Want lower gears on your gravel bike? We do, so we set about combining some parts that aren’t supposed to work together to get a massive gear range. Ssshh, don’t tell Shimano.
Gravel bikes are over-geared.
Out of the box, your typical gravel bike has a 50/34 chainset and an 11-32 cassette, giving a range of gears that’s fine on roads unless you’re riding somewhere very hilly, but with limitations you very quickly bang up against when you venture off road.
That bottom gear is far too high. When I head out of Cambridgeshire to the gentle slopes of Suffolk I find myself wanting something lower for longer climbs. When he tested Trek’s new Checkpoint David Arthur — who is much, much fitter than me — found he had to get off and walk when riding the Cotswolds. “Compact chainsets have no place on gravel bikes,” he said in a road.cc office discussion of the issue.
In gear inches that typical 50/34 & 11-32 set up has a low of 29in and a high of 123in — a 428% difference between smallest and largest.
Not only is 29in too high, but so is 123in. You’re never going to use that top gear off-road and you’re not going to get much use from it on the road either. (I could digress into a rant here about component makers supplying almost nothing but pro-class top gears on bikes that will never see a sprint for the line, but that’s a topic for another time.)
Let’s try and cook up a better gear selection.
Sprockets
The arithmetic of gearing makes a change of sprockets the most effective way to get lower gears, and in the last few years Shimano and others have made available 11-speed cassettes with ranges of 11-36, 11-40, 11-42 and even 11-46, all with the same sprocket spacing as our gravel bike’s 11-32.
But there’s a problem: no Shimano road derailleur is rated to work with a sprocket larger than 34-tooth. How about a mountain bike derailleur? Nope. For some reason known only to Shimano, their 11-speed road and mountain bike shifting systems aren’t compatible. Back in the nine-speed days you could use a Deore XT rear derailleur on a road bike if you wanted to, but that’s not the case for 11-speed. What to do?
Well, Shimano’s assessments of derailleur capacity have always been conservative. When Shimano say something won’t work, that often means it won’t work to the high standards Shimano sets, not that it won’t work at all.
And this is what we find with Shimano’s latest GS line of 11-speed ‘Shadow’ road bike rear derailleurs. The £58 Ultegra R8000 medium cage derailleur (RD-R8000-GS for fans of part numbers) is not supposed to be able to shift to a sprocket bigger than 34-tooth, but YouTube is full of backroom tinkerers demonstrating that it works just fine with an 11-speed 11-40 cassette.
The 105 GS rear derailleur looks geometrically identical to the Ultegra, but is typically £20-£30 cheaper. Could this be a cheap way of getting really low gears on a gravel bike?
To find out, I bought a 105 RD-7000-GS rear derailleur (£36.95), an SLX CS-M7000 11-40 cassette (£40.77) and an 11-speed Shimano chain (£19.01). I thought about pushing my luck and going for 11-42, but I wussed out. Maybe another time.
The cassette is a big beast of a thing. I don’t think I’ll ever quite get used to just how huge a 40-tooth sprocket is, never mind the 50-tooth and bigger sprockets now available for mountain bikes. Rotor’s 13-speed system includes a 52-tooth sprocket. When Ah were a lad, that were a chainring!
The 11-40 cassette fits straight on the hub of my Prime RR-28 wheels in place of the 11-32, and the 105 R7000 GS rear derailleur substitutes perfectly for the 105 5800 GS unit. To give the derailleur the best chance of handling the big sprocket I dial the B-tension ‘angle of dangle’ screw all the way in, pulling the body of the derailleur as far back as it will go. I tweak limit screws and cable tension and run carefully up and down the gears.
Success! It shifts just fine to that huge sprocket, clicking into place as if it were designed to.
I’m still running the original chain, so I try shifting the front mech into the big ring. Bad idea. It’s immediately obvious that things are going to go seriously wrong if I try to use the big/big combination.
I ditch the original chain and fit the new one I’ve bought. At this stage I don’t have the chainset I want to use, but I want to ride this weekend. The existing chain would probably work fine with the 46/30 chainset I’m waiting for.
Out on the road and the trail, the difference is soon obvious. I keep glancing down, thinking I must be getting close to the lowest gear, and finding I’m actually in the middle of the cassette.
This isn’t very surprising. The 34/25 combination on the old set-up, 37 gear inches, was two gears from the lowest. In the new set-up’s 34/24 (38.3 inches) I still have four lower gears.
My proving ride takes riding buddy Al and me down a narrow, wet bridleway into the village of Linton, home of the excellent Linton Kitchen cafe. We’re in the middle of a drought, but the leaky water tower at the top of the hill means there’s always a stream here to flick mud up at you.
Fuelled by coffee and carrot cake, we tackle the bridleway in reverse. My state of fitness could be accurately described as woeful, but nevertheless, it’s a doddle. The average gradient of the top section is about 10 percent, which by Cambridgeshire standards makes this a Proper Hill™, and climbs on trails never have perfectly even gradients. I pootle up it easily. Al zooms on ahead. Not having a 34/40 low gear he doesn’t have any choice, I tell myself. It’s nothing to do with him being a lot fitter than me. Ahem.
For fans of gear charts, this is where we started:
| 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 16 | 18 | 20 | 22 | 25 | 28 | 32 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 50 | 122.7 | 112.5 | 103.8 | 96.4 | 84.4 | 75.0 | 67.5 | 61.4 | 54.0 | 48.2 | 42.2 |
| 34 | 83.5 | 76.5 | 70.6 | 65.6 | 57.4 | 51.0 | 45.9 | 41.7 | 36.7 | 32.8 | 28.7 |
And this is where we are now:
| 11 | 13 | 15 | 17 | 19 | 21 | 24 | 27 | 31 | 35 | 40 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 50 | 122.7 | 103.8 | 90.0 | 79.4 | 71.1 | 64.3 | 56.3 | 50.0 | 43.5 | 38.6 | 33.8 |
| 34 | 83.5 | 70.6 | 61.2 | 54.0 | 48.3 | 43.7 | 38.3 | 34.0 | 29.6 | 26.2 | 23.0 |
In short, we’ve stretched the range from 428% to 538% with no downside except for a bit of extra weight. I think the gaps between gears are still reasonable; more on that later.
To go even lower (and wider) we’re going to need a change of chainset.
Chainset
One thing I wanted to avoid in this project was trying to persuade road and mountain bike components to work together. There was a time when you could cross the streams easily, but Shimano’s road and off-road derailleurs now have different geometries, so you can’t use mountain bike mechs with road shifters without some sort of cable pull converter. That’s a level of bodging I wanted to avoid.
That means the chainset can’t be too small or a road front mech won’t work well with it because the curves of the cage won’t follow the shape of the chainring. I therefore settled on one of FSA’s Adventure chainsets in a 46/30 ‘sub-compact’ configuration. That’s enough of a difference to be worth the hassle, but not so much that the shifting will be balky.
FSA makes several 46/30 cranksets, from the high-zoot K-Force and SL-K Modular units with carbon fibre arms to the inexpensive Tempo CK Adventure cranks that fit old-school square taper bottom brackets. In the middle, at a sensible price and weight, there’s the new Energy Modular BB386 Evo crankset (£200), with hollow forged aluminium arms, so I went for one of those.
Fitting was straighforward, with just one caveat: the position of its mount stopped the front derailleur going quite as low as I’d have liked. The front derailleur cage ended up a couple of millimetres higher than Shimano recommends.
That’s another reason not to use a mountain bike chainset. If you have a braze-on front derailleur it’s unlikely you’d be able to get it low enough for the 38-tooth outer of a typical mountain bike double — and of course you probably want a higher top gear than the 38 ring would provide.
The gear range
With the FSA 46/30 chainset, the resulting gear range is massive. Here’s what it looks like:
| 11 | 13 | 15 | 17 | 19 | 21 | 24 | 27 | 31 | 35 | 40 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 46 | 112.9 | 95.5 | 82.8 | 73.1 | 65.4 | 59.1 | 51.8 | 46.0 | 40.1 | 35.5 | 31.1 |
| 30 | 73.6 | 62.3 | 54.0 | 47.6 | 42.6 | 38.6 | 33.8 | 30.0 | 26.1 | 23.1 | 20.3 |
That’s a 558% range, much bigger than the 428% we started with and most of the extension is at the bottom of the range where it’s most needed. But we’ve also preserved a decent high gear for those zoomy road descents.
Only mountain bikes have lower gears. While single-chainring gearing has all but taken over on mountain bikes, some double-chainring bikes are still available, with gearing down to a positively wall-climbing 22/42 (around 15 inches, depending on wheel and tyre size).
Those systems sacrifice the high end though. With a 36/11 or 38/11 top gear (around 90 inches) you’re going to be doing quite a bit of coasting on descents.
Riding
Out back, the 105 rear derailleur clicks effortlessly and without fuss from one sprocket to another, even when it gets to the final 35 and 40-toothers that it’s not supposed to be able to handle. Up front, the old 5800 front mech flips easily between the 46 and 30 chainrings.
This set-up is noticeably gappier than the one it replaced. There are a couple of 15 percent jumps between gears, and the gap between the two highest, provided by the 11 and 13 sprockets, is a whopping 18 percent. I can live with that, but if you’re a finely-tuned pedalling machine who struggles to change cadence more than a few percent, you’re going to find it a bit jarring.
The big advantage of a gear set-up like this is that it reduces the need to hit the redline every time you go uphill. Back when I was doing a lot of mountain biking, I was always the guy pootling along at the back while everyone raced up the first couple of hills. And I was the one with plenty in the tank at the end of the ride, sitting on the front towing everyone for the last 10 miles home.
Tweaks and alternatives
If Shimano’s 11-40 cassette is just too gappy for you, SRAM makes an 11-36 11-speed cassette (£63.05) that shrinks the biggest gap by dropping a 12 between the 11 and 13. With a sub-compact chainset like the FSA that still yields some usefully low gears. SRAM says the 11-36 is only compatible with single-chainring gear systems, but that’s almost certainly a matter of marketing rather than engineering.
If you wanted to go electronic, you could assemble a Di2 version of this transmission without breaking any of Shimano’s rules. The XTR and Deore XT electronic rear derailleurs work with Ultegra and Dura-Ace Di2 drop-bar shifters. The Di2 rear derailleurs are rated for a 42-tooth sprocket in a 2 x 11 system, so you could go slightly lower than I have. I’d love to hear from anyone who’s tried this.
If you wanted to save money, you could use a £22.95 Wolf Tooth Roadlink to extend the capacity of your existing rear derailleur. According to the manufacturer, the Roadlink will extend any non-Shadow GS rear derailleur to work with an 11-40 cassette.
That’ll work if you’re still running 10-speed too. SunRace makes a couple of 11-40 10-speed cassettes, the £30.59 MS3 and lighter MX3 (£40).
Conclusion
I think the system I’ve put together provides the best wide-range gravel bike gearing currently available, at a sensible price. It’s very handy that it can be put together in two stages and the most effective one — changing the sprockets — is the cheaper.
There are plenty of arguments for alternatives, though. People fitter than me like the simplicity of 1 X 11 systems and are prepared to sacrifice a bit of range to get an easy life, and more power to them.
It’s a pity Shimano doesn’t make it easier to put together a wide-range system like this. They could offer SGS versions of the Ultegra and 105 Shadow rear derailleurs, for example, with the capability to handle 11-40, 11-42 or even 11-46 cassettes. And they need to offer chainsets with smaller rings and front derailleurs that work with them. Maybe next year, eh?
90 thoughts on “How to get ultra-low gearing for gravel bike adventures”
A very interesting read!
A very interesting read!
Are the SRAM 1x set up gravel bikes generally geared OK? I am on the lookout for a “gravel bike” to use for touring in countries with roads and trails even ropier than ours, and like the idea of a 1x on the ease of use and reliability front. For example the PX Full Monty maxes out at 42 42 which I thought would be good enough for pretty much anything bar really serious climbing.
roadmanshaq wrote:
That depends!
My gravel bike came 1x with 44 ring and 42 largest sprocket. This was fine on the road, if unladen, but as soon as I hit the gravel or added any load I began to struggle. Combine gravel and load and it became unpleasant. Most forest roads are easily as steep or often steeper than most tarmac roads, but with the surface being far from smooth and often very draggy due to moisture, there was no way I was going to stick with that set-up.
I decided to change the chainring for a 38t, and hey presto, sorted. On occasion I wished for even lower, but that’s only on some really steep off-road stuff, and I’ll just battle up those bits as otherwise it’s perfect. I can still pedal at 28 mph which is plenty fast enough for the bike. If I want to go faster, I’ll be on my ‘normal’ road bike, sticking to tarmac and riding unladen – on the gravel bike though anything over 25 mph and I just ease up and enjoy the rest.
roadmanshaq wrote:
I recently changed my SRAM setup. I bought the bike with a SRAM Force 1 which was running 42 chainring and 11-32 cassette. This served me well til I started doing some bigger rides with some hard gradients – 16% + climbs.
I am now running the SRAM Apex 1 mech with 11-42 so have that golden 1:1 ratio and it’s doing the job – I’m very rarely going into the 42 unless it gets really hard but it’s working perfectly. I’m yet to do a fully laden ride with all my bike packing stuff on so might be fighting a bit for some more range but just need to get a bit stronger. I can always get a smaller chainring for a big tour.
Don’t get put off by the purists. They ride what they know and don’t like change. That’s good for them. I like the simplicity of less moving parts and less maintenance.
To summarize;
To summarize;
Check your rear mech is as above
Shove the b screw all the way in
Fit bigger cassette
Reconfigure your rear limit screws and cable tension
Slam your front mech down a few mm
Fit subcompact chainset
Fit new chain
Reconfigure your front limit screws and cable tension.
Top job. May not work on every bike though, none of this is guaranteed, hence Shimano having such restrictions.
Great article.
Great article.
Not usually brave enough to tackle this level of change and risk it all not working together. Thanks for the info. JIMTHEBIKEGUY wish I read your comments first. Important to have the screw on correct position. I had it reversed and was anxious when nothing seemed to fit.
1=got the ultegra derailleur for a reasonable price online (same as 105 retail)
2- XT 11-40t cassette That 40t is huge compared to original 32t!
3- Prefer SRAM chains with power link.
Basically, it all fits and works on my Raleigh Tamland with 34x46T crankset. Saving old cassette for commuting or winter road rides.
I have 46/36 and 11-32 on my
I have 46/36 and 11-32 on my sram apex equipped “gravel” bike. I could do with getting the gearing a bit lower, but funds are committed elsewhere just now. I’ve already forked out for the 46/36 cross chainset which I had to import from Germany as no one in the uk was selling it.
vonhelmet wrote:
Cross chainset offers less gap between chainrings, but has a higher lower end than a normal compact . I’d suggest swapping the 36 for a 34 ring for a cheap and fast lowering of the gears.
Trouble with a 46/30 chainset mentioned in the article is that althought the mech works, it’s not perfect (much more difficult to set-up to avoid chain/mech rub). The mech isn’t designed to work with a ring size of 30t and the distance from the mech to that ring means the chain is further in towards the frame at the point the chain passes through the mech, meaning the mech must be allowed to move further towards the frame to stop the rub, meaning it rubs much earlier when shifting up the sprockets.
The gap between the rings in percentage terms on a 46/30 is also much bigger than on 50/34 (it feels much bigger than the numbers would suggest – I often had to shift two or three gears on the back when shifting between rings to balance things out pedalling wise).
If my bike hadn’t come 1x, I would have stuck with double but gone for 46/32 to help deal with both issues.
Shimano need to produce a front mech specific to ‘super compact’ chainsets, and maybe a super compact chainset too, then I’d consider running such a set-up again (although I do like having my left shimano lever hooked up to a dropper seatpost … there’s another experiment road.cc could do and write an article about!).
Interesting. A couple of
Interesting. A couple of weeks ago, I followed the LF6 Long Distance route across Belgium on my Kinesis ATR with about 20kg of luggage/water. The route attempts to track a ‘scenic’ path across the region that takes in both the Bosberg and Kluisberg not to mention miles and miles of forests and dodgy concrete roads through corn fields. I felt that the 50/43 and 33/11 combination should have been sufficient, but it was taking me all day just to cover 100km (my average speed was barely 15kph). The heat obviously didn’t help (it was touching 32° most days), but I do wonder now whether a wider breath of gears might have been wiser? I didn’t think it was an option, really…
I quite liked the setup
I quite liked the setup Bombtrack run on their Beyond gravel bike.
Apex 2×10 shifters.
SRAM 42/28 MTB X5 chainset.
GX rear, MTB X5 front. 11-36 cassette.
Gear range is 21-104″ depending on tyres which is scarily close to what I used to run on an MTB 3×7 (48/36/24 & 12-28) back at the dawn of time.
Suffolk, longer climbs. this
Suffolk, longer climbs. this does not compute. Max elevation in Suffolk is128m asl, where are these longer climbs as us local types would like use them for training.
Good read! More articles like
Good read! More articles like this, please.
Brilliant – more articles
Brilliant – more articles like this please!
I have been riding a 3 x 11
I have been riding a 3 x 11 set up on my Disc Trucker for the past three seasons which is also not supposed to work. Deore 22, 36, 48 + 11-40 + XT bar end shifters + XT Dynasis rear mech + Woolftooth Tanpan, all work brilliantly for me. I expected accelerated chain wear but have not seen it. Lost a tooth off the 40 sprocket on “The Distance” but didn’t notice until the post ride wash down.
Interesting feature. Could we
Interesting feature. Could we have more of these please? Perhaps one on understanding gear inches for idiots.
I posted a while ago about needing to increase the range before heading out to the Pyrenees next month. I have a 10 speed 11-25 cassette on the rear with a compact chainset. I have an old Record rear derailleur that won’t extend as low as 32. I don’t understand gear inches and the online tables mean create more confusion as I don’t have an engineering degree.
What size chainset should I replace mine with to get the equivalent of a 34-32 (or lower)?
Great post and so true about
Great post and so true about how the major component manufacturers ignore the needs of regular riders. When I lived in hilly Seattle, on the west coast of the U.S., I had to set up all my bikes with gear-inches in the low 20’s. In cities like Seattle or San Francisco, you can have climbs of a mile and more that average a 10% grade, and shorter hills with grueling 18 to 20%. grades I was able to achieve low gearing, including with a couple of IGH bikes.
Shimano 11×34 with Acera
Shimano 11×34 with Acera triple (26/36/48).
There you go. Now you’re riding a Giant Escape.
How did the mech handle all
How did the mech handle all the excess chain with a monster cassette like that? I’d imagine it was hanging like the doors on a Lancaster Bomber in any sort of small-small combo
On one bike I have a 44/28
On one bike I have a 44/28 chainset with a Tiagra 9-speed f.d. I think it’s 4500 series mech, anyway it works fine. I probably wouldn’t go any smaller with a road mech, but as numerous people have already said, it does depend on the configuration of your bike. Used with an 11-32 cassette this gives me a lovely low granny gear of around 23″ while avoiding large gaps between gears, and still keeping a high top gear of 108″. Which is high enough that I only use it about twice a year, ymmv.
With this set up I not only find hills much easier, I reckon I often get up them quicker by spinning a low gear than when I had to grind a higher one. And my knees are probably going to thank me for it too, especially when I get a bit older.
I’d like to add my voice to those saying how useful and informative this article has been. More please!
Slightly off topic, but has
Slightly off topic, but has anyone ever converted a ss Shimano derailleur to a GS by swapping the cage plates? You can buy 6800 plates from sjs cycles, lot cheaper than a new derailleur.
gonedownhill wrote:
Don’t know. First I’ve heard of the possibility – but I’m making a note of it cos it sounds good!
gonedownhill wrote:
Yes I’ve done this on several derailleurs, converting both 6700 and 6800 SS derailleurs with 6800 GS plates and inserting a reverse facing allen head bolt in place of the b screw to give a 34T capacity.
Have also run one of these with a Wolftooth Roadlink to give space for up to a 40T sprocket.
gonedownhill wrote:
Yes, did it on the Di2 Ultegra RD. Works perfectly and I now use it with a 11-32
gonedownhill wrote:
Bit late in seeing this, but the answer is yes, although I converted a Dura Ace 9070 Di2 to a long cage using 6800 cage plates. Think you can only do this with Ultegra and Dura Ace mechs, either Di2 or mechanical.
105 is different. But then just buy 105gs cage plates.
have SRAM X0 type 2 (clutch)
have SRAM X0 type 2 (clutch) rear derailure. Enables me to run a std Cmapy Compact 50/34 with up to an 11/40 casette. Will work with SRAM’s std 2×11 brifters out of the box.
however i cheated and prefer Ergo’s so im running my old Chorus 10 speed Ergo’s so i have modified the castte by replacing the spaceres with 10 speed spacers, dumped the 11t and 13t and added an Ultegra 10 speed 13t end cog. 50/34-13/40 is a decent gravel gearing for +40mm 700c tyres.
Im still missing the 14t, 16t cogs though for a tight higend. When said i really love the even jumps from 21-24-27-31-35-40 on the low end when climbing.
Another option for sub
Another option for sub-compact chainrings on a Shimano chainset :
https://absoluteblack.cc/oval-road-chainrings-30-46-and-32-48-for-110-4bcd/
alanmc wrote:
I run this on my Trek Domane for Audax rides. I think the jury is still out on whether the oval shape is an advantage but it does allow 46/30 on a standard Shimano 4 arm crank. The front derailleur sits rather higher than ideal but it changes fine. I run 11/36 at the back. Excellent low gear for 200 metre climbs at the end of a 600km Audax.
Chirs
Enjoyable read. We sometimes
Enjoyable read. We sometimes forget that bikes aren’t all that complicated. The first time I stripped a bike down to its frame was a weird experience, one moment it was just a pile of bits and a little while later it was a bike again. They’re not F1 cars or living things where everything is unique, they’re just a collection of bits – levers, cogs and stuff – and those bits are frequently interchangeable.
C’mon Shimano – even on road
C’mon Shimano – even on road, never mind gravel or touring, us mere mortals would really be better served by 48/32 or even 46/30 “sub”-compacts, and sensible cassette options – 13 or even 14 to 32/34 ??
alanmc wrote:
Shimano have been behind the game in this for a long while, they’ve followed the path of 1x and whilst that will suit some it’s not actually what the majority want certainly not for road riding and I’d contend that 1x on all but very specific types of MTBing is not all that brilliant either.
They’ve shot themselves in the foot with regards to the more touring and leisure riders and I’d even say audax too by stopping up their triple groups to Tiagra (4700 currently), even then it’s very expensive and not that common, you certainly wouldn’t find it in stock in a shop on the high street and online retailers are few and far between. Sure ‘we’ have all had to adapt because the big three have all ignored touring/audax for the most part and we make do with bodges like mix and matching cassettes or buying third party chainsets or simply be forced to have something that doesn’t really suit your needs.
They should have gone down the compact triple route years ago following up on the old RSX compact road chainset fom the 90s, they really fucked up IMHO by continuing with the ‘road’ triple and insisting on 52(or 50)/39/30 but further by not offering triple STIs in 11 speed not higher than Tiagra in 10 speed. You can still buy new 6700/5700 triple STIs but they’re circa £170 and very few and far between and they’re holding their price for mint used ones because they’re so spartan.
I’m using a 50/39/24 with an 11-28, that gives me a 23″ low and I don’t need to worry about the jumps between the ratios which is something people (including reviewers) don’t want to talk about when transitioning both up and downhill particularly under load. When your’re betwix and between and trying to find your cadence sweetspot that’s when wide range cassettes get found out and the jumps are so wide that that transition can be disrupting to your flow and can unbalance you if putting lots of effort through the pedals going down a much bigger gear than you want or find that the jump up means your cadence is much slower so you’re having to dig to get back up to optimal revs, this is just as important touring as it is racing IMHO and is why I won’t ever want to go to a really wide cassette.
Don’t get me wrong, I like 11 speed, it makes 12-30 so much easier and I’ve said in the past that a 12 or 13 speed cassette in say 12-32 with a 50/28 would be just about the sweetspot for me. I can actually get 50/28 easily enough using my old Stronglight 86mm and the rings work fine with 10/11 speed chains but the problem is that 12 and upwards means a whole new frame/wheels.
I think a 12/13/14 speed hub gear with a double chainset might well be a way to go to get that really wide range without massive cassettes/really long drailleurs and chainlines and jumps that are at extreme ends.
A racing internal gear hub reduces wheel dish (so stronger/lighter compared to a wide dished wheel, no rear derailleur, perfect chainline all the time, more aerodynamic, not having to spread the frames even wider and with electronic/wireless shifting already a thing for gear hubs with some tweeks regarding weight (like not building them to last 40-60k miles) they could end up being a solution for the wider and lower gear ratio. Unless one of the big three take the jump and go back to making triples (ok SRAM never made them) with sensible gearing options, but it simply won’t happen.
alanmc wrote:
I’m quite surprised by Shimano’s apparent unawareness of these massive gaps in their groupsets. It wasn’t an issue up to 9 speed, so no one complained. With all the different cable pulls now, it’s up to Wolf Tooth, Microshift, FSA, et al to make Shimano’s stuff work in a whole bunch of real world scenarios.
Hmm. I’d personally be
Hmm. I’d personally be inclined to try an old school MTB triple chainset, say 24-34-44.
If your front shifter won’t cope with three rings then I’d dump the 44.
You can keep your existing cassette, rear mech, and shifters that way.
I spent a happy few hours on
I spent a happy few hours on Sunday riding NCN21 from around Crystal Palace down to Eridge, on my audax bike running full-length mudguards and road tyres (700x28c) with a 30 speed Campag triple set up.
Despite what Sustrans will have you believe, this route involves quite a lot of off-road trails, some quite narrow and loose. I was amazed at what I could clear with 30x29t as my lowest gear on essentialy slick (Vittoria Randonneur at the rear Michelin Dynamic at the front) tyres.
I’d thoroughly recommend taking your unsuitable bikes off road from time to time. I had a blast haging the back end out on loose descents, but the whole 1x, massive rear sprockets, enouromous derailleur cages fad at the moment drives me mad. Most of the time the answer is a triple chainset and shifters. Yes, it’s a bit of extra weight, but I’d guess that my extra chainring weighs a lot less than the massive steel sprockets used to replace it and it allows me to use pretty cheap components elsewhere.
Yean, ^^ riding “unsuitable
Yean, ^^ riding “unsuitable bikes” in unsuitable places should be done. Occasionally! A bit of “comedy off-roading”. But maybe not as a regular thing.
Triples, yes. But they’re becoming rare as OME, which means that if you’re altering a stock bike – as opposed to building up from scratch – you’re almost certainly going to have to get hold of a triple shifter, which ain’t cheap.
Oh, and mudguards are good too!
I run XT Di2 on my bike, but
I run XT Di2 on my bike, but now upgraded the front derailleur to Triple XTR. I have a crankset of 48/36/26. and either run 11-32 for general riding or 11-40 Cass for alpine climbs
All setup with ‘Syncro Shift’ so there is no cross chaining. In fact the drive line is superior to a double crankset
CXR94Di2 wrote:
Now I like that set up. Thanks. You have answered some of my questions about Di2.
My hybrid/tourer MTB triple
My hybrid/tourer MTB triple chainset (Deore I think) needed replacing. I wanted to simplify things and the mechanic came up with a Shimano SLX set-up; 38/28 with 11-42 cassette. Good low gears for hills and enough to cruise along the flat. Not a set-up that I’ve seen on a bike in an LBS.
Shades wrote:
I was running a 40/28 XT crankset but found I had too high a cadence on the flats or slight decline to keep up with guys on compact crankset, so I upgraded the outer ring to 44t which was much better, almost perfect setup for me. But I then wanted even more speed and reduced cadence, so I upgraded my setup to triple with 48t outer chainring. (see above)
I now have a bike (Kinesis Tripster V2) which I can use for fast flat riding 22+mph and with even lower gearing than my MTB double crankset for alpine climbs, the chain line is much improved with less chain deflection, being Di2 I can program the shift sequence to chain alignment optimal.
My range in gear inches. is 17″ to 115″
CXR94Di2 wrote:
Ive gone onto a triple now 48/36/26 with Di2 XTR derailleur, for even better climbing and higher top speed
My gravel bike has a 40 chain
My gravel bike has a 40 chain ring and 10-42 cassette. That covers everything I encounter on the roads it is intended for. 40×42 gives me 25 gear inches that will take me up most hills – it takes me up a couple of regular 18% climbs seated (which I need to be to keep weight on the back wheel in the loose stuff). And the 40×10 is all I need for a fast ride on the tarmac on the way to my dirt destinations. Only drawback (and it applies to the setup described in this article too) is that my gravel bike inevitably tempts me to push the boundaries into places where I really should be on the MTB
D-Squared wrote:
Ah not the only one, my gravel bike and the CX before it remind me of the MTB’s I grew up on, oddly I find its the tyres that fail, nomally sidewall rips! I have been trying not to push so hard!
with that in mind the 32-32 has been fine in this dry weather! be a touch over geared come winter!
Nice piece. Sadly it only
Nice piece. Sadly it only arrived just after I went down the XT derailleur, 11-42 cassette, tanpan shifter pull converter route….
Given the chance again, I’d go the route you have described, though I’d be tempted to opt for the Ultegra RD-RX805-GS derailleur with the mtb style clutch. The XT derailleur route works fine, but it isn’t really practical if you want to keep converting between mountain bike and road cassettes.
One issue I found that will apply to the 11-40 cassette with a 105 derailleur is that Shimano 11speed mountain bike cassettes have a slightly smaller pitch than their 11speed road cassettes. The whole cassette is 1.85 mm narrower. This meant I needed to put in a spacer in to hold the cassette tight its hub.
Y’all are doing the work of
Y’all are doing the work of Satan. Carry on.
I usually refer to what the
I usually refer to what the article refers to as capacity as the max tooth of the derailleur. What I normally consider capacity relates to the amount of chain that the derailluer can wrap, given the difference in distance around the smallest ring and sprocket combination compared to the biggest.
I’ve found that while Shimano are conservative in their quoting of max tooth (as correctly stated in the article), the capacity they quote is accurate. This can mean that if you put a bigger cassette on and then set your chain length to be able to access the big-big combination, you can then be unable to get to some of the smaller sprockets when on the small chainring. The chain may be slack running the risk of coming off and/or slapping on the chainstays.
I’ve found this using an RX9000 derailleur on a Specialized Roubaix with a 50-34 compact chainset. I fitted an 11-36 cassette (only 2 teeth bigger than recommended). Quoted capacity for this derailleur is 39 teeth. My setup needs 50-34 + 36-11 = 41 teeth. I find that I can’t use the small-small combination. This is a cross chained combination to be avoided anyway and so I just live with it.
I’d quite like to find a way to create or buy a 48-34 or 46-32 chainset and not have this small problem, but I’ve yet to work out how to do it.
Hi John
Hi John
Great article. I’m running 46/30 FSA modular front and 11-34 Ultegra 11 speed rear at the mo. I’d like to go to 36 or 40 at the rear but isn’t derailleur capacity an issue for chain length? Do you need to avoid small/small or big/big completely? I worry that I’ll forget and end up with a mangled rear mech and wheel!
Cheers
Chris
I’m currently running a DI2
I’m currently running a DI2 XT derailleur on an sram 11 – 42 cassette(left over from the old setup) on a 1x 42 front chain ring (soon to be absolute black oval). no chain catcher the clutch seems enough as not had any chain drops yet.
I’m running the R785 STI’s and have to sprinter blips soldered into the cabling of the R785s that sit under the top for stealth shifting changes while climbing . i’ve configured them to change down on the left buttons and up on the right.
I’ve kept the MT800 display on the bars so i have connectivity from the system though Bluetooth to my head unit and phone.
Had no issues with the shifting and the system has been solid. love it and now looking how i can get Di2 on the road bike on the cheap.
My wife and I live in India,
My wife and I live in India, but frequently travel to the Alps, Jura and the Pyrenees. We usually carry luggage on our bikes. These are regular titanium road bikes with regular road gearing. We also do some rides off road, and that with luggage means we ‘need’ a lower gearing.
When we travel, I swap out our regular cassettes, and put on a 11-36 cassette on mine, and a 11-40 on my wife’s.
The setup is Rival shifters, SRAM Via GT [an odd SRAM RD which can take a 36 cog cassette], and on my wifes bike, I put on a Roadlink for the 40 cassette.
Was wondering if I can put on a 11-46 with the same set up. Any ideas?
I tried the very same setup
I tried the very same setup on my Kinesis Tripster AT and was not able to get satisfactory shifting. Setup: SpaCycles triple TD-2 crank with 46-30T chainrings, Ultegra RX-800 RD, 11-40T SLX cassette. Shifting does work fine with a Wolftooth Roadlink DM, although there’s no chain tension in the small-small combination. Chain length was determined by the big-big measuring method. I cannot remove any more links.
Running an 11-40T casette with the stock R7000, R8000, RX-800 derailleur will be highly dependant on your particular derailleur hanger.
I use that mentioned SRAM PG
I use that mentioned SRAM PG 1170 11-36 cassette on my ultegra 8000 equipped gravel bike (with a compact) and it works absolutely fine. Thats plenty of a low-down gear already, however i just never ever used the top gear, so a less-than-compact front chainset would probably be a good idea as soon as i start touring with a big of extra wheight in the bike. i wouldnt lile bigger jumps between gears on the cassette btw. Keeping an eye on that FSA crankset. there is also the option of using absolute black 30/46 chainrings if you already use a recent shimano road crank. they have a special design to fit the small ring to the 110mm cranks.
Dominic Schulz wrote:
I have a similar setup with a compact but r7000 mechs and 5800 shifters. All good. I found lowest gear of 34-34 was not quite low enough for a few sections of where I ride off road. The 11-36 helps. I didn’t use road link. Just had to be careful with chain length and then adjust the b screw. All seems to function very well.
Ok. first of all sorry for my
Ok. first of all sorry for my english language. and sorry for late commenting.
Now, first problem I want to bring is not the rear mech itself SM105GS and chain climb over a 40t end position, but the overall capacity of the drivetrain, which is supposed to be 37t.
Now a 46/30 can be surely called a low gearing and 20.8 Gear inches is a good MTB wall climbing gear indeed, if we want to put a 19 Gear inches limit from the triple era: granny 24t front vs 36t last position cassette, what I call super-low.
558% too is a great achievement but not in a 45t drivetrain. I’m Asking me how you can manage it, with a 37t RD, and a Wolftooth even if want to expect a +5t from it.
It seems to me your chain is quite short, and a MTB RD must come in.
A more “standard” 36/20 11-36 has 536% ratio in “just” a 39t drivetrain easyer RD climb and more manageable +2t over the RD capacity.
Personally I can’t live without 11-12-13-14-15 in flat lands riding slick wheeled. I my opininion a compromise can be found in a bigger jump in the FD, 17t or 18t even in low gearing. Most can feel it uncomfortable, when swapping chain rings and have to adjust +-6 gears to compensate.
But in this way I can keep my precious narrow speeds, and get a respectable 506% to 509% respectively 20.0-101 38t and 20.8-106 39t managed by a 39t road RD capacity, instead triyng to build a MTB from gravel road bike.
http://goo.gl/FwYRhL
Fabulous article.
Fabulous article.
To throw my twopenn’oth in:
– Not quite as compact as FSAs 46-30 chainsets, but absolutely brilliant are Praxis Works 48-32 offerings. Fitted a 48-32 Zayante to my gravel bike a couple of weeks ago, and am blown away by how stiff both the cranks (power transmission) and the rings (shifting) are. The 50-34 Shimano Sora unit they replaced was ‘fine’ and cost a lot less, but it’s like chalk and cheese.
– I think double chainring is still where it’s at for any gravel bike that might be pressed to bikepacking/touring/other-load-carrying duties. I’m a big fan of the single chainring on my mountain bike, but when faced with a draggy off-road climb whilst carrying kit, I want low gears AND small-ish gaps between them. Only a double (or even a triple!) with a dedicated granny ring is going to offer that, assuming that a sensible high hear is also a requirement.
50/34 – 13/40 gives you a
50/34 – 13/40 gives you a decent range for gravel and bikepacking.
When i build my current gravelbike only subcompact options for non taper square cranks with a road q factor was the in Europe unobtainable Sugino OX2-901D
Middleburn had the RO2 Road X Incy but went out of business as i assembled the bike and still tried to source ideal parts. White industries was still vaporware – So i setteled with a Chorus 50/34 from my stash. 46/30 – 12/36 would have been my prefered choise though.
Great article, thank you,
Great article, thank you, very inspiring, especially for my arhtrosis knee!
Here’s what I did: I installed on my Ridley X-Trail Alloy 2018 a FSA Energy Modular BB386 Evo crankset 46/30, a SRAM PG 1170 11-36 cassette linked with a Wolf Tooth Roadlink to the pre-installed Shimano 105 RD-5800-GS medium cage rear derailleur. That was quite exciting since I had not done interventions of such a scale on my bikes before (thanks to youtube). Beside minor problems (shifting vom13 to 12 to 11 teeth is a bit on the slow side) it works. [Edit: I removed the Roadlink and now the system works just fine.] The difference between the single cogs is at some points quite big (I espescially do not like the 19 to 22 jump) but I suppose that is the trade off in such a set up.
x7zise wrote:
Again, wonderful read, and practical! Thank you!
I too have a 2018 Ridley XTrail C50 with 105 deraileurs and Shamino crank.
I want to confirm if I’ll need to change out my BB and if so which one would you suggest.
Will I also need any special adaptors to do this job?
I noted above the member used his existing 105 RD-5800-GS medium cage rear derailleur…is this pushing it and should I get the recommended deraileur as noted in the article if I want to go to the 11-40 deraileur.
Thanks,
P
I’ve been running SRAM Force
I’ve been running SRAM Force 1 with a Garbaruk 10-50 cassette on my gravel/monster-cross bike for almost a year now. No need for MTB RDs, shifting has been perfect with Force 1 RD and the replacement cage that comes with the cassette – just as smooth as Ultegra on my road bike.
I use a 38t chainring for day-to-day use on road and off-road (which gives me a more than sufficient top speed of 50kmh), and switch down to a 34t chainring for loaded bikepacking (SRMR last year and Italy Divide at the end of the month).
Even on a 200km road ride the gaps rarely bother me – the bottom of the cassette has close spacing, the middle is ok as long as you have a reasonable cadence range, and the large gaps at the top are not noticeable when going that slow. Others may hate it.
I will definitely run 1x for TCR this year. Either the above setup or possibly 38x 10-42 if training goes well. In the longer term 12 or 13 speed 10-50 cassette is where its at for me and covers all of my riding.
Nice links to online
Nice links to online advertisers websites, that will keep you guys going for a while.
Soo…inquiring minds want to
Soo…inquiring minds want to know if the rear derailleur actually had enough wrap to crosschain big/big (46/40) once the longer chain was on. That’s always the larger concern than rear cog clearance.
As for the issue with the front derailleur not having enough downward adjustability on a hanger envisioned for nothing smaller than a 50/34, there is a way to bring the chainring “up” and still have the 46/30 gearing you want: ovalized chainrings. ROTOR’s new Aldhu or Vegast can be paired with a nice Direct Mount 46/30 Q-Ring.
Soo…inquiring minds want to
Soo…inquiring minds want to know if the rear derailleur actually had enough wrap to crosschain big/big (46/40) once the longer chain was on. That’s always the larger concern than rear cog clearance.
As for the issue with the front derailleur not having enough downward adjustability on a hanger envisioned for nothing smaller than a 50/34, there is a way to bring the chainring “up” and still have the 46/30 gearing you want: ovalized chainrings. ROTOR’s new Aldhu or Vegast can be paired with a nice Direct Mount 46/30 Q-Ring.
Been meaning to mention this
Been meaning to mention this for a while..
Although the article says “The 11-40 cassette fits straight on the hub of my Prime RR-28 wheels in place of the 11-32”, shimano 11-speed mtb cassettes are actually 1.8mm smaller than shimano 11-speed road cassettes. A lot of freehubs are short enough that you can screw the lockring tight enough and never notice, but the new mtb cassette will be nearly 2mm too far inboard.
I followed the same path from 11-32 to 11-40, but shifting was a bit noisy. I eventually worked out that a spacer was needed and added one. The cassette didn’t seem any tighter on the freehub, but shifting noticeably improved.
TimB34 wrote:
The large sprocket MTB cassettes come with the spacer in the box to fit onto 11 speed hubs
Thinking about the Di2 route
Thinking about the Di2 route but coming from the other direction – rather than trying to squeeze a road rear derailleur around a MTB cassette: Does anyone have thoughts or experience running 46/30 chainrings on an Xt di2 front derailleur?
A couple of possible issues:
Is the 16T jump too large for the MTB derailleur?
Is there a problem with the BB length (68 vs 73mm)?
Other issues?
Thanks
Tones0000 wrote:
Yes, I built a full Di2 bike with initally a 40/28 chainset, I upped it to 44/28. This was the maximum difference the XT Di2 front derailleur could manage. I would expect 46/30 would fit.
I now run an XTR Di2 front with 48/36/26, work seemlessly. Shimano say maximum chainring is 42t-haha
If anyone is searching for
If anyone is searching for slightly weird combination of kit ….. I have been running RX800 with 11-42 Xt cassette (Ultegra shifter) on my Exploro for past month or so. Loving the setup but having a bigger range of the SRAM XX1 10-42 would be ideal for singletrack playing.
So I rigged up a SRAM XX1 cassette onto XD freehub 650b wheels, adjusted the B tension screw (had to fully screw it in), and I now have 10-42 with 42 tooth chainring up front.
FYI, I run SRAM XX1 mtb cranks with Wolftooth 42tooth narrow/wide chainring.
If anyone is searching for
*duplicate
Another option which is cheap
Another option which is cheap and works extremely well is to use an extender for the derailleur hanger. This lowers the derailleur by about 22mm to accommodate a bigger cassette.
I’m nearly 60 and live in Sheffield, riding in the Peak District with some beautiful but cruel climbs.
I decided to extend the gearing range on my Planet X Nanolight using the extender bought for £2.89 on eBay coupled with a 33 tooth ring from TA Specialities also from eBay.
I now run a 52-33 chainset with an 11-34 cassette with the original 108 link chain. Deraileur is 10 speed Dura ace with short cage.Shifting is still superb front and rear and I can use all gears from 52-34 to 33-11 reliably. I think it could even be pushed to 11-36 !
The only tweaks required were simple : – adjust b-screw to suit, and lift front derailleur about 5mm to clear slightly higher chain line as it just fouled underside of top of cage.
So all easily available parts and hardly any work at all required. Just goes to show how very conservative Shimano specs rreall are !
Hope this is useful to somebody.
I assume everyone has now
I assume everyone has now seen the Shimano GRX series with 48/31 and 46/30 cranksets. The big question will be whether we can bodge an 11-40 or hopefully an 11-42 cassette onto the GRX long cage rear derailleurs which are officially rated for a maximum sprocket of 34T (36T on the 10 speed) and 47T capacity (like everyone has done on the recent road derailleurs).
Tones0000 wrote:
Just use XT/XTR derailleurs and the new GRX crankset job done
CXR94Di2 wrote:
Do you use synchro shift on your install? I did some calculations and it looked like you need to be careful when running cranksets with 16 (or 17) teeth when the MTB etube software assumes you are using 10 tooth differences. It appeared that users would be limited to only a few FD shift points that weren’t all that optimal to ensure that the di2 system didn’t shift “down” into higher gear or shift “up” into a lower gear.
Tones0000 wrote:
Yes I use Synchro
On twin chainrings I use it to stop the extremes of cross chaining and on my triple setup to keep the chain straight as possible. I understand the shift points can be misplaced especially when using non standard gearing. You can with a little experiment tweak the shift points to match your own preferred style of riding
I had my LBS put on an XT
I had my LBS put on an XT M8000 11-40 on my Lynskey R260 R8050 Di2 setup . I was hoping to use an FSA 48/32 up front, but the frame can’t do it with the Di2 wires in the BB. But the LBS said they could replace the 50 with a 46. So I have 46/34 up front, and 11-40 in the back. I need to go for more than a spin and shall report back but was looking for help – How should I adjust the synchro shifting? Is there a logic to the defaults Shimano uses for the 50/34 11-34 setup I had on there before? If someone can point me to a chart or something that explains the framework, I’d be grateful! Thank you
whizwith wrote:
Its probably because the frame has a threaded English BB so the FSA BB not compatible
If its a case of the bottom bracket compatibility with your frame you can use the latest Shimano groupset which is 48/32 46/30 GRX which is hollowtech.
look here for guidance https://www.google.com/search?q=shimano+synchro+shift&oq=shimano+sy&aqs=chrome.3.69i59j0j69i57j0l3.7397j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
I use bike calc https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_ratios to show me the gear inches or ratios, just depends which you prefer. I use these ratios to decide when to allow synchro to jump up or down the front derailleur. Method is when changing to easier gearing you want the shift on the rear to drop down so many cogs, so its in the next easy ratio. You dont want to cross chain if you can help it so change a cog early.
The 11-40 has gears : 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-27-31-35-40t
Whilst on the 46t chain ring when you get to gear 2 (35t cog) the next change will result in the syncro dropping down to the 34t chainring and setting the cassette gear to gear 4(27t)
If you look at the chart below Ive hightlighted in red and yellow the next gear points with ratios.
Red is for changing to next easy gear Yellow for changing up to next harder gear. these are the points in which the front derailleur moves and the rear jumps up or down several teeth simultaneously.
hope that helps
Btw I have triple setup 48/36/26 with an 11-40 cass on Di2 with syncro
CXR94Di2 Thank you!
CXR94Di2 Thank you!
I did have a follow up. So when I went into E-Tube the default settings for my old setup (34/50, 11-34) is listed in “A”. The crossover points are color coded where blue is when shifting down, and the green is when shifting up. The red blocks are the combinations that are locked out (not sure if that is the right term).
If I understand the chart you provided and applied it to the new setup (34/46, 11-40), the shifting up setting would start in one of the locked-out settings. This is illustrated in “B”.
If I were to apply the logic of when shifting to a harder gearing to shift it such that it is in the next hardest ratio, I come up with the scenario in “C”.
Is this right or am I not going about this the right way? The combination I’m using is not available in E-tube, so I am using the old setup but applying crossover points using the gear ratio tables you recommended. Where would you set the crossover points when shifting up from the 34 ring if cogs 11 and 13 were not available.
Should I instead try to find a combination in E-tube that does not lockout the 11 and 13 cogs while in the 34 chainring?
Thank you so much for your help!
B table looks correct. The
B table looks correct as mine. The actual numbers arent available within E tube look up tables, so you have to find the ratios from the likes of Bikecalc and use gear positions instead, the method works fine.
You will see that you can only jump so far with rear derailleur settings as the E tube setting block wide cass jumps-have a play, folk have different gearing preferences. Using 34t chainring with 11t cog is cross chaining and not recommended for increased chain wear and potentially more likely to jam up chain or snag derailleur- same for 46t with 40t cog.
I use syncro shift to primarily keep my chain more inline, but its a nice little feature to use-you can toggle back to manual mode if you dont like it or particular style of riding is interferred with syncro-I mean certain gear selection for a section of road finds you jumping up and down the front derailleur too often. I find this on steep climbs where the ratios im using sometimes have me spinning or grinding with front derailleur moving between granny chainring and middle ring
I just bought a Gravelbike
I just bought a Gravelbike from Ribble, but as I use it 80% of the time as a winter roadbike therefor I have 2 sets of wheels 1 with 11-32 and 30mm tires and one with 11-34 and 38mm tires so I can easly change it without having to adjust it. If I ever will use it more for gravel I probably buy a new Shimano GRX RX810 48/31 crankset so I would still have enough of a high gear and alot lower than the 50/34 I now have, but as I said before that will only be if I go gravelriding more.
KoenM wrote:
I’ve just bought and fitted (just waiting for the chain…and weather… to dry so not ridden yet,) an FSA 46 -30 chainset for my Pinnacle Arkose. Hopefully the last act in a long saga of incremental increases to cassette size and swopping the road derailleur for a DeoreXT MTB mech.
If you plan on swopping your chainset, take a look at the Miche Graff chainset reviewed here this week. It appears to be a straight swop into a Shimano BB . I wish I’d known about it a few weeks ago.
It might not have been cheaper than the FSA, but I could have swopped my expensive to replace and fairly short lived FSA BB for a Shimano one and saved about 200g in the process. Not a lot of weight, but it would have only cost me about a tenner extra, if that. Not a bad Hairsine ratio, and interchangeable with the 105 chainset on my road bike too.
Beware the Shimano GRX, I think it may need a matching GRX front derailleur. (Although I can’t see why any front mech wouldn’t be adjustable to suit.)
pockstone wrote:
You need to be able to set the front mech up with +2.5mm extra throw, so I’d imagine it depends on limit screws and how accurately you can set up your front mech in the first place. Might be a challenge with an 11-speed setup due to finer tolerances. The latest Shimano front mechs (R7000/8000 and probably Dura-Ace) are already designed for a wider chainline. In my experience 2.5mm shift is easily achieved through accurate cable tension/limit screws/barrel adjusters so you might be OK with your existing mech. The new GRX mechs aren’t particularly expensive so it’s easy enough to experiment with your existing setup and get one if required.
I manged to get a Sram 11 –
I manged to get a Sram 11 – 36 working on my 50 – 34 chainset with ultegra rear mech by swapping the top jockey wheel to 10 tooth instead of the 11 tooth standard. I have now got the clearence for it to shift across the full range.
Inspired by this article and
Inspired by this article and the recent review of the Miche Graf chainset I’ve just upgraded my Fairlight Faran. This has been set up for a while with 40mm WTB Nanos, 50/34-11/28 on Tiagra shifters, 105 chainset, and R7000 front mech. So a proper frankenbike.
I’ve now shifted this to an FSA Tempo Adventure 46/30 with the Tiagra 12-34 cassette (already had the Tiagra long-cage mech). I really like the look of the Tempo Adventure and have made peace with installing a square taper BB – this bike isn’t about getting the weight down.
Despite the drop from 50 to 46 I haven’t needed to drop the front mech. It’s way out of Shimano’s tolerances but shifting is absolutely fine – I’m amazed that I didn’t even have to tweak the cable tension. FWIW the Tempo with a 118mm axle maintains the same chainline as the 105 with a Hollowtech BB.
Very noticeable difference on the couple of rides I’ve done so far. I’m spending a lot more time in the big ring on the roads but being able to stay seated on offroad climbs is fantastic. Need to get fitter because I find I can’t spin a granny gear at a high cadence for long enough for some of my climbs – long, deep-rutted chalky/flinty stuff on Cranborne Chase/Salisbury Plain. Also need to get better at bike handling! Riding slow in ruts surrounded by nettles and thistles is tricky!
Has really re-energised my cycling though. I’ve also swapped to a Brooks Flyer saddle which I find really suits me and I’ve started riding in plain clothes as it were (i.e. no padded shorts)
Wondering if I can swap the 12 ring for an 11? Not really necessary on the WTB Nanos as they’re so draggy on the road and I’m not doing long distances but I do find I spin out the 46/12 if I’m feeling like smashing it. Doesn’t help that my run back home from my usual haunts is pretty much downhill.
kil0ran wrote:
That’s a great effort Kil0ran! As you’ve said, re-energised your riding. And don’t forget, having a square taper BB is so ‘on trend’ as my fashionista daughters would say.
Please give us a further update in a few months. I’ll expect you in plaid shirts by then
zero_trooper wrote:
Proper shiny metal cups on the square taper BB, looks great! Also removed the need for a spacer – my Faran is a prototype frame and the BB shell measured 67mm in my calipers, so always needed a 1mm spacer for hollowtech.
Thing is, now I’m thinking about switching to 650B wheels and back to Gravelking SKs for non-muddy stuff. Probably pointless as I’ll only get a handful of rides before autumn turns everything to slosh and the Nanos come into their own.
Out again this morning, middle of nowhere (by south-east standards), big climb, birds of prey circling overhead, view across at least three counties at the top of the climb. Bliss. Also had a gerrofmylaaaand moment with a gamekeeper, oops (he was right, I’d missed the bridleway)
I’m going to ride (gulp) my road bike tomorrow. Time I tried my Cambium C17 in standard clobber.
Best of all, freeing up the 105 chainset gave me enough bits to build my old Triban 3 as a Zwift bike so I got to do some spannering today too.
kil0ran wrote:
Of topic but……… In Scotland gamekeeper would not be grumpy and would likely have welcomed you and been chatty. We have a right to roam responsibly whereever. It should be a right all over.
Question for the experts in
Question for the experts in this thread, why do the Shimano rear mechs have a minimum big cog size?
For example, the new RX810 list min/max big cog size as 30/34. The RX400 is 32/36. And the RX-812 is 40/42.
Is it because they’re clutched mechs?
11-42T + 46-30
11-42T + 46-30
I bought a Trek Checkpoint ALR5 and wanted to do some light touring. I then got the bug and bought front and rear racks and panniers. I can carry camping/cooking kit, clothes/food etc for extended trips. The extra weight means more gearing was required from the stock 11-34T cassette and 105 50-34T chainrings.
After much research I went for Absolute Black 46-30 oval sub compact chainrings, which were a doddle to set up with the standard 105 front mech. The advantages of oval rather than round are a moot point for some, but I ‘think’ I feel a difference! We’ll see when I do some proper touring on this set up!
I swapped the 11-34T cassette for a 11-42T. This was a bit of a leap of faith. I knew (having read this article above), that a 11-40T would work, but I wanted to get as much as I could so I gambled with a 11-42T. I had to swap out the 105 rear derailleur for an Ultegra GS (medium cage) derailleur and as I was putting it on my gravel bike, I went for the RX model with the switchable clutch mechanism.
It works!
I had to use pretty much all of the ‘B-Screw’ adjustment, but everything else was plain sailing with the set up.
GEARING
LOWEST GEARING with 35mm tyres
ARANGEMENT INCHES
Checkpoint STOCK 27.24 (34F/34R)
105Chainset 34/50 36T rear 25.61 (34F/36R) (Current bike)
Absolute Front 30/46 +36T 22.61 (30F/36R)
Stock Front + Rear42T 22.00 (34F/42R)
IDEAL setup 30F 42R 19.40 (30F/42R)
Cost –
Absolute Black rings 30/46 £145
XT 40T Cassette CS-M8000-11 £60
Ultegra Rear Mech RD-RX-800-GS £67
Ultegra/XT Chain HG-701 £19
£291
This seems expensive, but you have to replace a worn out drivetrain at some point, and the clutch mech works really well off road. I can now ride up 14% climbs fully loaded and remain seated and spinning. For me – it’s worth the effort and cost.
Thank you so much for this. I
Thank you so much for this. I have the same configuration (AbsoluteBlack sub compact, long cage derailler) and it gave me the confidence to go to a 42 tooth cassette. Used 116 links ou of 118 links on a new chain (!).
Works flawlessly.
This paper gave me the
This paper gave me the confidence to have a 11/40 cassette fitted on my grx 11 bike instead of the stock 11/32. Thank to the Author.
Works nicely, but I didn’t dare try the big-big combination!
A little bit outdated, isn’t
A little bit outdated, isn’t it?
Thinking of the GRX…
Anyway, I rode a good part of the TNR-diy this last september using a FSA 46/30 crank and a SRAM 11/36 cassette, Force 22 front and back long cage mech on my Mason Bokeh all inspired by this article. Bike worked a treat. I didn’t.
I have 8 speed on my triban
I have 8 speed on my triban and climbing is a pain as I live on the border of the dales & the forest of bowland. I’d love to get more gears but this seems way too confusing for me to manage without having a stroke lol
This was such a great article
This was such a great article and one I wish I’d had access to quite a while back when I was trying to figure things out. I didn’t realize that you could pair XTR and XT with Ultegra Di2…I thought that wasn’t possible, or, did I misunderstand?
I ended up going with a Rotor direct mount crankset. Easy to swap out either a 50/34, 48/32, or 46/30. I run that with 11-speed Ultegra Di2 GS cage and a Sram 11-36 cassette. I can use this on either gravel or regular road riding. On the low end, the SRAM Cassette paired with the 48/32 offers me a more useable range of gears when riding on the road and in the hills. With the 32 upfront, I have a 36, 32, 28, 25 in back – 4 gears for climbing. These ratios make more sense as I get older and also allows me my cadence between 60-110 and I now have options to actually vary my training in the hills. I wish I could give up a gear or 2 on the high end…a cassette 13-36(38) would be possible and makes more sense since I’m not bombing downhill. I try to avoid hospitals these days.
This is super helpful.
This is super helpful. Question with regard to my bike – I bought this funky Slingshot gravel bike and want to replace my cassette and I assume, RD . It has Dura Ace 7801 shifters, crankset is a 50/34 with a FD 7800, and currently riding a CS 6700, I believe it’s only a 11-28. If I were to replace my RD to a GS, and keep my 50/34, would this 11-40 work? Would I need to buy a 11 speed chain so it’ll go over the 50? My two thoughts are: 1. will my shifters work with whatever mod I do, 2. I am debating keeping my 50/34, so just making sure my 10 speed setup is going to work with the 11 speed chain and only modifiying the RD and cassette to a 11-40. Actually, third thought – think I could actually do the 11-42 on the back? Thanks in advance !
I have done all this to my
I have done all this to my Cannondale Synapse 105 Carbon bought Dec 19. Front 40-36 and rear 11-40 and it all works very well but I get a lot of chain slap and clunking from the bottom of the rear mech as though the chain is now too lose. Do I need to shorten the chain from the original that fitted 50-34? I think given the manufacture date on the bike that it has the Shadow mech and comparing the pictures I can see no difference that is obvious to me. We have hills round Stroud and i am not getting any younger!