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news
Lansdown Lane descent on Strava.pngStrava removes leaderboard on descent in Bath where four were killed in lorry crash
Strava has removed the leaderboard for a descent in Bath on a road where four people lost their lives in a crash in 2015 involving a lorry with defective brakes. Two men convicted of manslaughter in connection with that incident are due to be sentenced today.
The ride-sharing network took the action after local newspaper the Bath Chronicle contacted it to express concerns about riders averaging speeds of nearly 48 miles an hour while coming down Lansdown Hill, the site of the tragedy in February 2015.
The segment, called Fast Descent and now hidden from public view, is 1.1 kilometres long with an average downhill gradient of 11 per cent. It is similar to the segment pictured above, Lansdown Lane Descent, which according to Strava has been “flagged as hazardous.”
It runs from close to the junction of Lansdown Road and downhill into Upper Weston, where nearly two years ago lorry driver Phillip Potter, aged 20, lost control of the heavily-laden Scania truck he was driving due to its brakes being poorly serviced.
Four-year-old Mitzi Steady was killed instantly when the lorry struck her. The child’s grandmother sustained serious injuries. Three occupants of a car – Robert Parker, aged 59, Philip Allen, 52, and Stephen Vaughan, 34 – were also killed.
Mr Potter, who had only been working for the haulage firm for a few days when the fatal crash happened, stood trial at Bristol Crown Court late last year on charges of causing death by dangerous driving.
However, he was cleared after telling the court he would never have got behind the wheel of the lorry had he known the brakes were defective.
Matthew Gordon, 30, the boss of the haulage firm he was working for, and mechanic Peter Wood, 55, were each convicted of four counts of manslaughter through gross negligence.
Today, Gordon was sentenced to seven years and six months in jail, while Wood was handed a prison term of five years and three months.
It’s therefore understandable why there is heightened sensitivity about road safety, given the location, and police have been targeting motorists who ignore width restrictions there, or break the speed limit.
The Bath Chronicle reports that prior to the Strava leaderboard being taken down, the fastest descent was undertaken at an average speed of 47.9mph.
The top 20 riders all averaged 41mph or faster, although the speed limit on half of the stretch of road is 20mph.
While cyclists cannot be prosecuted or fined for speeding, many would see riding at more than twice the speed limit as lacking consideration for others; indeed, Strava data shows that most riders who share their data on the network take the descent much more slowly, at an average speed of 17mph.
Strava told the Bath Chronicle: "We believe that it's critical for cyclists, runners and pedestrians to have respect for one another.
"If a member of Strava's athlete community feels that an entire segment is hazardous, the segment can be flagged. When this happens, all competitive aspects of the segment are removed, including the leaderboard.
"We encourage good behaviour within our community and hope our users act within the limits of the law and use common sense. That said, athletes are responsible for their own safety and the safety of those around them when they are riding or running.
"Our Stand With Us campaign outlines a code of conduct we expect all athletes who use Strava to follow. It's about respecting your own safety, that of those around you, and having the knowledge and common sense to follow the rules of the road.
"From a product perspective, we do not award achievements or permit segment goals for hazardous or downhill segments. Leaderboards on hazardous segments are hidden by default."
Strava has in the past removed leaderboards on flagged segments on locations such as the Bristol & Bath Railway Path, or the Regent’s Canal in London.
While the descent of Lansdown Crescent differs from those in that it is on a public highway, it does bring to mind two stories we have covered here on road.cc involving cyclists chasing the fastest time – or KOM – on a downhill stretch of road.
Both took place in California. William ‘Kim’ Flint died in 2010 when he lost control of his bike trying to regain his KOM on the descent of Grizzly Peak in the hills above Berkeley.
In 2013, San Francisco cyclist Chris Bucchere pleaded guilty to vehicular manslaughter relating to an incident the previous year in which he fatally injured a pedestrian as he rode through a red light at a busy intersection while trying to beat his own speed there.
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
Latest Comments
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Nobody is asking the rider to police the road, but for their own safety they should ride in a position appropriate to the conditions, in the clip...
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As a woman, this works great for me! My chain broke once, and a kind guy stopped with a chain breaker and sorted it all out for me. We stopped at a...
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Another vote for Shimano QRs....
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- thax1 1 hour 14 min ago
Same back then. Oh, also Codeine. https://www.dopeology.org/people/Sean_Kelly/
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Indeed - but it's no more inconsistent than our current road design - very often UK high streets are "for shopping" and also a busy through route....
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loads of parking
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33 comments
Here's a quote "This is just stupid. The leaderboard hasn't been removed, it is just hidden behind a disclaimer. "
why is there a leaderboard if its not competitive ?
Quite simple speedy bikers Set your time on this stretch but uphill. Going fast downhill is neither skillfull or reflecting any great fitness.
Anyway IMO using things like strava promotes competition on public roads which is wrong. If you want to race be in a marshalled race.
Utter tosh. Descending safely and quickly is a real skill. Sadly it is not one I have but that doesn't mean I write it off. Sometimes I marvel at just how quickly I can get dropped on technical descents by someone the same weight as me, just by them reading the road ahead and knowing exactly when/when not to brake, the best line and the safest way to use the weight they have. Great stuff!
Err, you do realise that nearly all races (whether road or TT) in the UK are "competition on public roads"? Strava can be abused but the majority of people using it do so for great personal motivaton and for recording rides. Sure, it can be abused and people can be complete arses...but in the majority of cases Strava has nothing to do with that.
Strava KOMs need to be taken with shovel of salt. Has anyone checked if these times look genuine? I've seen plenty of KOMs that are clearly not people on bicycles.
That said, I have also seen plenty of KOMs that look genuine and reckless. That said, if there's truck behind you with faulty brakes, going down a hill, then travelling as fast as you can is no bad thing.
Flag dodgy KOMs and rides. I've had to clean up a few last year on our local route. Just takes a sec and Strava do deal with it. A lot of the time it's just dodgy GPS data, not actually someone trying to KOM anything.
The driver is not one of those in jail.
Incident as it was avoidable, hence the 2 people in jail.
If 20-odd cyclists have gone above 20mph in the last 3 or 4 years, you can fairly confidently predict that at least 100x that many motorists have been doing significantly more.
Not that it excuses what is anti-social and dangerous behaviour
Just coming back to the verdict...they got what was it 7 and 5 years for killing 4 people with utter disregard to how their vehicles were maintaned in full knowledge that a loaded aggregate lorry was utterly lethal.
In other news:
Pissed man has fight on tube platform pushing bloke off the platform gets 10 years.
It is plain stupidity trying to break a record with almost 50 mph speeds on 23mm tires on public roads with a 20mph speed limit for cars that have much better braking ability. Its equal to organising Cannonball with pedals or a skiing descent on roads open to pedestrians, cyclists and drivers. Such actions can only increase the gap between cyclists and drivers.
you do realise it was a motorist not a cyclist which killed 4 people on this road. How about that for increasing the gap between cyclists and drivers, whatever that means..
edit, I guess the "gap" is motorist on one side, killing 1700 ish people a year, and cyclist not, is gap your talking about?
Dbl post.
The motorist was cleared. This tragic incident was not driver error. The 'gap' was not an issue here either.
guilty, not guilty, he was still behind the wheel of a vehicle which killed 4 people. "Tragic incident" almost suggest that there aren't two people start prison sentences tonight.
I haven't commented the lorry accident as it is totally irrelevant. My post is about any such road that you can achieve high speed on descent where cyclists exploit the fact that they don't have to obey speed limits. And yes we all have done it, but doing so in order to break a record it just sounds crazy to me.
There is law and common sense. All modern cars can stop from 45mph at around 40m, can a caliper brake road bike with skinny tires stop at a similar distance? I guess not. So when motorists see us misuse the law, they will misuse the law against us when they find an opportunity. The gap I am referring to is the hatred that some people will grow and as a result we have cyclists that hate drivers and vice versa. We cannot have neither cars only as we will all suffocate in our diesel and petrol fumes and we cannot have bicycles only as we will have to ride them all the way from Far East to bring them home. We do have to learn not to provoke drivers even if the road network is almost totally devoted to motor traffic and we do face a bunch of threats on our everyday commutes.
If we enhance the image of bicycle as a dangerous toy for lycra lovers, the people who just want to go to their work on their bike will face more motorists with anger, and the death toll that you are referring to as gap will become bigger and bigger.
The
Do you realise that you are arguing here for neurosis? There is no actual body of motorists, or body of cyclists - if you dent one car as you pass, it does not equate to another motorist somewhere else acting unreasonably...
There is no quantum of mass enmity between arbitrarily labelled groups of individuals!
Yes sure mate, there aren't any neurotic guys seeking for the slightest excuse to express their neurosis. Road.cc doesn't post videos of road rage with knives, punches and other courteous actions. And there aren't people who are looking for lame excuses to reduce our virtually inexistent cycling rights in favor of motor traffic. And my house is made of cake. And the roads are paved with flowers.
wow! either you've got it bad, or you've been riding around south central LA too long
About 25 years ago, I was going down there on the cheap steel Peugeot "racing bike" I'd got as a teenager.
My U-lock was mounted on the down tube, but it started to come out - I had to lean down to rescue it. 80km/h. One hand on the bars.
It's a deceptive hill.
I'm not that scared when descending (but I have more common sense in built-up areas, and lack the power to push downhill) but I'm amazed at the average speeds people are recording. Over 70 km/h??? WTAF???
Back then it was national-speed-limit down until either the farm, or the first junction on the right.
The people were killed by an out of control vehicle speeding down the hill
This strava segment has people competing to go down that same hill as fast as they can.
I'm not saying it's the end of the world, I'm just saying I can see why some in the area are pretty uncomfortable with that. The whole incident had a profound effect on many people- the fact that there is a big difference between a dipper truck with faulty brakes and someone on a bike is obvious. Those who witnessed the incident and continue to travel on that road will not be able to be so dispassionate about it. This is all pretty recent remember. Plenty of other hills to ride down.
Never mind the "there's no speed limit for bikes" stuff. Does no-one else thing it's a bit naff having people essentially racing down a hill where some people died horribly when a truck went out of control down it?
No direct connection, obviously- but I imagine that for a lot of people in the area this whole incident was pretty traumatic, even if they weren't involved.
I like a bit of downhill fun as much as the next man/woman (as long as he/she is also over 83kg) but can see why this has caused a bit of an issue.
Story distracts from the fact that this a major rat-run in/out of Bath that should never have a tipper truck on it (weight limit?). Why this particular descent? Bath is covered in descents where you can easily exceed the speed limit. They can't sort out the traffic, so go after the cyclists!
Lansdown Lane is a good test of climbing fitness; shame you end up with the rat-run cars stacked behind you.
Yep, there are KOMs for descents
There are, many have equalled my uncle's KOM at Beachy Head but none will beat it.
What is the kinetic energy comparison between a road bike and a tipper truck, anyway?
Sounds like the Bath Chronicle is just taking the opportunity to say, "Won't somebody think of the children?!?"
The tipper truck incident was terrible, and I am glad that the owners have got jail time (and a director disqualification) for it.
Can KOM times be based on descents?
There's a bit in the article that suggests this might be true.
Yes. KOMs apply to all segments whether uphill flat or downhill.
strava should follow the lead of veloviewer which excludes downhill segments from rankings. No on cares who can be most reckless on a descent.
even flat segments are somewhat meaningless as they often come down to who had the most fortunate tow.
Sadly they ignored you
I believe the only way to be prosecuted for speeding on a bike is to be charged with "pedalling furiously" and this is a catch all term they could attempt to have you for if they so desired.
I'm still at a loss as to why a story about dangerous lorry driving has anything to do with flagged Strava segments.
Locally we have one segment which goes across an A-Road with a traffic crossing. There really should be some extra community moderation allowed on Strava, recently I had every ride of mine flagged for some reason, perhaps some form of unknown grudge after poaching a KOM or something?
Rule 124 gives vehicles and their speed limits, the bicycle does not feature.
The 20mph limit is council derived and does not seem to state vehicle type, does this mean, even though it seems never to be enforced, that it might apply to bicycles? Just wondering.
5 years and 7 years. If only all haulage bosses could be sentenced in a similar way when one of their drivers screws up.
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