 3
Are they going to repay 3 years worth of fines?
Well I agree with Frank here.
Well I agree with Frank here. I often roll safely through a red light. However, in the unlikely event I get collered for it, I will just pay the £50 – it’s the cost of ‘doing business’ as it were.
If it’s non endorsed and won
If it’s non endorsed and won’t go on my licence, I’d just pay. The magistrates will have no support for cycling and as we’ve seen the fine is inflated.
I agree with him entirely but it’s not going to get traction in the system.
if it’s a junction I’m familiar with and know its timings I just get off and walk, remounting round the corner and get on my way.
The fine for being in front
The fine for being in front of the white line sounds more like ‘bloody cyclist getting in front of those poor drivers, I’ll have the bastard’. Virtually every ASL I encounter on my commute there will be a driver stopped in it, intentionally to prevent being behind a cyclist for another 5 seconds before they encounter a traffic jam anyway. Policeman was a wanchor
Of all the 30 years I’ve
Of all the 30 years I’ve cycled as a commuter and long distance, I have never once dreamed of braking any highway law including going through red lights. To insinuate it is almost good practice is just so wrong
FileIndienne wrote:
Presumably you spent several of those years patiently waiting for lights which don’t detect cyclists to change…?
I’m not one for disagreeing with “red should mean stop behind the line”. But the laws as framed are not all made with consideration for cyclist safety. Especially when confronted with the reality of a significant number of motorists who do not follow the rules and/or aren’t minded to be either careful or courteous around vulnerable road users.
Again I don’t think this kind of thing should be considered general good practice – but in fact the law allows for “necessity defences”.
I hope for a future where we adopt better philosophies of public space and infra design practice so this kind of debate becomes largely irrelevant. And we realise that letting large motor vehicles and vulnerable road users “share space” is usually a recipe for the former to intimidate the latter off the roads. Or cyclists to adopt “ignore the rules in favour of preserving my skin” practices.
I suspect the chap in the article could have waited though, and probably should have just taken their punishment.
FileIndienne wrote:
I’ve been cycling for more than 40 years as a commuter and long distance and I pride myself on my roadcraft and adhering to the law but I absolutely wouldn’t say that there hasn’t been one single time in all those years that I have inadvertently through carelessness or a lapse of concentration or just on a technicality broken a single law, because I’m human (loosely speaking). I find it hard to believe that anybody else could honestly say that either. Don’t you find your halo a little bit heavy to carry on the bike?
Rendel Harris wrote:
You should both take a well-deserved break!
Their employers may not agree
Their employers may not agree, if it’s already taken them that long to turn up to work.
mdavidford wrote:
It was taking that job in Brigadoon that started the problem.