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Modern cars are rubbish (for cyclists and pedestrians)
Had the pleasure of driving a Merc C-Class over the weekend. I say drive but it was little more than turn the wheel every once in a while for 500 miles. So many buttons, so much automation, so much to distract you.
The only redeeming feature was that the ride was fantastic and the seats extremely comfortable.
Visibility was atrocious - privacy glass for the rear windows and windscreen, and huge A & B pillars. B pillar and roof line in particular was so badly-placed relative to the driver that it was almost impossible to see clearly when turning right from a side road. It was also possible to set the driving position so low that I could barely see above the belt-line, and I'm almost 6 foot. Made it tricky to judge gaps and passing distances relative to parked cars. I've also worked out why you see cars with gouges in rear doors - reversing cameras only deal with the back of the car, not the sides.
From a safety perspective I liked using the speed limiter (important, because it was so quiet you had very little idea of how fast you were wafting along) but I'd imagine it just encourages drivers to drive at the posted limit all the time, rather than considering road conditions. No other active/passive safety features on this particular car because it was a hire car.
It seems that manufacturers are effectively selling an interior/lifestyle choice rather than a driving tool these days, the car was completely uninvolving to drive, even on Sport+ mode (firmer suspension plus comedy throttle blips as you roll up to stop lines FFS)
On the plus side I now have absolutely no desire to own such a technological marvel.
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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68 comments
my first half decent car (after the W reg 1.3 MKII Escort I bought off grandad), was an ex company MKII VX Astra.1.3L SOHC with 75bhp. Enough room for 5 adults, bloody good sized boot, weighed 880kg and my regular fuel economy was 46mph with a max of 55mpg if I really held the needle @ 56mph (done a few times up to peterborough. For a petrol engine at that time and that size car there were few if any that could match it. acceleration was decent, handling whilst not sports like was fine given the 155/13 wheels.
No power steering, no leecy windows but it had a sunroof! I took it to 189,000 miles (put 125k on it in 6 years) before the rust got the better of it and it was still running despite a cracked valve so I was able to drive it to the scrap yard ... I got £1!
Whilst the estate was a bit of a munter the MKIII was nicer and gained power steering and bigger wheels but again was heavier due to all the bits n bobs manufacturers started throwing into motors, particularly crash protection stuff and river aids like power steering and mod cons like electric windows.
I got creamed from behind in the MKII whilst sitting at lights, I had a sore neck for a few days but that was it, the other party's motor was a write off, the Astra was repaired and had a new exhaust, I bloody loved that car, it got me through the Lake District one January when it was snowing and most others were sliding on compacted snow or ice just outside Barrow.
If the Astra had the latest frugal injection engine and a radio I'd buy that, well except I probably wouldn't cos I don't really need a car any more. Don't want/need anything else. IMO the main reason why fuel economy hasn't really moved on since the late 80s in petrol cars is weight, of course increased power draw and aerodynamics not changing much also has an influence.
New Nissan Leaf is heavier than my 2001 Passat Estate (which at 1440kg is no lightweight!), it's no wonder electric cars struggle for range unless you buy/rent even bigger polluting batteries!
A sub 800kg mid sized car with a modern petrol engine and driven sensibly would I reckon get you 60+mpg average. Problem is in this H&S festoone era and governments allowing distracted driving modules/entertainments systems in motors as well every driving aid possible motor weights have just got greater and greater and only changing to more expensive metals can offset some of that.
I've got a Delta in Gran Tursimo Sport if that counts? With the VR headset it's as close as I'll ever get.
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79b6e5e87935f653d5cb43f20defd3af--quote-posters-poster-art.jpg
One of my main bugbears with cars now is the minor improvements come at enormous expense. Lights for example. Not a massive increase to your buy price but when they die it's £800 instead of £8. I can see used cars being a potentially expensive role of the dice and insurance write offs after minor prangs.
A sensor in my car has gone that's not even related to ESP but because this one sensor has gone it's turned off my ESP. I'm sure there's some Audi logic somewhere but I can't see it. Don't need ESP anyway as the 4wd kicks in better without it and I don't need the over intrusive braking, sometimes you need to push a little over the traction limit to get the best out of it.
Climate control has failed in my Passat. It's a nylon cog that's stripped on a motor buried deep in the dash. Need to rip the dash out to replace it - not much change from 12 hour's labour. Means I have no heat in the car and can't keep the windscreen clear. Car simply isn't worth fixing, and all because someone in marketing said that Passat-buyers demanded automatic climate control, rather than having a manual slider to switch the airflow from hot to cold.
And that's a 2005 car - one of these modern lumps is so integrated that if anything electronic fails it's hours and hours of labour to fix.
Has it got a dipstick? My 2016 Volvo doesn't have a dipstick so when the oil warning light comes on the main dealer has to plug it in to the computer so they can find out how much oil to put in.
It’s not been mentioned that cars have grown too big. Every new model is longer and wider than the one it supersedes. For example, the current VW Polo is bigger than an original Golf.
I ride mainly on rural roads and lanes and am constantly menaced by the enormous 4 x 4s that appear to be compulsory in Cheshire. They fill the width of the road and very few attempt to pull in for cyclists.
.... And too heavy. Despite advances in materials and manufacturing processes, each revised Golf or 3 series is heavier than the one before. "when I were a lad", a family saloon weighed a tonne. Now there are few less than 1500kg. Whilst some of this is undoubtedly safety related, some of it is stupidity. Who needs a self closing boot for example, or electrically adjusting seats? All this extra weight in electric motors and gadgets, just makes the car harder to stop, and of course burn more fuel.
Sadly true.
When I replaced my MK 2 Polo (800kg) with 1.2L Fabia I found the newer car is both bigger all round and weighs half as much again yet the amount of interior space is almost identical. The performance of the 54bhp 1.2L 3-cylinder engine is certainly less responsive.
It has much fatter A-pillars and 3/4 panels so visibility is worse so I'm less confident reversing into small spaces. And this a 15 y/o bottom of the range model. I won't want to replace with a newer car because with the ever growing degree of unnecessary complexity and proprietary parts etc in each one I probably won't be able to afford to have anything fixed.
Sorry, but if we're gonna go retro then NOTHING will top a Mini Cooper.
I see your Mini Cooper and raise you a VW 1302S.
Our family Beetle - yes, she does have a name too, but I'm not telling you - is a 1970 1302S. No cassette player or 8 track. No cigarette lighter. No clock. Always starts first time, reliable, steady. Parts are cheap, everything is easy to access - you can do pretty much everything with a screwdriver and a socket set. 1600cc engine and four gears, can hit 80mph on a downhill on the motorway (once, by accident, with a tailwind
).
No contest.
Crap heater, worse handling, noisy and barely altered since the 1940s. Our 1972 Beetle had the most uncomfortable vinyl rear bench I've ever had to sit on. Not great when you're trying to sleep in a lay-by at night on a trip to Scotland at the age of 9.
Driving home in falling snow, my Dad had a head-on with another car at a claimed 15mph* and headbutted the windscreen, which popped out in one piece.
It never ceases to amaze me why, 'characterful' appearance apart, people actually like them.
* I've always found it difficult to believe he was driving that slowly, even in those conditions and piloting a car known for losing front grip thanks to the engine being over the rear axle.
The noise? I like the noise. It reminds me that I'm driving a machine powered by an internal combustion engine which works by burning and exploding petrol
My wife had someone slip on ice and glide into the back of the Beetle. No damage to the Beetle, but you would have thought that the other car had sped into a wall. Modern newfangled plastic bumpers, eh...?
And, you can't tell me that a Mini Cooper is some kind of yacht, surely? My wife's sister and her husband owned one - I remember (nightmares, frankly) trying to eat fish and chips sitting in the back of their Cooper...
Interesting take on how efficiency improvements have been used to generate more performance rather than create greater economy
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/06/citroen-2cv.html
Whole website worth a look for a different take on tech
And part of the reason they're getting bigger is not for any driving or even ergonomic advantages, it's simply "so I can see over the other cars".
I did 300 miles in a rented Nissan fitted with lots of gadgets a couple of weeks back. At first I was impressed by the lane change warning lights which came in if anything was moving in the field of view of the door mirrors. This being an attempt to stop you switching lanes if anything was over, or undertaking you. Then out in the country, the system fail lamp started flashing, which seemed to broadly coincide with passing forested areas close to the road. Not a failsafe system then. Then the self dipping headlights, whereby in the best case the car had a second of thinking time after you switched to main beam before the lights changed. Worst case, which seemed to be right hand bends with the headlights reflecting off trees, embankments etc, it wouldn't allow me to put main beam on. If I need main beam, I don't expect the effing car to stop me! There may be an override, but being a rental, I didn't have time to check it out. Not impressed with any of it. And this is all pretty basic compared to the level of intelligence a fully self driving car needs.
It seems that manufacturers are effectively selling an interior/lifestyle choice rather than a driving tool these days, the car was completely uninvolving to drive, even on Sport+ mode (firmer suspension plus comedy throttle blips as you roll up to stop lines FFS)
Hasn't this been the case for a couple of decades now? Since they first installed cup holders, at least.
It is through the gradual creep of all those driver-assistance features (antilock brakes, etc) that fully autonomous cars will eventually arrive. Made by car manufacturers, not Google or Amazon. Arguably this started in the 1930s(?) with the first automatic transmissions.
My car has self dimming headlights which quite often get confused by lights not attached to vehicles and even by reflected light from road signs. I don't use that mode.
It also has adaptive cruise control which is actually rather good, but I wouldn't trust it 100% as it just doesn't seem to look far enough up the road and will quite happily accelerate you into a position where it is forced to disengage and hand back control.
However it does have a whole host of hidden tech from antilock brakes to electronic stability and traction control which have been around for years and work perfectly. I'm pretty sure that I'll own a fully autonomous and safe self driving car within the next 20 years.
I've largely got over my petrolhead emotions of my youth, but there are still a few cars that I carry a flame for, the Lancia Delta Integrale in full rally spec being one of them.
No use in Manchester traffic though. Off road, I would probably stuff it into a tree on the first greasy bend so would be joining you in the queue for angel wings.
+1 but in road-going spec and a subtle colour (I liked the burgundy-purple).
Biscuit leather interior with contrasting stitching
(remember it featured in a PC driving simulator c.1994)
I would literally kill for that. Myself probably about 2 minutes after getting in.
Those things are worth daft money now. If I was a man of endless resource I'd do the shopping in a group B car though. Metro 6r4 would probably be supermarket friendly.
Put some extra lamps on and this is about as far as cars needed to evolve.
Something like this?
lanciadelta.jpg
Completely agree. Did a track day in one of those, utterly, utterly brilliant
I had one of those!!
Gutted when I had to sell it
Likewise, especially as I had paid to have a cassette player fitted.
Me too. Wheelspin on wet roads in third gear was most entertaining. wasn't a bad 2nd car. My first was a Hilman Avenger Tiger MKII & yes I was a real petrolhead in the 1980's. I wanted the biggest possible engine in the smallest bodyshell so the TSL was the epitome of vehicle design to me. Its only real limitation was the small petrol tank & its abismally high fuel consumption.Now I run a Vauxhall Zafira - perfect as I can get my bikes in the back!!
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Extra lamps? It's already got rally car driving lamps! Can you imagine a hatchback with rear wheel drive and a Lotus engine today?!?!?!
Mercedes have a radio ad for one of their new cars currently. There is nothing about the car at all, no benefits of this v the BMW/Audi competition or any car selling points; it literally only mentions that you can talk to it! And then there's some throw away comment about it not being able to tell you a joke because it was engineered by Germans...
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a... Actually Lord, can you take me to the bike shop?
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