Do you even need 12-speed on a road bike? It’s a really good question, and since we had a very nice Canyon Ultimate CF SLX in the office with the latest Campagnolo Record 12-speed groupset recently, David thought it would be a good idea to try and answer that question. So hit play on the video above to find out.
If you missed the launch of Campagnolo Record and Super Record 12-speed earlier this year, you can read Jack’s first ride story on it here and watch his unboxing video here.
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David worked on the road.cc tech team from 2012-2020. Previously he was editor of Bikemagic.com and before that staff writer at RCUK. He’s a seasoned cyclist of all disciplines, from road to mountain biking, touring to cyclo-cross, he only wishes he had time to ride them all. He’s mildly competitive, though he’ll never admit it, and is a frequent road racer but is too lazy to do really well. He currently resides in the Cotswolds, and you can now find him over on his own YouTube channel David Arthur – Just Ride Bikes.
Hope Barcelona keep the transport improvements (they've been making for a while) coming! Better streets, more infra to help active travel where necessary. And while it's a major investment (though can be lower operating cost than busses) maybe more trams where they can. That may be more effective in making places active travel friendly and replacing taxis than mass public bike hire. They've a good start with 6 lines already.
I think this is a positive story. They're not getting rid of public hire bikes - they're expanding their in-house one. They're merely kicking out cowboys who've shown they've a lack of interest in the game they claim to be playing. It seems logical that companies whose business model is to extract (venture capital) money by invading public space are even less likely to make the efforts to keep things in order than a local "in house" scheme. (After all the "bikes and riding" part of these schemes always *costs* money, they don't generate it.) So not surprising their experience shows those firms are not particularly motivated to follow the rules - especially when scrapping for "market share". It's nice the European Cyclists’ Federation is thinking about tourists also (i hesitate to say "follow the money...") - as they note, where it's safe to cycle locals will largely get their own bikes. Tourists aren't going to stop coming because lack of public bike share - I think this is mostly a "nice to have" ("hey - why don't we go on one of those bikes there? ").
Harm minimization - at least they're not driving...
I'll counter that by saying the Bryton 750se I have drives me nuts at times. Inconsistantly picks up on routes created on Komoot and the app re-syncs every few seconds when trying to set up the device and sends me back to the home screen. The most infuriating one is that I turned live track on. Once. It now won't turn off and repeatedly flags up the live track is starting, and then disconnecting every few seconds whilst riding. I haven't timed it but it wouldn't suprise me if 10-20% of the time the the screen is covered with an error message. That's been about 6 weeks now. Other than that it's great :/
RE: Police launch road safety operation... by clamping down on cyclists using footbridge Meanwhile in Glasgow, Police Scotland are riding their motorbikes over the pedestrian and cyclists only bridge. https://x.com/FietserGlasgow/status/2065106152917012523?s=20
@Paul J Van Schip certainly seems a bit of a dick, but he's a European and multiple World Champion on the track, pretty sure you don't get there without having some talent in your legs.
Poor Vincent cannot get over the simple fact that given the choice people prefer dedicated cycling spaces, rather than pretending to be cars like vehicular cyclists.
What is the point of the fancy air sensor if it can't account for changing weather conditions?? If all you care about is a delayed approximation of aerodynamic watts in steady conditions, you don't need any special sensors for that. Just your speed on a decently flat course is enough to approximate rolling resistance and drivetrain losses. And the rest must be aero. If you assume a less aero body position at the same watts, your speed will drop while rolling resistance also drops, which means approximated aero watts goes up. And that's enough to demonstrate what you've shown in your testing protocol ("I sat upright and the number went up a little while later").
Your correction is accurate - it's almost always been "the (lack of) thought that (doesn't) count". "Massive" - less than a billion a year spent on active travel (trying to catch up / building a network across the entire country) Not massive - 6 billion every year (2026-2030) spent on road *maintenance* of existing "already built, goes everywhere, very convenient" road network for inactive travel Ultimately the reason "cycle infra" is *needed* is those unbelievably colossal amounts spent every year (and for more than a century now) on making mass motoring not just viable but apparently the "best choice" for most journeys. As the Dutch and others have shown, the majority of people *are* prepared to cycle and even mix with very light, slow local motor traffic *if* cycling is also made safe and convenient for the whole of their journey (including secure parking at both ends). (The history of the financial drivers of the current situation are a complex topic but note that while people complain about "crumbling roads" and underfunded motor infra - with some reason - by us continuing the fuel duty escalator freeze (for example) we're actually helping motorists pay *even less* for that activity / subsidising more of the cost of driving than ever.)
yes, but people will still object - which was my point.
30 thoughts on “Video: Should you buy a bike with 12-speed?”
Do you need Campagnolo…….
Do you need Campagnolo…….
you can stop the question right there, the answer is no
bechdan wrote:
disagree… ergonomics is far supirior
reg 12 speed: if we have to accept all casettes starts with a 11 tooth cog and that the smallest crankset option is 50/34: then yes we need 12 speed in order to have a straight block from 12 to 17 teeth.
Shimano’s 11-28 and Campy’s 11-29 11-speed casettes does not have the 16t cog (or the 18t). 11-32t are even worse off. At least Campagnolo still have a nice 12-29t 11-speed casette.
Unfortunately Campy only offfers the 12 speed casette in 11-29 and 11-32.
A 12-speed 12-29 and 12-32 with both 16t and 18t cogs would be nice (tight high end and decent lowend)
bechdan wrote:
Nonsense! I am entirely loyal to Campy now because they are loyal to me.
I have a 1950s track bike, a thing of beauty. Campy Record hubs and bottom bracket. Last time I needed spare parts, I could still get them.
On the other hand, I tried to get some spare parts for some 10 year old Dura Ace brakes a few years ago and they weren’t available because Shimano change ranges and tech so often they expect cutomers to constantly upgrade.
So I made a decision some time ago that it was Campy all the way, and I’ve never regretted it. Both Shimano and Campy make good gear. But I’m sticking to the latter.
And as others have said, the more manufacturers of premium parts the better.
bechdan wrote:
Correct. One of the few people who read the question!
Need: no.
Want: yes or no or maybe.
Silly comment. We need at
Silly comment. We need at least 3 or 4 companies that all try to improve their equipement . Competition and inovation would benefit us all.
If you like Campagnolo or not is another question.
grasen wrote:
without sounding too much like a Life of Brian quote (what have the Romans ever done for us) – what has Campag innovated in the last 20 years that has been better than Shimano SRAM etc?
Bit harsh that. Campag make
Bit harsh that. Campag make some lovely stuff.
Do you need 12-speed though? My bikes are Shimano 10 and Campag 11 speed and both have small enough gaps between ratios where it matters.
Love Campag’s thin, neat hoods, but preferred older style thinner crank arms to the monolithic look here.
Where I’m out though is money. 105/Ultegra works so well, why spend more?
jaysa wrote:
Indeed. But my Campa 2×10 Veloce groupset was almost the same price as the at that time current 105 2×10. I do like the ergonomics better (like the thumbshifter) and in a group of Shimano riders why would I want more of the same? We all like to be (more or less) unique. That’s why there are dozens of bike brands.
They dont play well with
They dont play well with other manufacturers – cross compatibility is as important as competition
Campagnolo was forst with 9
Campagnolo was forst with 9 speed, 10 speed and 11 speed.
12 speed: first road groupset…
and that 12 speed casette will still fit a 1997 9-speed hub (propper Ingeneering and design from the start where Shimano, SRAM and others are constantly failing by intruduceing new inferiour standards not improving on previous failed desings
Their running out of ideas to
Their running out of ideas to extract money from the cyclist. No need for 12 speed. IMO
Jimnm wrote:
Did you say the same when 11 speed came out? And 10? How about 9, 8, 7 and 6?
I’m always running out of
I’m always running out of gears, surely the answer to the headline is a resounding yes!
meme day!
meme day!
Er? Didn’t Campagnolo also
Er? Didn’t Campagnolo also invent the quick release and the rear mech too? I’ve been using Campag for 25 years now. Sram is lovely too. I tried Shimano for the first time in 2017 and was shocked into laughing at how the levers wobble in four directions when braking. Is that why Shimano is so cheap? I can’t think of any other reason why the brake levers shimmy.
In the 11 months since this
In the 11 months since this video was posted Campagnolo have launced three mechanical 12-speed groups, two EPS groups and one EPS disc group (with Record EPS disc on the way). SRAM have launched their new eTap road grouspets in 1 x and 2 x to join the 12-speed gang, yet Shimano are late to the party.
If one of the big three
If one of the big three actually offered cassettes that the majority needed not what the higher end amateur/pros use then they’d increase their market share.
A 13-36 12 speed with a 52/33 would give you a hell of a set up for touring/mountain riding with a double and reduce further the nasty jumps between the ratios that can upset your rythm when having to transition between terrains and when you’re pushing hard on a steep incline, 13 speed would go even further.
However, 13 or 12 requires new wheels that are having to be redished which is making them subtly weaker like for like.
No-one ‘needs’ 12 speed, just like most people don’t need anything beyond 5 speed, especially when 36T sprockets were available by at least the early 80s, however it could make cycling slightly but is it really enough of a difference to justify all the extra cost?
CyclingInBeastMode wrote:
Sounds great (although 13-36 would still be pretty gappy) but how long would the rear mech have to be to take up the 20 links of slack chain that would be required when running 33×13 to annoy the anti-crosschainers?
srchar wrote:
Rear mech capacity would’nt be a problem but it would be horrible to ride with such a big jump between the front rings needing several shifts at the back to compensate. Now if only someone could come up with a way of adding an extra ring at the front to make shifts closer while still giving a wide range…
ChasP wrote:
That’s a great idea; I can foresee it would be particularly useful for hilly touring. It would allow the gaps in the cassette to be closed up while maintaining range. You wouldn’t even need 12 sprockets, perhaps 10 would be enough. I can’t see an additional e.g. 30T chainring weighing any more than two additional large sprockets. It would in all probability be cheaper and easier to maintain too.
The only downside I can see is that it wouldn’t look pro.
srchar wrote:
Perhaps they could even design it with a left hand shifter that will operate either a triple or double chainring set up so that you don’t have to buy a complete new set of ergos if you change your mind?
Oooh, and they could offer the cassette drivers in Shimano or Campag pattern, so that if you change manufacturers, you don’t have to throw away a perfectly good set of wheels!
quote=jaysa]
They do, I covet everything thay create apart from the shifters, which IMHO are an ergonomic fail, however I do realise that some people think they are wonderful, I prefer SRAM, my other half, prefers Shimano…
52/33 would need a very long rear derailleur when combined with a 13-36 cassette, but I’d be quite happy with a 13/36 cassette with 50/34 chainrings
Grumpier-Older wrote:
Elaborate?
CyclingInBeastMode wrote:
Sounds like somebody needs to take up golf.
Yes, I do.
Yes, I do.
I also need a new 6kg bike with aero wheels, power meters in the pedals, and a Garmin 10 million with auto-plan, auto-train, auto-diet and auto-flush. It’ll be my perfect machine for Peloton sessions.
Please send it soon!
Money no object, unlimited
Money no object, unlimited maintenance time, yes, I’ll have an extra sprocket.
But it is, and there isn’t (and the cassettes are gappy AF), so I’ll stick with Veloce 14-26 on the commuter and Chorus 12-25 on the weekender.
I remember saying we didn’t
I remember saying we didn’t need 6 speed.
Why would anyone want a
Why would anyone want a company more commonly known for their fishing parts on a bicycle?
Veloce is the equivalent of Dura Ace, above that Campgnolo excels in every other respect.
With regards to ratios I find 39:16 easily gets me up porlock, widdecombe, haytor and I can just about keep up with the club at 160rpm on the flat! – and yes it’s a campag single speed
I’ve just bought myself a
I’ve just bought myself a bike with the Super record eps 12 speed groupset. Did I feel I needed it? No. Is it nice to have? Yes.
Judge dreadful wrote:
On a Bianchi that doesn’t fit you.