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LCC and LTDA agree on cyclist/taxi driver behaviour pact

Eight-point plan for road safety comprises advice for cyclists and taxi drivers

The London Cycling Campaign (LCC) and the Licensed Taxi Drivers Association (LTDA) have together agreed an eight-point plan for road safety. The plan comprises four pieces of advice for taxi drivers and four for cyclists.

The two seem unlikely bedfellows in that the LTDA has frequently campaigned against cycle infrastructure.

Last year it launched a judicial review of the East-West Cycle Superhighway, arguing a lack of planning permission, and it is currently campaigning to have a lane of motor traffic restored to Torrington Place and Tavistock Place instead of a bike lane.

This isn’t however the first time they have joined forces. Earlier this year they came together to call for action on illegal and dangerous levels of air pollution in the capital.

Announcing the new campaign, LCC chief executive, Ashok Sinha, said: “The London Cycling Campaign is pleased to join the LTDA and the City in this initiative. Every road user has a part to play in making our streets safer for all and by taking the steps set out today, cabbies and cyclists can help reduce the number of collisions on the city’s streets.”

The four points of advice for taxi drivers are:

  • Always check for cyclists before opening doors
  • Check for cyclists and indicate before performing U-turns or pulling in to pick up/drop off passengers
  • Check for cyclists when manoeuvring and stick to the speed limit
  • Check there is safe room to pass before overtaking cyclists

The four points of advice for cyclists are:

  • Always look out for taxis and avoid undertaking when a cabbie indicates to pick up/drop off a fare
  • Take account of the conditions and slow down on busy streets
  • Indicate clearly when making a turn and look out for other road users when overtaking or changing lanes
  • Have working lights for cycling in the dark

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

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26 comments

Avatar
Jackson | 496 posts | 6 years ago
2 likes

To be honest I find the standard of driving shown by most black cabs is better than that of general motorists (and much better than white vans). I do find it's mainly the older guys who have a chip on their shoulder about cyclists, Uber, bus lanes and the world in general.
With any luck all the cabs in London will be self-driving and electric in 5 years and we'll all breathe easier.

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muppetteer | 92 posts | 6 years ago
1 like

The attitude of LTDA drivers is appalling. The one who tailgated me down the Edgware Road in August shouting "Get the fuck off the road", then after stopping with the traffic, reved their engine then drove their taxi into me and pushed me a metre and a half with their vehicle doesn't help much. 

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Vid | 15 posts | 6 years ago
0 likes

I was also a motor cycle courier in London for 18+ years. If a stranger waves to you look out for a U turning cab. If you are cycling behind a cab look to see if a fare is sitting in the back. If it is stationary with a fare the doors may open on both sides and it won't be the driver opening them. The Highway code is a book of rules and advice...we all break rules...it's road craft that keeps you from harm but who teaches it ? Who remembers The Tuffty Club and the Cycling Proficiency test ? As a cyclist and motorcyclist, I know, regardless of who is at fault in an accident it's me that ends up battered and bleeding or worse. My mindset was if I had a near miss or crash it was my fault for not predicting it...there's a lot of idiots on the road and sometimes it's you.

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bikebot replied to Vid | 2105 posts | 6 years ago
1 like

Vid wrote:

 As a cyclist and motorcyclist, I know, regardless of who is at fault in an accident it's me that ends up battered and bleeding or worse. My mindset was if I had a near miss or crash it was my fault for not predicting it...there's a lot of idiots on the road and sometimes it's you.

Are you proposing we need more safety campaigns that focus on grannies and egg sucking, or do you think you're the only one on two wheels who is aware that you're vulnerable?

I'm being harsh, because I'm fed up of seeing this comment in the context of safety. It isn't helpful. Nor is using the word fault in the way that you have.

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racyrich | 369 posts | 6 years ago
3 likes

It's all very weird.

Firstly, 2 bodies agree that the people they represent should obey some normal traffic rules and regs. As opposed to not obeying them? Is that what they previously advocated?

Secondly,  in what way do these bodies actually represent the 2 groups? Who exactly does the LCC represent? And are all taxi drivers necessarily members of the LDTA?

Oh, and thirdly, I take it the taxis will continue their obligatory stopping in the advanced stop box for cyclists. I've never ever seen one miss the opportunity.

 

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StuInNorway | 417 posts | 6 years ago
3 likes

"Always check for cyclists before opening doors
Check for cyclists and indicate before performing U-turns or pulling in to pick up/drop off passengers
Check for cyclists when manoeuvring and stick to the speed limit
Check there is safe room to pass before overtaking cyclists"

 

Am I the only one finds it scary that the LTDA basicallyare admitting their drivers need a specific reminder to drive safely ?
 

Check before oopening doors (it's in the highway code, and dooring someone can get you prosecuted, IF the cyclist can persuade the Police to actually do something, with or without video evidence and 200 witnesses)
Look and indicate before doing a U-turn or stopping in a random place to pick up / throw out a punter.   If they need reminding of this, what corn flakes packet did they get their drivers licence from ?
Look before manoeuvering and stick to speed limits . . .  they need to actually write down NOT TO BREAK THE LAW AND SPEED ?
Check there is space to pass a cyclist ??  Admission that cabbies do unsafe passes "by default" ??

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davidtcycle | 81 posts | 6 years ago
2 likes

I worked as a motorcycle courier in London years ago when they first started and we had a problem with London black cabs turning deliberately in front of bikes. After a lot of crashes, we got together we some of the other couriers and decided if the taxis didn't need their wing mirrors them we would remove them.

Wing mirrors are surprisingly easy to break, just put out and twist. It took about a week but they got the message - don't mess with us

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WillRod | 268 posts | 6 years ago
5 likes

I stopped using taxis about 3 years ago.

I only used them for two years to ferry me to and from the train station while working away from home, but every single journey without fail, they would break the speed limits. One even said he would bar me from his taxi because I told him off for doing over 50 in a 30. 

The arrogance and impatience of them is horrifying. I ended up walking instead. Took another  25mins but saved me a few quid and saved my sanity.

I reckon that if regional towns had improved bus services, we could near enough remove taxis from the road altogether.

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bikebot | 2105 posts | 6 years ago
3 likes

Alternative take.

LCC and LTDA make agreement between one another as to which laws they think their members should obey.  Members of both organisations ignore them, and wish they'd get on with their respective jobs of campaigning for the stuff that matters.

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Jharrison5 | 146 posts | 6 years ago
5 likes

All covered in the Highway Code.

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brooksby | 12196 posts | 6 years ago
3 likes

Advice for cyclists #1 is only possible if the taxi actually indicates before their manoeuvre... And they don't, very often.

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psling replied to brooksby | 292 posts | 6 years ago
4 likes

brooksby wrote:

Advice for cyclists #1 is only possible if the taxi actually indicates before their manoeuvre... And they don't, very often.

 

Ah, but they will do now. It's advice for cabbies #2

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Sven Ellis replied to brooksby | 48 posts | 6 years ago
0 likes

brooksby wrote:

Advice for cyclists #1 is only possible if the taxi actually indicates before their manoeuvre... And they don't, very often.

Taxis should always indicate their intentions, and not enough do. But do you believe that taxi drivers are more delinquent in this respect than cyclists? Pick a junction, any junction...

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ktache replied to Sven Ellis | 5909 posts | 6 years ago
1 like

Sven Ellis wrote:

brooksby wrote:

Advice for cyclists #1 is only possible if the taxi actually indicates before their manoeuvre... And they don't, very often.

Taxis should always indicate their intentions, and not enough do. But do you believe that taxi drivers are more delinquent in this respect than cyclists? Pick a junction, any junction...

So one has to lose over half their steering and braking, and lose some power and balance, and the other has to flick a little lever that's right next to one of their hands.  Totally equivalent.

And lets not even start on the ability to do harm with a massive difference in kinetic energy.

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Morat replied to ktache | 349 posts | 6 years ago
0 likes

ktache wrote:

Sven Ellis wrote:

brooksby wrote:

Advice for cyclists #1 is only possible if the taxi actually indicates before their manoeuvre... And they don't, very often.

Taxis should always indicate their intentions, and not enough do. But do you believe that taxi drivers are more delinquent in this respect than cyclists? Pick a junction, any junction...

So one has to lose over half their steering and braking, and lose some power and balance, and the other has to flick a little lever that's right next to one of their hands.  Totally equivalent.

And lets not even start on the ability to do harm with a massive difference in kinetic energy.

 

If you're that bothered by making hand signals (which might save your life) then you could always rig up some yellow flashing indicators of your own....

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Sven Ellis replied to ktache | 48 posts | 6 years ago
0 likes

ktache wrote:

So one has to lose over half their steering and braking, and lose some power and balance, and the other has to flick a little lever that's right next to one of their hands.  Totally equivalent.

If you're riding a bike, you need to be able to signal your intentions to other road users such as  pedestrians and your fellow cyclists. If someone can't do that, they should go somewhere quiet and practise until they can.

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ktache replied to Sven Ellis | 5909 posts | 6 years ago
0 likes

Sven Ellis wrote:

ktache wrote:

So one has to lose over half their steering and braking, and lose some power and balance, and the other has to flick a little lever that's right next to one of their hands.  Totally equivalent.

If you're riding a bike, you need to be able to signal your intentions to other road users such as  pedestrians and your fellow cyclists. If someone can't do that, they should go somewhere quiet and practise until they can.

I signal Sven, I was just comparing the ease of signalling between the 2 modes of transport.

And are you really saying that you can brake as effectively with one hand rather than both?

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hawkinspeter replied to ktache | 12160 posts | 6 years ago
0 likes

ktache wrote:

Sven Ellis wrote:

ktache wrote:

So one has to lose over half their steering and braking, and lose some power and balance, and the other has to flick a little lever that's right next to one of their hands.  Totally equivalent.

If you're riding a bike, you need to be able to signal your intentions to other road users such as  pedestrians and your fellow cyclists. If someone can't do that, they should go somewhere quiet and practise until they can.

I signal Sven, I was just comparing the ease of signalling between the 2 modes of transport.

And are you really saying that you can brake as effectively with one hand rather than both?

Reminds me of the most recent RTC that I was involved in (last year some time). I was navigating a busy Bristol roundabout and indicating right. A big truck in front of me stopped and I hadn't left enough space (or not paying enough attention) to stop with just the rear brake. Luckily, I reduced speed enough so that I just bruised my forearm where I rolled into the back of him. (100% my fault by the way).

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hawkinspeter | 12160 posts | 6 years ago
4 likes

Seems reasonable.

I don't always follow the indicating rule when turning left as sometimes it can encourage vehicles to do a dangerous overtake maneouvre if they know that you're turning left whereas they'll hang back a little if they think you're going straight on.

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DaveE128 replied to hawkinspeter | 992 posts | 6 years ago
3 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

Seems reasonable.

I don't always follow the indicating rule when turning left as sometimes it can encourage vehicles to do a dangerous overtake maneouvre if they know that you're turning left whereas they'll hang back a little if they think you're going straight on.

Interesting thought.  When I'm driving (not in London, mind) I would be more likely to hang back if a cyclist indicates left and I'm going straight on and would otherwise overtake. However if I'm turning left I won't overtake them before the turn either way. Maybe I'm not thinking like a "must get in front" driver though...

I'd always try to signal with bike or car.

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DaveE128 replied to DaveE128 | 992 posts | 6 years ago
0 likes

duplicate post - sorry

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ChrisB200SX replied to DaveE128 | 1622 posts | 6 years ago
0 likes

DaveE128 wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Seems reasonable.

I don't always follow the indicating rule when turning left as sometimes it can encourage vehicles to do a dangerous overtake maneouvre if they know that you're turning left whereas they'll hang back a little if they think you're going straight on.

Interesting thought.  When I'm driving (not in London, mind) I would be more likely to hang back if a cyclist indicates left and I'm going straight on and would otherwise overtake. However if I'm turning left I won't overtake them before the turn either way. Maybe I'm not thinking like a "must get in front" driver though...

I'd always try to signal with bike or car.

Agree with both points, but I think that's a cyclist mentality that carries through to driving.

If you think about it, generally, there really shouldn't be a need to signal (to those behind) that you are intending to turn left.

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Beecho replied to ChrisB200SX | 427 posts | 6 years ago
2 likes

ChrisB200SX wrote:

DaveE128 wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Seems reasonable.

I don't always follow the indicating rule when turning left as sometimes it can encourage vehicles to do a dangerous overtake maneouvre if they know that you're turning left whereas they'll hang back a little if they think you're going straight on.

Interesting thought.  When I'm driving (not in London, mind) I would be more likely to hang back if a cyclist indicates left and I'm going straight on and would otherwise overtake. However if I'm turning left I won't overtake them before the turn either way. Maybe I'm not thinking like a "must get in front" driver though...

I'd always try to signal with bike or car.

Agree with both points, but I think that's a cyclist mentality that carries through to driving.

If you think about it, generally, there really shouldn't be a need to signal (to those behind) that you are intending to turn left.

yes there should. You're going to have to slow down significantly to turn left most of the time, and that alone is worth indicating. Anyway, even if taking the gentlest of turns, always indicate and indicate like you mean it.

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Sven Ellis replied to ChrisB200SX | 48 posts | 6 years ago
0 likes

ChrisB200SX wrote:

If you think about it, generally, there really shouldn't be a need to signal (to those behind) that you are intending to turn left.

How do you indicate your intentions to those in front of you - cyclists turning out of junctions, pedestrians crossing the road -  and not those behind?

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hawkinspeter replied to DaveE128 | 12160 posts | 6 years ago
1 like

DaveE128 wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Seems reasonable.

I don't always follow the indicating rule when turning left as sometimes it can encourage vehicles to do a dangerous overtake maneouvre if they know that you're turning left whereas they'll hang back a little if they think you're going straight on.

Interesting thought.  When I'm driving (not in London, mind) I would be more likely to hang back if a cyclist indicates left and I'm going straight on and would otherwise overtake. However if I'm turning left I won't overtake them before the turn either way. Maybe I'm not thinking like a "must get in front" driver though...

I'd always try to signal with bike or car.

It sounds like you're a considerate driver, so it's not people with your attitude that I'm worried about. I do typically try to indicate clearly, but there's some particular junctions that I deliberately try to make it look like I'm going straight ahead. It's places where I've had cars overtake me to turn left and underestimate my speed (it's a quick section of road), thus forcing me to brake.

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Gromski | 74 posts | 6 years ago
21 likes

Shouldn't this be headlined "LCC and LTDA agree on the bleeding obvious"?

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