Tubeless Woes

I fitted my surly dirt wizards last weekend, mud specific and a pig on tarmac, doable.  When I put a new front on over the summer I needed to retape the rear, discovered I had two and a half wraps of tape, which explained the impossibility of moving the bead and the deafening noise when popping in place.  Removed all and replaced with one and a half, wrapping being a nightmare of course.  Tyre popped on with much less terror and no need for the soap, and I had some scwalbe stuff specific for the task too. Changed the tape off the front, after removing a wrap last year and found that the lbs  had used Lecky tape, little more flexible and big dents in the spoke holes, but nice to know, understandable as 50mm tape is very specific.  Might even use a bit on the valve hole under the tubeless tape to add a little more strength, later.

It is a learning experience and I can now laugh at hedge cutting season.

I'm wondering if part of the problem is Stan's sealant - never used it myself, but I've heard more than one person on here complaining about it.

CaffeLatex for the win!

Nixster wrote:

...Squirrel Legs

We are the road.cc Borg...

Nixster wrote:

Yeah sorry, conflated squirrels and sparrows 🤣

Welcome to my world! It's usually the rim tape... but could be the valve seating....or then again the interface between the rim and the tyre

Velophaart_95 wrote:

Panaracer GraveKing Slicks

I can't keep up with all those Panaracer variants with almost identical names... Are these a Halloween special edition?

What size tyres and pressure though?
A tentative view is that it doesn't work very well for high pressure or less than 32mm tyres.

I'd tend to agree on pressure 70 psi is a good upper limit. Disagree on 32mm - 28 is fine.

Tyres always specify their pressure range, particularly the upper limit. Surely tyre sealants should do the same? It seems obvious that there must be an upper pressure beyond which the sealant can not be expected to work (and possibly a lower limit too?)

I've no experience of anything over a 28mm tyre - though most of my bikes are old so run on 25s - but intuitively I agree with you.  They're run at 70-80psi - enough, it seems, to force most of the sealant out through any small hole regardless of viscosity.  

Interestingly, the pressure limits on the 5000TLs are the same as the 4000s.... so the manufacturers don't think that it makes a difference. 

I put 32 as they seem to have a lower max than any 25/28s I have had (and you have to factor in the minimum too).

Reading previous articles and topics, lower pressures work better.

Would be worth an article by road.cc on it with more data, as what I have read previously is only a straw poll of views/experiences.

hirsute wrote:

What size tyres and pressure though? A tentative view is that it doesn't work very well for high pressure or less than 32mm tyres.

running 28mm Pirellis at 60psi, no issues. Remember that removing the tube allows you to drop pressure for the same tyre size because a) some of that pressure is taken up stretching the tube b) you can't get a pinch flat.

Chris Hayes wrote:

There are just too many variables using tubeless tyres, and I have four sets of wheels waiting for them to wear out: valve seating, tyre seating, (in) compatibility of wheel rim and tyre hook, gettting the tape to seal, viscosity of sealant, drying out of sealant when you finally have a puncture....and if the sealant has not dried out or the puncture is so serious it warrants an innertube anyway, then you're covered in the shite anyway.  

I'm bored of it and can't be arsed to describe some of the many travails I've suffered. They are great when they work. Terrible when they don't.  

and then there is TSS where there is no tyre hook and the only interface between rim and tyre is on the paralell inner rim wall.

My Pacenti rims are 20mm internal and Pacenti recommend 25mm tape. I always give it two wraps to be sure. Once the tyres have seated (a different battle...) they've always stayed up.

Also someone mentioned MucOff sealant, I think that is universally considered to be the worst of the lot! Too thick to distribute properly.

I did two years on latex tubes and only went tubeless after a run off bad luck with Hawthorne clippings and paper thin race tyres.

I can report I've had just as many (well, just as few) punctures tubeless as I had with latex tubes. Basically I reckon if your tyre is soft enough that you can bang your rim then you're just as likely to pinch the tyre as you are to pinch the tube!

Nixster wrote:

And people say latex tubes are a faff! 😀

TBF these are my 3rd set of tubeless wheels and none of the others were that much of a faff. 

Secret_squirrel wrote:

"I'm surprised no-ones yet mentioned running a  bead of sealant around the outside of the tyre after fitting but before inflating.   Watch the video on the hunt website. 

Sometimes it just takes a couple of tries. My latest Hunt / Schwable Pro One combo took 3 reseats and and about a month of running in before the losses dropped to 2-3 psi per day. (from 70). Seems to stop around 40."

This worked for me - after much effing and blinding in an attempt to get Specialised Pathfinders seated on some DT Swiss rims , my LBS told me to try this and the tyres went on easily with a track pump and don't lose any significant pressure in weeks now.