Near Miss of the Day 255: Lorry driver in very close pass

CXR94Di2 wrote:

I

The 10mph is really quite silly, it should be for stationary objects, then a vehicle is allowed to pass over the white line, when safe.

 

 

 

The 10mph thing makes sense to me, the legth of road and time taken is significantly reduced so the manouvre can often be done safely within the road visible. If this guidance wasn't in place it would even be difficult to pull over the lines to pass a pedestrian

To me the problem as usual is not to do with innappropriate legislation but is due to selfishess and impatience of drivers which is backed up by indifferent law enforcment and poor driver education

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

 

 

In any case unless you have a really accurate speedo you won't necessarily know the accurate speed of the cyclist even if you are keeping equidistance behind them to make that call. The 10mph speed seems somewhat arbitrary though I accept it's obviously a rule from a long time ago so probably took into account the fact that the average family motor took a significant period longer to accelerate and get up to xx mph.

 

IIRC the law changed about 15 years ago with regard to overtaking on double-white lines. Prior to that no crossing (of the lines) was allowed.

zero_trooper wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

 

 

In any case unless you have a really accurate speedo you won't necessarily know the accurate speed of the cyclist even if you are keeping equidistance behind them to make that call. The 10mph speed seems somewhat arbitrary though I accept it's obviously a rule from a long time ago so probably took into account the fact that the average family motor took a significant period longer to accelerate and get up to xx mph.

 

 

IIRC the law changed about 15 years ago with regard to overtaking on double-white lines. Prior to that no crossing (of the lines) was allowed.

TBH I thought it was well before that but more likely I forgot, that said I was reading comments about this some while back and a gent who was driving in the early 70s seemed to recall that rule back then but either way it's a figure they seemed to pull out of the hat, I guess they had to pick a number I suppose.

it's an improvement from the absolute but it's still flawed so far as to put people on bikes (and other motorists) in danger when the idiots are incapable of making a simple judgement!

Edit: I'm wondering if it was the Traffic Sign regs that were changed in 2002 to reflect the double whites but the 10mph thing was already around before that. I'll ask on CUK if I can be bothered.

zero_trooper wrote:

 

IIRC the law changed about 15 years ago with regard to overtaking on double-white lines. Prior to that no crossing (of the lines) was allowed.

The 1994 regulations have the same 10mph rule, so it's at least 24 years:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1994/1519/part/I/crossheading/road-m...

The 1964 regulations aren't online (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1964/1857), but I thought the rule was the same when I took my test, which was well before 1994

But while the average car might be more powerful, it's also heavier, and laws aren't just for the average case, so I'm not convinced that's a good reason for it to change.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

it's either safe and there's enough room to overtake or there isn't, lines or no lines.

Ah, but it is a great deal of effort to move that steering wheel more than one or two degrees clockwise and far too hard for people to do that while also checking FB etc... Didn't you get the memo? 

brooksby wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

it's either safe and there's enough room to overtake or there isn't, lines or no lines.

Ah, but it is a great deal of effort to move that steering wheel more than one or two degrees clockwise and far too hard for people to do that while also checking FB etc... Didn't you get the memo? 

Given most of the gizmos in motors nowadays that compensate for shit driving surely even with social media checking they can cope with all that hardship of moving the steering wheel?

I actually think it's improving overall but there are always fucktards to drag back the standard and sadly when it's at least a couple every single day it's more often that that threat is what sticks in your head. Then there's the usual stuff that isn't ideal but you've got used to that shit so it doesn't phase you too much but you still think, you were half assed when you could have just gone that little bit further to make it good/safe.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

it's either safe and there's enough room to overtake or there isn't, lines or no lines. I cycle quite a few routes that have double whites and often I'm more than happy for drivers to go across them to overtake when to me at least (and thus should to them) I can see that it is safe and there is enough time/space to overtake and pull in without causing issues.

Double whites and indeed much of the road restriction signage incl speed limits are for idiots and selfish/dangerous twats, but the vast majority ignore them anyway so are virtually pointless when there's no-one to penalise them and even if caught has no effect on changing behaviour because the penalties are pathetic even if you get one at all!

If I'm doing 15/20/25mph and a motor overtakes me on the other side of a solid line leaving me enough of a safe gap and does not impinge on oncoming traffic or endanger others, where is the problem?

Of course I'm not saying that all circumstances are going to allow that but there are quite a few I've come across where motors try to squeeze inside the solid line when there was time and space to go over the lines and make a clean AND safe pass.

In any case unless you have a really accurate speedo you won't necessarily know the accurate speed of the cyclist even if you are keeping equidistance behind them to make that call. The 10mph speed seems somewhat arbitrary though I accept it's obviously a rule from a long time ago so probably took into account the fact that the average family motor took a significant period longer to accelerate and get up to xx mph.

It's all about the forward planning and attitude to safety, sometimes dumbing it down (so telling you not to overtake at x point instead of making your own judgement not to) actually creates as many problems when certain types won't follow the dumbed down rules anyways!

The double white lines hugely improve safety at night, where often the road appears to be clear ahead due to either rolling hills or hidden bends causing drivers to misjudge their overtakes because they are simply looking for headlights or the absence of them rather than carefully reading the road.

burtthebike wrote:

Cyclist's fault for wearing that stuff that blends into the background so that the drivers can't see them until they are too close.

What cyclist?