This article was originally published in August 2015
Should we ride with a rear light on during the daytime? Or perhaps we should go further and ride with both front and rear lights on even when the sun is shining?
We had a forum topic about this issue on road.cc a couple of years ago and what you might call a heated debate when Bontrager announced its Flare R rear light, designed specifically for daytime visibility, earlier in the year.
The reason we’re thinking about it again is that we went to visit Trek last week and the brand is really keen to promote the use of rear lights during the day. It even had the members of Trek Factory Racing ride the prologue of this year’s Tour de France on time trial bikes fitted with the Flare R “to promote awareness of the most important cycling accessory available today”.

Of course, your cynical side thinks that Trek wants to encourage the use of lights in the daytime because Bontrager, it’s sub-brand, produces that Flare R rear light. It’s simply a way of boosting sales.
Trek acknowledges that, of course, it has an interest in selling lights, but says that the key motivation for launching the Flare R was to keep cyclists safe.
“About two years ago, I was in San Diego, and I’m driving along during the day, and I see a biker, a road cyclist, and he’s got a blinking light on the back of his bike, and I thought, ‘That is a great idea,’” says Trek President John Burke. “The only problem is you could barely see his light.
“When I got back to Trek, I put together a team of engineers, and I said, ‘Listen, what I’d really like to see is a light on the back of a bike that can be seen during the day.’ If we could do that, I think it would significantly enhance the safety of cyclists everywhere.”
The result is the Flare R. Here’s John Burke’s short video presentation on the light.
Trek argues that using a light during the day makes sense because that’s when about 80% of cycling accidents occur.
Well, yeah, says your cynical side, but what percentage of cycling takes place during the day? Maybe that figure simply reflects the number of people on bikes during the daytime compared to the number who ride at night.
Trek also argues that, “Studies on accidents resulting in the fatality of a cyclist show that in 40% of all bicycle vs. car accidents, the victim was struck from behind.”
That statistic is from the US. Put a light on the back of your bike, the argument goes, and you’re less likely to be one of them.

“We think products like the Flare R allow a rider to have more control over their safety, putting us in both offensive and defensive positions on the road,” said Trek’s Chris Garrison. “We want to get people talking about increasing their visibility not just at night, but also during the day.”
Chris cites a recent AA-Populous poll as evidence that more cyclist visibility is required. In that poll 91% of drivers said that it’s sometimes hard to see cyclists while driving.
John Sullivan, an RAF pilot and keen cyclist, advised in his paper A Fighter Pilot’s Guide to Surviving on the Roads, “Aviation research shows that contrast is the single most important factor in determining the likelihood of acquiring an object visually – this is why military aircraft camouflage is designed to tone down their contrast.
“On the ground, dark coloured vehicles or clothing will result in reduced contrast against most usual backgrounds, and this is why high visibility clothing (for pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists) and/or bright lights are so important, in the daytime as well as at night.”
Back at Trek, John Burke says, “People should be able to see you all the time. And when they do, you’re going to have a better riding experience. Get a new Flare R, or buy something else. What I care about is making sure you have a really safe cycling season.”

Of course, Trek didn’t invent riding with a rear light on during daylight. Some people have always done it and USE, for example, has been advocating it for years. The British lights brand says that its Exposure Flash front light and Flare rear light (yes, the same name as the Bontrager light) are designed specifically for both daytime and nighttime use (you could argue that USE, like Trek, has a vested interest in promoting more bike light use).
Our man Dave says, “I’ve used the Flare R rear light a lot and I’d say it makes a noticeable difference to the passes you get. Drivers tend to give you more space.”
Of course, that’s anecdotal evidence. If anyone knows of any scientific research that has been carried out, we’d be interested in hearing about it.
So, why do so few of us use lights during the daytime? We guess that most people don’t think it’s necessary, although some oppose the idea in principle.
“When a vehicle has lights on it makes any in front or behind without harder to see,” said Simon E in that road.cc thread mentioned earlier. “Every vehicle that runs with sidelights/LEDs/DRLs [daytime running lights] in the daytime is furthering the idea that you have to have lights on to be seen, so all the sheeple do the same. Baaaa! This means drivers to look only for lights, not other vehicles or people.
“Lights are NOT needed in daylight, whether on bikes, motorbikes or cars.”
In a comment under our story announcing the launch of the Flare R, McVittees said, “Whilst it is perfectly reasonable to want to run as bright a rear light as possible either during the day to warn cars or at night when riding on unlit country roads, I hate being stuck behind someone who is running a high output rear light at night during my urban commute. I find it distracting and obscures my vision of the road (and thus traffic) ahead.”
andyp said, “[Bontrager are] pouring money into something which will make them more money, not into solving a problem.”
What do you reckon? Do Trek’s arguments convince you that you should use a rear light during the day? Let us know what you think.




















212 thoughts on “Are daytime bike lights a safety essential? Should you get daytime lights?”
Most collisions occur as
Most collisions occur as drivers don’t look, either long enough or at all.
This is bullshit from a company that makes and sells lights and wants to sell more.
Where is the evidence that daytime lights save cyclists lives?
gazza_d wrote:
And there we have the answer, in Post No. 1, waaay back when this article was first published.
Everything else is just noise, IMO.
My commuter bike has hub
My commuter bike has hub dynamo lighting, and I leave it on all the time. The front light probably doesn’t make much difference in daylight, but I like having the rear light set to always on; that way when it gets cloudy or you go under a bridge, you’ve got that extra ‘notice me’ element. I agree with Gazza that the main problem is drivers not looking, but having the option of daytime running lights is one that I appreciate.
I wouldn’t like this to
I wouldn’t like this to become mandatory,
but I think its a good idea.
I personally notice other cyclists from farther away when they have lights on, even during the day.
I have no evidence to back up this opinion.
I have lights on all the
I have lights on all the time. One less excuse for other road users not to see me.
I keep my rear light fitted
I keep my rear light fitted during the day, so its there if I need it – but should the lights be on as a rule during the day?
NO
The biggest issue is run -time. In order to be useful the lights will been to be very bright, which means that run times will be at a premium. How many will last an 8 hour ride?
Does not make sense to me to have the light on all day, only for it to run out of juice just as the evening gloom is starting to set in.
However it is sensible to switch on the lights an hour or two before sunset – when the sun is low it can make visibility difficult, and anything we can do to stand out in front of a glaring sun is worthwhile. Similarly worth having the light on during rain and mist etc
there’s a full review of the
there’s a full review of the Flare R coming, but for the record here are the things i like about it:
1) it has two sensible steady modes for night and group riding
2) it has two pretty brutal flashing modes that are genuinely visible in the daytime from a really long way away
3) it comes with a good mount and a neat clip for clothes or the back of a bag
4) it’s nicely made
and does it make a difference in the daytime? well, anecdotally it seems to, yes. you still get crap, impatient passes from people that have seen you but just can’t be bothered to give you decent space. but overall, there are fewer bad passes. i’m not claiming this as a scientific proof, it’s simply my experience of using the light over a couple of months. your mileage may vary, etc and so on.
I ride with lights 100% of
I ride with lights 100% of the time, except today, as I forgot to grab them from charging :S
run time: i mostly use it in
run time: i mostly use it in night flash mode which, incidentally, isn’t a mode i’d use at night because the flash is too bright. stated run time for that is 23hrs. day flash mode run time is stated at 5.75hrs, so not ideal for longer rides
I find myself leaving my
I find myself leaving my front light on flashing mode in more daylight hours these days mostly because of the ‘sun dappled’ country lanes. You can go from bright sunshine into, what for the eyes is, relative darkness, leaving your vision temporarily impaired. In an instance like that for a car coming the other way, having the front flasher on could make the difference between being seen or not.
As for the rear, I’ve got a Fly6 now which is always recording, so there’s always a light on there anyway, but I guess the same thing applies.
Ultimately I can’t see that
Ultimately I can’t see that it can harm (except your wallet) to have a bright rear light during the day. I don’t think it should be mandatory (ditto helmets, high-vis/YJA, reflective clothing), but I think it is more than somewhat cynical to believe Trek are only doing this to line their own pockets (after all they’re hardly a monopoly, indeed Bontrager isn’t the first brand I’d think of with respect to bike lights).
I leave my lights on all the
I leave my lights on all the time. As they are dynamo lights it’s just easier. My rear light also gets brighter when I brake, which is nice.
cant see it making a massive difference though. Just another way of victim blaming.
In tree lined country lanes
In tree lined country lanes on sunny days visibility is a real problem- I nearly always have at least a rear light on. It is a bit like helmets- I don’t see that it can do any harm, and it might help.
But, as with helmets, it must be the individual’s choice/ responsibility.
I agree. Think about those
I agree. Think about those times you’ve been driving with the sun ahead, bouncing off your dashboard and making it difficult to see. You slow down a bit but the tall hedgerow to the left is no longer green, it’s black and completely in the shade. Pedestrians and cyclists can easily be masked by that shade. Not all drivers will slow down, so I keep out of the shade but I also use my rear light (hope district) to reduce the chance of being hit.
Absolutely NOT!
Drivers need
Absolutely NOT!
Drivers need to learn to drive properly, more stringent tests.
Driving is a privilege and not a right (or money making scheme).
~X(
don simon wrote:Absolutely
You’re right with the sentiment. Everything you say is factually correct. I however ride with both lights on all the time, if out for more than a few hours I switch them to a lesser flashing mode to extend the run times. On really long rides I have two rear lights.
The reason is simple. Anything I can do to mitigate risk is worth the extra grams. I want to be riding tomorrow, next week, next year and so on. So to max the chance that this is a possibility, I use my lights on even in the day. Why, if you own them not use them. It’s not a lot to think about in your pre ride checks. ‘Bolts, tyres, brakes, lights, (gps and camera if you have them) Done, get out and ride.
This “only doing it to line
This “only doing it to line their own pockets” argument has never made sense to me.
Tesco don’t sell me food out of the goodness of their hearts. Doesn’t mean I shouldn’t eat.
I’ve always ridden in
I’ve always ridden in daylight hours with a rear light. Personal choice I know and (without waking the victim-blaming evangelists) having been cut across and hospitalised on my motorbike resulting in ruptured artery and lots of internal bleeding and a written off bike, I choose to use anything that might wake up a dozy or distracted driver to my presence.
My rear light of choice is the Niterider Cherry Bomb, which has a half mile visibility and was reasonably priced. The bracket is crap though and needed a little modding.
A few quid on batteries each year, why would you not?
Totally agree I ride with my
Totally agree I ride with my See.Sense lights on all the time.
The problem I had with other lights in the past was they are just not bright enough to be seen during the day.
Anything under 70 Lumen will not be bright enough to be seen on a bright sunny day.
Also the way the light is dispersed is very important they need to have great side visibility.
I see the problem of cyclists
I see the problem of cyclists not being seen on the road getting worse over the next 10 years.
A few years ago a euro law made daytime running lights on vehicles mandatory. Now drivers are used to seeing bright LED’s when there is something in the road. Over time proportion of cars on the roads with daytime running lights is going to get higher and higher. This will make drivers eyes lazy, only looking for a bright light in the road lane.
I suspect it is only a matter of time for LED’s front and rear to be built in to bike frames/ handlebars and powered from the electronic groupset or frame battery (for cable groupsets). The technology is already available, it just needs one leading brand to decide to do it.
Personally i don’t use lights in the day, but make sure i have them for evening rides when there is a chance of being out at dusk.
I’m sensing that most of the
I’m sensing that most of the comments are from sports cyclists who are more likely to be mixing with fast moving traffic on busy roads. On a 70mph dual carriageway in poor visibility a rear light seems a sensible choice (although I would resist it becoming mandatory).
For your typical utility cyclist pootling about town or a leisure cyclist out on a quiet run in the country it’s not necessary. Yet another reason for people to be put off riding a bike.
Look at any video of Dutch people riding bikes during the daytime. Not a red light in sight. See for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpi01x_DgDY
I ALWAYS have a flashing red
I ALWAYS have a flashing red on the go.
The human brain is hardwired to respond to changes in stimuli as a priority & de-prioritise stable state information. Whether consciously or sub-consciously, another road user will be more aware of you with a flashing tail light.
My commute used to be partly along leafy lanes and (even more so on a bright, sunny day) a car driver driving into shade under trees will suffer several seconds of visual acclimatisation; it’s a physiological certainty. They WILL notice a flashing light in the shade of those trees where they might immediately see you otherwise. The earlier another road user notices you, the safer you should be.
Do whatever you can for yourself & stay safe.
I admit, I can be as self-righteous as anyone but I’d rather not do it from a hospital bed.
herohirst wrote:I ALWAYS have
Sometimes I use a flashing rear light in the daytime for this reason – just to ensure I’m noticed. Whether a driver gives me enough room or not is another thing!
I’ve just bought a knog blinder road having seen it on a club-mates bike. Incredibly bright, and has a USB charger.
Yes – we should educate drivers better, police the roads and make improvements to the road infrastructure, but none of these are mutually exclusive with visibility.
Realistically this is a
Realistically this is a sticking plaster solution to dangerous roads. It would be much better to fix our roads and make them safe for all, rather than just try to sell cyclist more stuff.
Kim wrote:Realistically this
What a ridiculous and comically unrealistic aspiration. How do you propose to “fix our roads and make them safe for all”? What exactly will that involve, how long will it take and what will it cost? And what is the likelihood of it ever happening?
Anyway, whilst you are waiting for your perfect world to arrive, you can do *your* bit to make *yourself* more visible (and therefore safer) by spending as little as £20 on a cheap, lightweight set of lights that cost next to nothing to run.
Like these for example;
http://www.evanscycles.com/categories/accessories/lights/f/set#!!price_from=;price_to=158;on_sale=;sort=asc;
There … that’s “realistically” for you.
Thank goodness, I thought I
Thank goodness, I thought I was the only one who lives in the real world. Well said sir.
Kim wrote:Realistically this
While cyclists mix with cars driven by humans in all manner of weather conditions & environments, and in the absence of a world of ‘self-drive’ cars – I’ll continue using my 1W Smart rear light on flash during the day, for extra ‘visibility’.
Kim wrote: I’ll continue
I have one of these as a backup – excellent light and incredible value if you find it on offer somewhere.
I have to admit when it gets
I have to admit when it gets gloomy and cars have their lights on I tend to put mine on too. It helps to be seen from a very long way off.
I see some riders do the same even when it’s bright and sunny, which I think is of no use at all.
Something I noticed this
Something I noticed this morning, cycling along a cycle path and car coming towards me, then as drivers do it turns across in front of me ( I was a little way from junction so no issue) but it was only at the last minute that I noticed it actually had indicators! The DRLs so effectively masked the indicator! this isn’t the first time I have noticed this.
More on topic, If you ride in sunny weather in and out of the cover of trees you can loose sight of things. I can see where a rear light may help, but this comes back to the old CTC argument. Why should bikes have lights, shouldn’t the onus be on the driver to look where the f*** they are going? All those drivers complaining about not cyclists not having lights? If not having lights means you can’t see them how do you know they are there, or is the issue that the drivers don’t have hours to respond, that they aren’t actually paying attention and are simply victim blaming to cover their own crap driving.
http://www.bontrager.com/feat
http://www.bontrager.com/features/flare_r
I don’t know if the image is on a carrousel I don’t think so, just in case, the image of a car driver using a phone following a cyclist, now shall we change the image to a hooded man following a young woman in a short skirt. Where would you put the effort to solve the problem?
mrmo
If I was in the business of selling long skirts……
deleted – quote fail
deleted – quote fail
Road bike has a SP dyno-hub
Road bike has a SP dyno-hub and Exposure Revo/Redeye lioghts on. For commuting, they’re on all the time. For epic multi-day rides, they’re off in the day as GPS-charging takes priority. I’m not going to fit other lights for those situations.
As ever, its cyclist’s choice. Yes, drivers need to be more aware, but it only takes one who isn’t to crush you to death, so what harm can it take to prevent that one from missing seeing you?
As many above have said,
As many above have said, speaking from experience driving my car, you can strike situations where combinations of sun angle, shade, and other factors combine to temporarily blind you. You can’t always anticipate these, and in the time it takes to react you’ve gone 50+ yards.
*anything* that increases your visibility is A Good Thing. Making it mandatory, not so much.
No.
It transfers
No.
It transfers responsibility even further from the looker to the lookee.
I agree with the CTC’s original position and reasoning when they actively campaigned against compulsory lights on cycles during the hours of darkness. At the time a cycle was only expected to have reflectors.
Why am I at 6’2″ perfectly visible to motorists until I throw a leg over a cycle?
Yes I do use lights during the hours of darkness and times of reduced visibility. If there was less light pollution then cycle lights and reflectors would be more effective.
Have daytime running lights delivered the promised reduction in accidents?
I run into a bit of the old
I run into a bit of the old dissonance here.
On the one hand, for numerous reasons I completely resist the notion that bicycles should essentially become cars:
http://singletrackworld.com/columns/2015/02/bez-the-wedge/
But on the other, I use a rear light most of the time. In fact, the overwhelming majority of my riding is done with dyno lighting which I leave it on all the time (front and rear).
There are a few reasons I use a rear light a lot:
– I never have to make a decision about when the conditions have deteriorated enough to warrant turning it on.
– If conditions suddenly deteriorate, such as going under full or dappled tree cover on a bright day, it’s already on.
– I think I get fewer close passes when using a rear light (but this is hard to be objective about).
It’s a pragmatic thing. I’m absolutely against the idea that people should be responsible for being seen, at the expense of the idea that people should avoid driving vehicles into things they failed to see, but equally I don’t want to get hit.
Lights are one of the few things that, to my mind, do make a difference and don’t unduly encumber me; unlike, say, hi-viz clothing. And I’m far more at ease with reasonable adaptations of the vehicle than I am with forcing the user to dress in a certain way.
Devil’s advocate argument: “Making daytime lighting a legal requirement would trigger a sea change in bicycle lighting in the UK. You’d see more use of dynos, more bicycles sold with lighting, and fewer unlit bicycles at night.” Discuss 😉
The image that mrmo pointed out, though— http://www.bontrager.com/features/flare_r —can go and blow a goat. I think that’s a pretty nasty piece of advertising.
This should not be mandatory.
This should not be mandatory. But:
I always race TT with the rear flasher on.
I commute with powerful front and rear lights both set to strobe. Just to make doubly sure in traffic that I’ve made myself as visible as possible. Of course this will only really matter around drivers who were looking, but might have otherwise missed me in the grey blur of the world.
I think it’s especially useful if it’s raining though, visibility from a vehicle does suffer there, so making yourself stand out like a flashing Christmas tree might just save you.
It won’t help me against the fecking ejits who don’t care about my safety, but it might at least go some way to resolve myself of any contrib if I get taken out and their insurance tries to lay some blame on me.
It’s a bit like the helmet debate. But lets not go there.
What is the world coming to
What is the world coming to when we feel the need to strap a flashy light to a 6ft tall lump of metal and meat in order for people nearby to be able to see it in the daytime?
danthomascyclist wrote:What
QFT.
We ride with Cateye Rapid
We ride with Cateye Rapid Mini Rears (USB rechargeable) on during the daylight, especially on the commute when the roads are busier and drivers a little more tense about getting from A-B. It’s even more important to have them on some Sundays as well, as the weather is often typically sh*t and drivers seem hell bent on speeding around lanes at stupid speeds with even less consideration than on a week day. Just my experience. I recommend that light, it’s very low weight and the rapid mode is very visible.
In generally I strongly
In generally I strongly believe that it’s the cyclist’s right to choose either to use light’s during any time of the day. As long as it’s motorist’s responsibility to drive with caution and be aware of cyclists.
I would have to disagree with Trek, because this would cause to be a mandatory law on cyclists. I would rather leave it up to the cyclists to choose whether to have his lights on or off.
In all the decades I’ve been
In all the decades I’ve been riding, I’ve never been rear ended by a motor vehicle.
I’ve been side swiped by people being not aware that I’m still alongside them when they’ve turned in. I’ve had the usual dozy pillock pull out indicating right whilst looking left or with the phone over their eyes…. All the head-ons have been at night with relatively bright lights. But never had my back wheel driven onto.
I’m very sceptical at the usefullness of rear lights in daylight other than blind and annoy those behind.
Cue posting tomorrow morning ranting about the pillock that drove into the back of me.
I unfortunately have been
I unfortunately have been rear ended while cycling. I, and the vehicle that hit me were stopped at traffic lights with a left filter. We were both going straight on. When the left filter lights changed to green the driver started forward, despite our light being red and me still sitting in primary in front. No amount of rear lighting will help against careless, un-observant drivers.
markyjl wrote: No amount of
That’s not really a reason not to have it though.
If a lack of blinking red
If a lack of blinking red lights were the secret to making the UKs roads safer, this would be the perfect solution…
Look at the places in the world where cycling is safest, then ask yourself what impact this is likely to have, and how much more ‘safety’ stuff cyclists will become obliged to use to avoid contributory negligence claims while we gaze across the Channel at a country where you are more likely to die drowning than on a bicycle.
Makes perfect sense,
Makes perfect sense, particularly on club runs (not flashing though)! I can’t find any argument against having day lights.
On most days I won’t bother if it’s very sunny out, in fact, all the “incidents/near misses” I’ve had recently have been due to cars pulling right across in front of me at a junction. I cycle in the middle of the lane at junctions and have a high viz orange helmet, I highly doubt a little LED light (on the front) would stop this happening (sadly).
After many years riding my
After many years riding my motorcycle with lights on I have taken this on board when cycling to some degree using my rear light on a regular basis.
I would like to think drivers should be perfect but there not and I value my life.
Yes, I use lights all the
Yes, I use lights all the time on road.
They weigh hardly anything, I don’t need to worry about being caught out by bad weather etc as the lights are already there. They run on rechargeable batteries and last a week of commuting or a weekend of longer rides.
They’re very useful in summer along sunlight dappled country lanes, they really stand out.
I urge everyone to react
I urge everyone to react against this shameful piece of advertorialising by Trek by going out and getting a See Sense or Exposure FLARE instead…………….
There’s EU studies to back up
There’s EU studies to back up a net reduction in accidents on motor vehicles
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/vehicles/doc/consultations/drl_trl.pdf
I run a flasher on the back all the time. Despite the argument that drivers should do the “right” thing, I’ll take anything I can to make dying less likely.
Spiny wrote:
I run a flasher
I’d agree. I’m fairly comfortable about the potential dangers in front of me because I can usually anticipate them and take avoiding action. It’s the danger from behind that most concerns me because I won’t see it coming.
I do think a flashing red light may help … it might even penetrate the peripheral vision of a texting driver just in time for them to be alerted.
Again it is anecdotal but it does seem to me that most vehicles pass me with a significantly wider berth when I am running a flashing rear light in the daytime.
There’s been some (Danish,
There’s been some (Danish, paywalled) research suggesting that DRLs lead to about a 50% reduction in bad crashes: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.aap.2012.07.006
It’s not ironclad, but it’s (ahem) way better methodology than any helmet research I’ve ever heard.
I ended up with hub driven DRLs, and put them on my kid’s bikes. I ended up there not because of victim-blaming, as much but because removing the switch removed a point of both human and mechanical failure, and if I build mine like I build theirs, no arguments about kids vs grownups.
However, and this gets to awareness-test issues and poorly-trained drivers, it seems (anecdotally, not data at all) like I have had many fewer unpleasant interactions with drivers since turning on the DRLs. My pet theory is that a whole lot of driver irritation and bad behavior is caused by their “surprise” at cyclists “darting” (i.e., suddenly materializing where eyes were looking but brain was not) into the road, and DRLs do a lot to reduce that surprise. Note that some light manufacturers are *finally* using a minor flicker rather than an eye-popping flash to attract attention, and that is a very good thing. Hub driven DRLs with a good-sized cap on them will flicker at low speeds, but steady bright once you are moving (note — mine are home-made, hence cheaper, also much more water-tolerant than the $$$ ones).
In terms of vs. helmets, I think DRLs are somewhat different:
(1) actual RCT study testing effectiveness, vs none for helmets.
(2) no extra effort for me to use; get on bike and go.
(3) obvious when they need replacement.
(4) don’t get nasty and smelly with sweat.
(5) crash prevention, not crash mitigation.
I tend to always have my
I tend to always have my Smart LED with me even if it isn’t attached. I tend to use it during daylight if I feel that light conditions are poor or if I’m going to be in a lot of traffic (such as commuting). I agree with another comment about running lights on other vehicles. More and more have them and this means not having some form of light makes bikes even less obvious. Which is why I’d run them in a heavily trafficked commute area.
It’s all very well moaning about poor driving and roads, which I will continue to do, but that will change nothing. Having the “moral” high ground will do you no good when a 5 Series is parked on your legs.
I’ve ridden and driven
I’ve ridden and driven thousands of miles in my 50 years. Two years ago, whilst driving, I was approaching an angled t junction near where I live, one I was very familiar with. I looked briefly and thought it was clear to go, so started to accelerate. For some unknown reason I checked again, and there was a cyclist maybe 3 m away on the main road. If I hadn’t have looked again, I am sure I would have hit him, and the consequences for both of us would have been awful.
It’s changed my approach to driving. Make yourself slow down and check everything properly the first time, and then check it again. If I, as a very keen cyclist and someone who is proud of his driving, could nearly take another cyclist out due to a moment of lax concentration, what about the rest of the numbnuts who shouldn’t be driving anyway?
If I ever hear the phrase “Sorry mate I just didn’t see you” it makes my blood boil. It isn’t good enough to be getting behind the wheel of your car with that attitude.
What’s this got to do with cyclists and lights? I don’t at the moment run a light in the day time. I do have at least two front and rear for night riding though. I had a very unpleasant experience of a Sunday ride following someone with a Knog Blinder (I think it was) and it felt like my retinas were on fire. It made the ride more dangerous in my mind.
That isn’t the same as a strobing light making a cyclist more visible and safer to traffic though. If it makes close passes less common, then it has to be a good thing.
I have been using a
I have been using a Magicshine MJ-818 rear light (85 lumens) in flash mode for the last few years. Very visible, even on a bright sunny day.
Battery is located in seat pack and gets charged once a week.
Does it make a difference? In my opinion it does and anything that makes you feel more confident on the road can only be a good thing.
I use an Exposure Flare R
I use an Exposure Flare R (same name, different manufacturer again) rear light on all but very bright days since noticing that cars give me more space when passing if the rear light is on.
Mandatory? Not for me,
Mandatory? Not for me, personal choice.
Much rather see helmets made law but that’s another story…………….
I’ll ride with a rear light
I’ll ride with a rear light when the weather conditions decree it, only when it’s raining but then the vehicles are using their sidelights in such conditions too.
very interesting analysis
very interesting analysis here.
link is from a poster on another thread on this site.
http://www.slobc.org/safety/documents/road-survival-guide.pdf
I guess most rider leave
I guess most rider leave their lights on their bikes most of the time, why not use them to give added visibility even during the day.
I bought several Cygolite hotshot rear lights and they are the brightest rear light I have come across. All my family use them. I also have Niterider lumina 750 front lights, again extremely bright, all are rechargeable, removable and compact.
For the truly curious, or the
For the truly curious, or the terminally bored at work, there’s a long list of studies regarding day time running lights for vehicles on the Wikipedia page about them (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daytime_running_lamp).
I can understand the argument of “drivers shouldn’t need a light to not hit someone”, but it seems to me than a daytime running light is a bit like adopting primary position on the road and maximises your safety.
Always use lights, even in
Always use lights, even in daylight, because conditions exist on the road where they help.
Bright sunlight means deep shadows, cars in the light cannot see riders in the shadows ahead of them. Rear lights help this.
Front lights are even more effective for cars pulling out of side streets. Typically they only give a quick glance when they pull out, but my urban-550 flasher means they never miss me. The difference is very noticeable, and probably measurable.
This is also how I see it. I
This is also how I see it. I ride in rural Somerset and even on a bright sunny day in summer there are some narrow lanes near me with dense tree cover extending right over the road, going from bright sunshine into near dark. I am very aware of how difficult it might be for a driver to see me when on such a lane and for this reason I started using daytime flashing LED lights.
As its not practical to switch the lights on and off all the time on a ride (you end up forgetting) I have now got into the habit of switching them on at the start of a ride and off at the end. I favour AAA lights over USB as I can always have a set of eneloupe rechargeables ready to replace flat ones.
mduncombe wrote:This is also
Doesn’t really matter how many lights we stick on – thick dozies will still be thick dozies. I had a near miss with one last night – assuming she’s not blind the woman saw me, because she was looking straight at a 6’3″ prop forward dressed as a banana, in broad daylight. She pulled out to overtake the car in front of her anyway, then pulled back in when it finally penetrated her brain that I was not riding at the 3 mph her small child is probably capable of on a pushbike. Frankly, no amount of additional lighting would have made the slightest difference.
That is an understandable
That is an understandable comment but please also look at this. It gives a scientific explanation of why bikes may not “seen” by drivers in certain situations due to the way the human brain processes visual information. Even the best of us are at risk of of being “Dozies” when driving a vehicle.
http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/
notjustacyclist wrote:That is
I presume this was a reply to my comment about a ‘dozy’ pulling out to overtake when I was in the road space she would have needed to travel through to complete the manoeuvre. Yes, I have read the article you linked to – to believe it is in some way relevant requires me to believe that the woman was somehow not seeing properly the thing that was in the space she was about to enter. The implications of that are seriously scary, and if you really believe it you should be campaigning to remove drivers from the roads, not messing about with flashy lights.
Making lights compulsory in
Making lights compulsory in daytime will just be another layer of victim blaming to distract from serious safety concerns. While people argue the toss about helmets, hi-viz, vehicular cycling etc the real changes to our streets cape that are required are not discussed.
Once we have safe routes then individuals can campaign for their personal safety hobby horse (lucky heather compulsory on all new bikes) but until then try to stick on message and not get sidetracked.
Bill H wrote:Making lights
When it comes to cycling, I tend to agree with Edna Moda that the approach should be (strictly) “no capes”.
Sorry Surely, that was spell
Sorry Surely, that was spell check on my iPad. God’s honest! #o
Hi all, great comments on
Hi all, great comments on here, and it’s good to see people having a conversation about daytime visibility because ultimately, we at least want to get people thinking about it.
A few points:
-We are in no way advocating the idea that there should be regulation that mandates the use of lights during the day.
-We have not created the Flare R for the purposes of solely placing the responsibility for our safety on us as riders. We completely agree that the solution is better driver training, better infrastructure, and a more Dutch/Danish style transport culture in general.
-Please read the link Mat has provided to John Sullivan’s report. It’s a great read in general, but also provides really useful information about how we interpret visual inputs, and the speed at which we can process them.
-We wish we could point you to some peer-reviewed study that demonstrates the effects of the Flare R, but we can’t. As far as we know, it doesn’t exist. However, we do know about optics and how the brain processes various visual stimuli, so there are some elements of science behind why we know, albeit anecdotally, that using the light does have an impact.
-As Dave mentioned, even with the Flare R, you will still get people making terribly bad decisions when driving near you. This is not the be all/end all solution. It just makes you have a bit more of a say, and hopefully eliminates SMIDSY excuses.
A couple of technical notes:
-Using a light typically designed for night use is potentially not bright enough. It depends on the beam pattern, and how wide a viewing angle it has.
-There are brighter lights available, but this light was designed to maximise the visual output of the 65 lumen it has during daylight. The optics are designed to create the most visible beam pattern possible, so even though you can find lights with higher lumen count, the Flare will appear much brighter due to the lens design.
-The beam pattern range is 270 degrees, so quite wide.
-While runtime in full daytime mode is sub-6 hours, for longer rides you can get away with running the other mode, which has one flash that is as bright as full day mode. It will dramatically increase battery life and at least provide the same level of brightness in one interval of the flash pattern.
It’s unfortunate that there are those who think the Flare R was created either as a way for us to make more money, or to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. We are in the business of developing new products, both bikes and accessories, so of course we have a vested interest in being profitable so that we can continue to be on the leading edge of technology in the bike industry. We reinvest back into the R&D phase of everything we do, because costs a huge amount of money to engage in multi-year research projects for something like the Flare R. Then there is the prototype phase, and, in some cases, hiring people who have specialist knowledge of a product. In this case, optics.
As far as how much of a problem visibility actually is, that’s where we do have a wealth of evidence to choose from. Anyone familiar with Rachel Aldred’s Near Miss Project will understand that there is indeed an issue with not just visibility, but the perception that drivers have about cyclists.
As John Burke says in the video, even if you don’t get a Flare R, get SOMETHING that makes it harder for drivers to not see you.
TrekBikesUK wrote:It’s
I would have to admit that reading the article that was my 1st thought.
What it has done however is provoke debate & that can only be healthy. It’s certainly made me think about whether I need something or not.
as a rule i generally ride
as a rule i generally ride with a rear light on flash during the day.
the way i look at it, people are less likely to drive into the back of me with it on, it’s probably more effective than wearing a high-viz (and doesn’t look crap), and it doesn’t slow me down.
I do 25 commuting miles a day, and even though people shouldn’t be on their phones, reading the paper, etc. they still do it and they’re always going to.
at least a bright flashing red light might give me a chance of getting noticed out of the corner of someone’s eye whilst they’re updating their facebook status.
Quote:
I was in San Diego,
Tells you most of what you need to know about this: a car driver that makes bike bits decided to make another bike bit.
No evidence presented as to the effectiveness of this at all.
Ush wrote:Quote:
I was in
Read our comment two posts up.
TrekBikesUK wrote:Ush
Read our comment two posts up.
I think you and I have a different understanding of the words “evidence presented as to the effectiveness”. I am looking for a reasonable statistical presentation which demonstrates that there is a measurable effect from running daytime rear lights.
I wonder how on earth your boss managed to see the bicycle with the puny light in the first place?
Ush wrote:
I think you and I
It was mentioned in the previous comment that we don’t have a peer-reviewed study about this that we can reference. However, there’s data about motorcycles that shows the use of lights during the day is effective.
I kill two birds with one
I kill two birds with one stone and ride with my Fly6 on all the time, as it’s the original version I have to have the light on.
Sods law, with my main bike in the shop for the day, I got knocked off my other bike that didn’t have the fly6 on. Wouldn’t have helped as someone decided to pull a u-turn as i overtook a traffic que.
I can see no reason not to
I can see no reason not to ride with lights!
They weigh next to nothing, no one is putting peoples arm up their back to use them and I have yet to see any sensible or compelling argument against their use.
The “Ah yes but” brigade will no doubt bore us sensless with any number of silly reasons why we should not ever have to ride with lights, (day or night probably) but as long as they are kept busy grinding their little choppers on this issue they are not annoying anyone on more serious matters.
WashoutWheeler wrote:I can
And pedestrians too, they should obviously be included in this line of thought. After all your odds of being run down while walking are about the same as when cycling. And the lights weigh hardly anything …..
mike the bike
Good point.
I’d say I have as many issues with pedestrians who just step out without looking as they don’t hear an engine as I do with motorists.
mike the bike
We should wrap the pedestrians in some sort of protective layer as well. Perhaps they could be put in some sort of bubblewrap or polystyrene box, and the posted places instead of having to venture out unprotected. And then the box could be covered in lights. And everything would be okay!
The advocate of this
The advocate of this victim-blaming strategy argues that it “hopefully eliminates SMIDSY excuses”
No it doesn’t . It backs up the whole SMIDSY philosophy.
For evidence on the conspicuity cone see Chapter 9 here http://rdrf.org.uk/death-on-the-streets-cars-and-the-mythology-of-road-safety/ For why it’s victim-blaming and ineffective in both short (and certainly long) term see also http://rdrf.org.uk/2013/10/31/hi-viz-for-cyclists-and-pedestrians-sensible-precaution-or-victim-blaming/ and related posts.
After a while a red herring such as this is not only of negligible or zero effect, it feeds into a culture which allows the problem to become more entrenched, thus raising the prospect of NEGATIVE effect.
ChairRDRF wrote:For why it’s
Just a quick point – the stopping distance figure in that article should probably be corrected viz
From Road CC in 2018:
“TREND
From Road CC in 2018:
“TREND SPOTTING: Should we be wearing body armour on-road as well as when doing downhill mountain biking?”
Manufacturer X thinks we should be wearing their body armour/knee/shin/elbow protectors with full-face lids, although other stuff may be relevant and they don’t want it to be compulsory.
Loads of commenters write: ” I wear Manufacturer X (or Y or Z) produced body armour/knee/shin/elbow protectors with full-face lids and they have saved my life/saved from serious injury dozens of times. So get the kit or it’s your fault. And I’m not victim-blaming”.
I bet you it will come. Maybe before 2018. And, above all, do not expect any rational argument to dissuade the advocates.
ChairRDRF wrote:From Road CC
Bet you it won’t. See you back here in a couple of years.
ChairRDRF wrote:
I bet you it
Compulsory body armour within 30 months! The Highway Code’s not changed at all since 2007. How much are you wagering?
atgni wrote:ChairRDRF
Compulsory body armour within 30 months! The Highway Code’s not changed at all since 2007. How much are you wagering?— ChairRDRF
It is not too many years since only Yankee visitors wore a cycle helmet in Britain.
My comment is this
Where I
My comment is this
Where I live and ride there is a lot of narrow tree covered roads
When the sun is out it casts very strong shadows of the trees across the road. The light and dark shadows are so strong it obscures pot holes and other road debris.
I find myself using a rear facing light during the day for safety reasons
If I can’t see potholes, drivers can’t see me or my bike.
A flasher immediately solves that problem.
Despite views from many who feel Bontrager is only looking for ways to cash in. I feel much safer because I use a light during the day
My 2 cents
Can someone explain the
Can someone explain the followign to me?
As an mtber one of the first rules is never to look at something be it a rock or tree or whatever as you will hit it.
Yet on the road so many people are “shouting” “Look at me, look at me.”
How come there are more rear enders as driver attention is attracted to the bright flashy light just like a moth to a flame?
To Trek and other light companies, How far ahead do you think a cyclist needs to make their presence known. Do I as a car driver really need to know that a bike is say a mile away or in heavy traffic 2 minutes away? At what point do you think it essential to let other know you are there or is it a case that people have all fallen into the brighter is better trap?
Yorkshie Whippet wrote:Can
Good questions. Jan Heine posted this last year https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/04/12/when-more-visible-%E2%89%A0-safer-target-fixation/
If Trek sold the lights at
If Trek sold the lights at near cost price, then I’ll believe without any salt.
Like when Volvo gave away their patent for three point seatbelts, now that, deserve to be praised.
Alankk wrote:If Trek sold the
We aren’t using proprietary technology in the Flare, so really anyone is already free to develop similar products.
While many may argue that one
While many may argue that one shouldn’t need a light to be seen, as people should be looking harder, it is fairly plain to see that we as humans are pretty rubbish at consistently spotting everything we need to spot on the road. Anything that makes it less likely that someone will fail to notice you is likely to reduce the chances of an accident.
I also know from driving experience that it can be hard to quickly see cars (let alone bikes) when moving into dark shady areas from bright sunshine, and DRLs really conspicuity safety here.
I’d rather be safe than take a moral stand on hoping people will look harder.
However, I would strongly argue against making them compulsory.
I run a bright flashing light front and rear in all conditions on the road. Smart R1 rear and Moon Meteor 200 front. At night I angle the front light down towards the road and use it in constant mode so I can see where I’m going.
Just on the subject of car
Just on the subject of car DRLs: in Europe they’re now compulsory fitting on all new cars. http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/topics/vehicles/daytime_running_lights/index_en.htm
I ride with a rear light on whenever it’s dim/cloudy/rainy/etc.
Gizmo_ wrote:Just on the
A disaster for safety in my opinion. Research in Sweden found drl had no benefit to accident rates but actually increased accident rates for motorbikes (presumably because they no longer stood out) But if cars are going to be using them they will be more necessary for everyone else.
Compulsory daytime lights on
Compulsory daytime lights on a car are IMHO as good a reason as you’re gonna get not make them compulsory on a bike.
Smacks of “just because” rather than facts it reduces accidents.
There must be some real data
There must be some real data somewhere about rear end crashes for Barclays bikes. Although I guess you’d have to run them all without flashing lights for a period to make any valid comparisons.
I always ride with a blinker
I always ride with a blinker going 😀 but i replace the batteries every 6 weeks .
I will replace it with a USB one as a believe the software inside it will always give 100% whilst a AAA version will slowly lose brightness .
cateye 1200 on front / blackburn 1 on back
Whoops! A few posts back I
Whoops! A few posts back I refer to the “conspicuity cone”. I meant “con”, not “cone”.
Quote:While many may argue
Unfortunately there is plenty already in place to make the life of a cyclist more secure in the form of the Highway Code, I see no reason why the addition of a light is going to make drivers drive with any more care. I find this type of conversation counter productive as your average muppet driver will simply try and use it as another tool for victim blaming. I didn’t see the bike as he wasn’tt wearing hi-viz or using a light.
Again I’ve never had an issue with this, I usually change my driving speed or am extra vigilant. The only lime a light would be useful is when the sun is in the eye line and the driver can’t be arsed adjusting their driving style to suit the conditions, just like what it says in the Highway Code.
I was out for a walk yesterday and some of the roads are narrow and without pavement. The level of driving was truly atrocious, there appears to be an assumption that cars have some kind of divine right to be there and nothing was to impede their progress. I was brushed by one car, had two stop just before hitting me and numerous pass me dangerously close. Hi-viz or a light would not have benefitted me at all as I was easily seen, the drivers just weren’t concentrating.
This country is a horrible place to be on the roads and I’m afraid comparing the UK to other countries won’t wash either. The attitude here is different. For example, the scaffold wagon that tried to run me off the road had been sat behind me for two minutes at the traffic lights. If he hadn’t seen me, how was it possible for his passenger to give me the bird as he was driving at me?
The people who punishment pass then justify it by telling me I should ride in the gutter?
All these victim blaming stickers telling cyclists not to pass them on the inside. Seriously?
And it’s not just restricted to cars v cyclists. It’s the pavement parker who blocks wheelchair access, it’s the summer music being played loudly that annoys the neighbours, it’s the queue jumper at the supermarket, it’s the neighbours who block access for sporting/music events….. Etc…
It’s a selfish country and until this is addressed there will always be a problem and a silly little light isn’t going to resolve it.
….And breathe…
don simon wrote:Quote:While
Unfortunately there is plenty already in place to make the life of a cyclist more secure in the form of the Highway Code, I see no reason why the addition of a light is going to make drivers drive with any more care. I find this type of conversation counter productive as your average muppet driver will simply try and use it as another tool for victim blaming. I didn’t see the bike as he wasn’tt wearing hi-viz or using a light.
Again I’ve never had an issue with this, I usually change my driving speed or am extra vigilant. The only lime a light would be useful is when the sun is in the eye line and the driver can’t be arsed adjusting their driving style to suit the conditions, just like what it says in the Highway Code.
I was out for a walk yesterday and some of the roads are narrow and without pavement. The level of driving was truly atrocious, there appears to be an assumption that cars have some kind of divine right to be there and nothing was to impede their progress. I was brushed by one car, had two stop just before hitting me and numerous pass me dangerously close. Hi-viz or a light would not have benefitted me at all as I was easily seen, the drivers just weren’t concentrating.
This country is a horrible place to be on the roads and I’m afraid comparing the UK to other countries won’t wash either. The attitude here is different. For example, the scaffold wagon that tried to run me off the road had been sat behind me for two minutes at the traffic lights. If he hadn’t seen me, how was it possible for his passenger to give me the bird as he was driving at me?
The people who punishment pass then justify it by telling me I should ride in the gutter?
All these victim blaming stickers telling cyclists not to pass them on the inside. Seriously?
And it’s not just restricted to cars v cyclists. It’s the pavement parker who blocks wheelchair access, it’s the summer music being played loudly that annoys the neighbours, it’s the queue jumper at the supermarket, it’s the neighbours who block access for sporting/music events….. Etc…
It’s a selfish country and until this is addressed there will always be a problem and a silly little light isn’t going to resolve it.
….And breathe…
Sounds like you need to battle your way through the Channel Tunnel and not come back if you feel so strongly negative about this country. Then just leave it for the rest of us who enjoy riding here with DRL’s or not!
No-Chain wrote:don simon
Unfortunately there is plenty already in place to make the life of a cyclist more secure in the form of the Highway Code, I see no reason why the addition of a light is going to make drivers drive with any more care. I find this type of conversation counter productive as your average muppet driver will simply try and use it as another tool for victim blaming. I didn’t see the bike as he wasn’tt wearing hi-viz or using a light.
Again I’ve never had an issue with this, I usually change my driving speed or am extra vigilant. The only lime a light would be useful is when the sun is in the eye line and the driver can’t be arsed adjusting their driving style to suit the conditions, just like what it says in the Highway Code.
I was out for a walk yesterday and some of the roads are narrow and without pavement. The level of driving was truly atrocious, there appears to be an assumption that cars have some kind of divine right to be there and nothing was to impede their progress. I was brushed by one car, had two stop just before hitting me and numerous pass me dangerously close. Hi-viz or a light would not have benefitted me at all as I was easily seen, the drivers just weren’t concentrating.
This country is a horrible place to be on the roads and I’m afraid comparing the UK to other countries won’t wash either. The attitude here is different. For example, the scaffold wagon that tried to run me off the road had been sat behind me for two minutes at the traffic lights. If he hadn’t seen me, how was it possible for his passenger to give me the bird as he was driving at me?
The people who punishment pass then justify it by telling me I should ride in the gutter?
All these victim blaming stickers telling cyclists not to pass them on the inside. Seriously?
And it’s not just restricted to cars v cyclists. It’s the pavement parker who blocks wheelchair access, it’s the summer music being played loudly that annoys the neighbours, it’s the queue jumper at the supermarket, it’s the neighbours who block access for sporting/music events….. Etc…
It’s a selfish country and until this is addressed there will always be a problem and a silly little light isn’t going to resolve it.
….And breathe…— don simon
Sounds like you need to battle your way through the Channel Tunnel and not come back if you feel so strongly negative about this country. Then just leave it for the rest of us who enjoy riding here with DRL’s or not!
I’d forgotten about that point, but thanks for reminding me. The difference I noticed after driving on foreign plates against UK plates is another thing altogether.
I sometimes ride around the
I sometimes ride around the country lanes that are shaded by trees. You can go from a bright road to dark shade on a summers day.
I have a flashing light on whenever I ride; I usually ride routes that go past those kinda country lanes. And anyways, in the UK it always rains 😀
This is why I ride everywhere
This is why I ride everywhere with my Fly6 rear light AND video camera running.
1) It’s fun if riding with friends
2) It’s way safer – drivers do see you better
3) Worse case when accidents happen – you have a legal record
Long term it also changes drivers behaviour – if they know potentially most bikes they encounter are running video – they will drive better around you.
Sad fact of the world we live in – but if it means safer roads – it is worth the investment. Just like body cameras.
I’ve just got back from an 18
I’ve just got back from an 18 mile road ride with my young children. We all had front and rear flashing lights on. Here in the Chilterns, it’s routine to go from very bright sunlight into dark beech tree shade. My own driving experience confirms that there’s a small window of time when crossing from sunshine into shade, especially if wearing sunglasses, when it’s really hard to see anything before your eyes adjust to the shade. That window is enough to hit a cyclist or pedestrian. I slow down, but plenty of drivers don’t. A light reduces the risk. It keeps you visible even in the shade and it might save me from being run down. It’s a cheap and easy way of reducing the many risks. What’s not to like?
Always use my lights during
Always use my lights during the day with the exception of daylight club runs, seems to make sense and its not doing any harm even if it doesn’t make a difference.
I use the Flare and a Cateye 300 set on pulse on the front, both USB charged.
Quote:Sounds like you need to
‘Things could be better here’
‘Well bugger off to somewhere else’
… strangely enough, that dim-witted attitude goes a long way to explaining why the UK is so far behind other places in Europe when it comes to cycling.
Just another reason for
Just another reason for humans driving cars to excuse their poor driving. ‘Well your honour the cyclist wasn’t riding with a rear light so it wasn’t my fault I plowed into him on a straight road in broad daylight with the sun in my eyes’
DRL’s along with hi viz and reflective spray will make not a jot of difference when the human driving the car is distracted by texting/facebook/Web surfing/I player whilst driving.
If lives are really to be saved then education is needed but a that is unlikely to happen us humans on bicycles will need to do all we can.
Even if scientifically
Even if scientifically unproven, there is at least a small chance that a rear light will make you more visible, therefore less likely to be hit. Even if the chance of an accident is only reduced by 5%, surely it is worth it to prevent serious injury? Only downsides being a cost of about £30 and a tiny weight penalty.
Don’t understand those who think that they shouldn’t have use lights in the daytime. Rain, spray, low sun, reflective sun on wet roads, moving from shady to bright areas?
b1uen0se wrote:Even if
There is also a proven but small risk of target fixation.
So would you rather be visible and the target or invisible and not seen?
Or would you rather suffer punishment passes where the driver did see you but didn’t give a f***?
I can see lights can help, not sure they are a panacea, and I would argue more needs to be done about drivers who can see and do see but don’t give enough room because they don’t give a f***
Here in the US I’m in the
Here in the US I’m in the majority of road riders that ride with daytime flashing lights. I also use vertical neon greenish-yellow conspicuity tape, on my shoe heels, which helps grab attention.
ridein wrote:Here in the US
Do road riders in the US get hit less than those in countries which don’t see people running lights in the daytime?
Looks like a copy of the
Looks like a copy of the extremely popular Smart Lunar 0.5w. I often use one on non-blinking during the day.
Perhaps a publicity stunt
Perhaps a publicity stunt but its all about visibility. If I were riding a large motorcycle I’d have my lights on. Always. And wear pink camo gear if it caused a driver to look again. Driver inattentiveness (which I’ve been on the receiving end of !) Could become more of problem. More driver aids should make things easier but more toys equals more potential for driver overload and potential to fail to prioritise which driver aid to use or whether or not to use them at all.
Front and rear always on lights a good idea but we need better traffic segregation, cyclist specific signage and traffic officers who take cycling accidents seriously. Not just the deaths.
But most of all driver education that reflects the distractions and added complications that a modern car can bring. Oh and new test for chelsea tractors.
I have a good tail light that
I have a good tail light that is bright and easy to spot. I always say ‘If you’re going to run over me and kill me then you are going to see me first’. I think it foolish to ride without one as I consider it even more important than a helmet. I see cyclists riding with lights that should not even be allowed to be sold they are so useless. I say a good light is a good investment. Because whether you think someone should see you are not won’t matter if you are roadkill.
psyrog wrote:I consider it
I’m all for anything that keeps cyclists safe but I’m struggling with that one.
Helmets are proven to save lives, rear lights aren’t.
ibr17xvii wrote:psyrog
I am not advocating that everyone runs with daytime lights but I am intrigued by your priorities.
Just so that I have this straight…
What you are saying is that if you are bashed from the rear by a vehicle you’ll be so protected by the helmet that it wasn’t worth bothering being more visible to possibly avoid being bashed?
I’m not being rude but that is taking superstition too far.
Helmets have much more limited benefits than you are giving them credit for. So I would say that you have your priorities backwards. It’s far far better to avoid being hit by a vehicle in the first place than it is to wear protective gear that even the manufacturers will tell you provides only minor head protection. It’s not only your head that’s in danger.
Use lights or don’t that’s up to you but relying on your helmet to take the sting out of a vehicle impact as if it has magical powers against what we muggles call the laws of physics is well….voodoo.
I have used a rear flashing
I have used a rear flashing light for about 6 years now. If I’m on a Club Run in good weather I don’t switch it on, motorists should be able to spot a group of riders, but if the weather turns wet or foggy and the visibility drops I switch it on. If I get dropped or whenever I ride on my own (I am not very tall and ride a low position) I switch it on. My TT position is very low so I always have the light on to help make me more visible. It may or may not work but it definitely makes me FEEL safer, and I’m happy with that.
The councils turn off street
The councils turn off street lights at night in order to reduce energy consumption, and now cyclist are being asked to use more energy by lighting up in the daytime? Modern day logic at its best!!
Quote:We are with you all
While I admire you for coming here and speaking directly with the public, there have been many times where this strategy has gone pear shaped, I can’t help thinking that these dialogues are counter productive and just give ammunition to drivers in their victim blaming (cyclists should wear helmets, cyclists should wear hi viz and now cyclists should have lights during the day, SMIDSY!). And another conversation about what cyclists should be doing to protect themselves is wrong, in my opinion.
I would have far more respect for you guys if you put your money behind a campaign to assist drivers in their hazard perception training. As I said earlier, this is already inplace in the Highway Code and ultimately in the driving test. Media & attitudes in general have made victim blaming acceptable. Media can reverse this trend.
I was on an audax ride on
I was on an audax ride on Saturday. For a few kms we shared the route with a time trial. Many of the TTers were using these but none of the audaxers. This, of course, is due to the quoted 4.75 hour battery life making them only suitable for nipping to the shops or a short TT 😀
I love riding my bike but
I love riding my bike but what I love even more is coming home to my wife and kids in one piece. I always ride with a flashing front and rear light, anything that might save me being cleaned up by a car is worthwhile. I’m still don’t feel 100% safe with so many drivers on their mobile phones, but when I drive I certainly spot a bike with a flashing light before I see one that does not have one.
I don’t think it should be
I don’t think it should be legislated, but I always use a Smart Superflash during the day one at home in Germany, which irritates drivers so you know you’re been seen. Still didn’t stop me getting hit from behind last year by a car doing 100kmh as I was riding into the setting sun.
Even so, I’d never dream of riding a dual-carriageway in Germany. I was driving from the south coast to Dover in July up the A23 in 14 degrees, it was raining, and really dingy at 9am and was astonished to see a road race being run along parts of the A23 in both directions – looked like a death wish to me. Only one of the riders out of 20 that I saw there had a flashing led on the back, the others were more or less invisible
I NEVER ride without my
I NEVER ride without my lights, both front and rear. Anything to improve my odds.
It is just a common sense…
It is just a common sense… As a driver in the city you will come across a situation where sun is shining into your eyes and you can’t see anyone in the shadow of the building… unless it has a blinking light.
In really bright sunlight –
In really bright sunlight – not even a flashing light is visible.
If there’s low sun around – I’m looking for a safer route.
All-though I think these type
All-though I think these type of lamps can be a great tribute to road safety, I have some doubt if the will be a success in the Netherlands (Where I live).
There are a lot of cycle paths here which are separated from the roads where cars ride. A light like the one in the article would only irritate other (commuting) cyclist when you overtake them.
But the biggest reason why I thin they won’t be a success is because Dutch cyclist on racing bikes won’t even put a bell or a saddle on their bike( because of the ‘weight’ or looks is mostly the excuse). So it is still a big step to convince them to use a light during the day.
Personally I use a bell, but I’m not sure if I will buy this kind of lamp jet. It will depend on the price, and blinding effect on other cyclist.
I started having lights front
I started having lights front and rear set to strobe any time I am riding now.
* Twilight is very dodgy for visibility as the sun is low and contrast is at it’s lowest
* Cars going from strong daylight into a wooded lane with canopy cover are temporarily blinded
* Anything that helps, helps!
Yes!!
http://www.dailymotion.
Yes!!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oqwot_designshine-ds-500-taillight-sun_webcam
http://www.designshinelighting.com/content.php?s=eff1b8a8ce15624b6034216f78d884f5
Trek don’t want to keep
Trek don’t want to keep cyclists safe, they want to increase profits for their share-holders. Companies are only interested in peoples safety if it’s good for business.
jazzdude wrote:Trek don’t
The two are not mutually exclusive. Your second sentence suggests you understand this.
jazzdude wrote:Trek don’t
Hi Jazzdude, Trek isn’t a publicly traded company. It’s a family-owned business.
Bike lights in daylight? No.
Bike lights in daylight? No.
The subject of having to make
The subject of having to make an independent safety film is an interesting one. I think the Dept of Information was cut about 5 years ago? No more ‘Charlie says’ or Rolf Harris in the swimming pool with kids…
Gawd but we need the D of I back. I would welcome Clarkson: lecturing folk on what indicators are for – especially on motorways, Tailgating, Using the phone when driving, Leaving your trolley in a parking space at Tescos because you’re too f**king idle to put it back.
Since the 1989’s there has been a steady drop in both road manners and safety because people, like children, need to know the rules and need to be reminded of them. Just like the banks, if you do not constantly remind some people what is right from wrong and not to take the p*ss they will just take the p*ss.
Sorry. Didn’t get my ride in this morning. I’m going away to lie down now..
Civilised behaviour is on the
Civilised behaviour is on the decrease,in line with the deterioration with the discipline of children; I’m ex-Army and discipline is the number one requirement in ensuring consistent and predictable behaviour in people.
No.
No.
This happens all the time
This happens all the time though, its nothing to do with lights.
I have front and rear lights
I have front and rear lights on (a blinky set and a steady set) if it’s dark or otherwise poor visibility. But no way am I going to start having lights on even in good visibility. Sod off! That’s a b****y arms race that we cannot match, let alone win.
What is interesting is that
What is interesting is that their study says 45% of deaths are from crashes from behind ?
So shouldn’t they be looking at the other 60% to address that first ?
I run at least rear LED’s in winter when its gloomy. I’ve missed my riding partner before now – he went through a goth phase and wore all black. He was riding towards me on a dual carriageway and I was looking for him. I missed him completely so he had to chase after me. The three mile chase helped convince him he needed to be brighter.
Bah, humbug …
What is
Bah, humbug …
What is needed is for motorists to use the mark 1 eyeball properly in the 1st place …. to slow down, concentrate and think. We are driving cars as road users, we are there with a job to do and the doing of that job requires us to take care of fellow road users. If that means we can’t text our mates – well, so be it. If that means we have to look for other road users and treat them with the respect that we would hope, say, an HGV driver would treat us, in our far smaller and more vulnerable car – well, that’s part of the cost of driving, too.
Lights during the day only make a rider conspicuous because they are not in normal use – once other road users get used to looking for lights, as others have said, those without lights automatically become “less visible” … so we’ll all start using brighter lights, then the less bright lights will be less visible, and so the crazy escalation goes on.
All we have to do is think how the increasing intensities on car headlights, centrally placed auxilliary brake lights etc – all measures introduced in the name of safety – have in fact all made the need to look more carefully greater than it has ever been, and the chances of *not* seeing an unlit cyclist even in daylight greater as we are dazzled by the plethora of other things that catch the eye’s attention, then we can see where this escalation might lead.
I drive an awful lot of miles in the course of a year and ride a lot, too – and historically have ridden more miles in a year than the average driver drives … and am deeply *not* in favour of daylight running lights for cars / vans / trucks, over-bright headlamps, or, for that matter, daylight lighting for cyclists – these are all unnecessary measures which promote inattention & poor road use.
If we continue down this kind of avenue and fast forward 10 years when we are all using high-intensity lights during the day as well as during the night – and a cyclist without one is killed – will insurance companies, or inattentive drivers (probably too busy relying on their self-braking cars whilst sending a text on their head-up display messaging system) for instance, be able to use “diminished responsibility” to evade prosecution in the way that they are currently trying to do with helmets and cycle lanes?
My lights are a bit like
My lights are a bit like mudguards, they stay on all year round! Riding through tree lined roads in the sun … Light , dark, light , dark…etc then it pisses down!
I’ve been trying out the
I’ve been trying out the Dulwich Paragon 30 mile circuit (heading out of South London) and after about twenty minutes or so you find yourself out of the sunshine into a wooded bit of road – following a few very close wing mirrors decided to put on some of those Argos £5 LED lights, not too heavy and certainly being given more road room …unless it’s the drivers thinking I’m a wally they don’t want to get too close too?
I agree it’s frustrating to have to adopt defensive practices because of bad drivers, probably one day helmets will be compulsory for pedestrians crossing roads?
And then again when you get a nutter who just wants to prove he’s tough and run you into the ditch the light isn’t going to alter that….
[[[[[[ Daytime lights? In
[[[[[[ Daytime lights? In London? Zollocks! When riding in town, with traffic behind you (and in front of you), just ride a slightly wavy line, when safe to do so. The look of alarm on the faces of side-road-emerging drivers and kerb-hovering pedestrians is something I find deeply reassuring. Daytime running-lights are for Volvo’s. In Sweden.
Unfortunately daytime car
Unfortunately daytime car lighting is at the heart of our problem. I remember the time when you couldn’t get people to switch lights on even when they were essential – now you can’t switch the blessed things off.
I long preached, as a motorcycle instructor, to my trainees that they should run with lights on and I don’t see any reason why cycle riders should not do likewise for the same reasons.
A small vehicle needs all the help it can get but the average cycle lamp is useless in the sunlight and with just about every new car on the road showing off its LED running lights full time we have no chance of being picked out even by the precious few motorists who do look for us.
The much maligned and ignored Highway Code still has it right – if you need lights then use them. For my money cars and larger vehicles should have a clause that says ‘do not run lights in daytime’ because they don’t need them and they are a distraction
DRL’s are at the front of
DRL’s are at the front of cars – the main fear cyclists have is being struck from behind – that’s where a bright flashing red light is effective,night and day.
Not convinced by the
Not convinced by the arguments against daytime lighting being given here. If it helps motorbikes/ cycles to be seen then that’s a good thing if anything – so ditto cars, surely, since they have the most potential to harm?
I don’t buy the ‘arms race’ argument either. If you need to use lights to be seen (e.g. in poor daylight, poor weather etc) then they should be used. If you don’t need them but they’re on anyway then surely a cyclist/ car driver will see and be seen regardless of whether they’re on or not. At worst they’re ineffective, but not a distraction.
Now poorly adjusted/ designed lights which dazzle oncoming traffic (like some riders and car drivers insist on using).. that’s a different matter entirely.
(PS I say this as a Volvo driver, who’s lights are always on! – it’s helpful for not having to remember to switch them on I suppose but otherwise I’m ambivalent TBH).
daytime running lights only
daytime running lights only make sense in Scandinavian countries where they have short, murky days… sadly, car manufacturers being cheapskates will make just the one model WITH them and sell into all of the EU…
There is evidence that having lights on in daytime can actually reduce your contrast with the background and make you effectively invisible. They even went as far as fitting lights on the front edges of torpedo bombers and dive bombers so that with the lights on they were harder to see against the sky when making their attack runs…
Yehudi Lights…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehudi_lights
and now being rediscovered to make drones harder to see…
http://www.wired.com/2008/05/invisible-drone/
Paul_C wrote:daytime running
Short murky days, Scotland? Yes, we have those.
Paul_C wrote:daytime running
By this logic a flashing light will invariably result in a change of contrast which is something the human visual system is rather good at picking up.
Paul_C wrote:
There is
Interesting concept, but only relevant to bikes when the background is a light sky
Having seen the difference it
Having seen the difference it makes to the visibility of other riders, the only time I haven’t had my rear light on this year has been (1) at the Velodrome (2) on closed circuit TTs at LVV and Hillingdon and (3) in Spain, where people have a bit more respect and patience and where I was riding in a large group.
FWIW I have the Exposure TraceR, which is the USB version of the Flare (I hope Bontrager has to pay them a lot of money for stealing the name).
I sometimes don’t understand
I sometimes don’t understand fellow cyclists reluctance to adopt a strategy which might give them a greater chance of surviving a ride. It’s all well and good saying “I shouldn’t have to have lights on, drivers should pay attention” but the fact is some drivers don’t pay full attention, and there isn’t anything we can do about that. What we can do though is add a little extra light, or maybe a reflective strip, or high vis jacket, just to make us that little extra visible. That’s something we can control. We aren’t going to change driver attitudes over night.
And another thing, lately when driving home I have had a few incidents where due to the low sun I can’t see a sodding thing in front of me. Now, as a cyclist I am aware of accidents which have occurred where cyclists have been hit from behind and motorists have used the low sun as their explanation/excuse. So I slow down and strain as hard as I can to see if there is anything or anyone there. Most motorists who don’t appreciate cycling wouldn’t do this. If there was something I could do to make myself that little but more obvious in those situations I would do it. I wouldn’t lie in a ditch after a crash holding together my smashed pelvis telling the driver they really ought to pay more attention.
I’ve found some papers
I’ve found some papers suggesting that for bicyclists safety increases by running lights during daytime: Madsen, Ander
Madsen, Andersen & Lahrmann (2012), ‘Safety effects of permanent running lights for bicycles: A controlled experiment’
YES! It makes a noticable
YES! It makes a noticable difference. I ride mainly rural and semi-rural roads and the biggest change in driver behaviour was at junctions – you know the typical “I didn’t see you mate” senario. That’s the flashing front light, the rear light is less decisive. I’d say the the AVERAGE passing distance increased, but it also increased punishment passes
swPete wrote:
hello mr anecdote, despite increases in DRLs there has been no decrease in incidents, but what we do have is blame being pushed onto innocent parties, even the police accusing people on bikes of not having bright enough lights despite meeting the requirements written in the regulations.
Continue bowing to pressure and flawed thinking and the burden will always be pushed onto the vulnerable, maybe if the police were to blame rape victims for wearing certain clothing at certain time of day/night then this might hit home but the reality is forcing people to have DRLs, hi-vis and helmets is exactly the same thing as telling women not to wear alluring clothing or to not go out at night.
And when the incident rate remains the same where will we go as a vulnerable road user, buy a vehicle with a hard shell, roll cage, brighter lights that make it impossible for others to see just as with most modern motorvehicles, well done, you just fell into the trap!
Cyclists are not required to
Cyclists are not required to wear hi-vis clothing or use lights during the day,so they can’t be blamed if struck from behind – you are free to be pedantic and wear all black clothing but please don’t criticise others that choose to use a modicum of self preservation in making themselves as visible as possible to other road users.
“Trend Spotting: Should we
“Trend Spotting: Should we all be using lights in the daytime?”
No!
I do, but then it is a dynamo
I do, but then it is a dynamo set up so I’m actually always training with the increased drag….
On a similar vein though whilst attending a speed awareness course (I hold my hands up I was being naughty in a motor vehicle – no excuse) the instructors mentioned that the number of incidents involving motorcyclists being pulled out on has increased since cars began using daytime running lights as motorcyclists are no longer standing out amoungst the crowd.
willpom @GWRaudax wrote:
If everything is lit up, nothing stands out, so the more lights there are twinkling away in an environment, the less attention grabbing they are.
Consider an urban environment with lots of vehicle lights, flashing shop signs, street signs, etc. and contrast the conspicuousness of a single light amongst that lot to the same light on a dark country lane.
Once everything is illuminated or flashing, the human brain just tunes it all out and you’re no better off than being un-lit.
willpom @GWRaudax wrote:
i remeber years ago reading about a study in Sweden which showed daytime running lights had no measurable impact on safety for cars, and were a detriment to motorbikes. But here we are, daytime running lights everywhere.
Company that sells lights
Company that sells lights wants us to use lights…
That being said, I am generally using daytime lights, but largely because in these days of daytime running lights on everything else on the road, we are even less visible top those that don’t look
Fuck me , seriously,,,lights
Fuck me , seriously,,,lights In daylight . What about pedestrians,cars , fucking rowing boats . Roller bladers ,small woodland creatures and how about everyone leaves there lights on at home in daylight all the time. and every council leaves there street lights on .lets not forget the transgenders do they have to have lights .
Are some of you fucking blind . It’s daytime if you can’t fucking see go and get your eyes tested .
Don’t even entertain this . Let’s waste more fucking energy when we have every MSM outlet telling us the world is going to end and we need to conserve energy ( lying cunts) See the hypocrisy.its all about the Ker ching .
I live in Iceland ,it’s daylight 24 hours a day “ sell me your lights” “ it’s what the cool cyclists do “
This cutting diet is killing me . Ha ha
The problem with daytime
The problem with daytime lights, like hi-vis and helmets, is that drivers use their non-use to deflect from poor driving. “Yes, I may have pulled out on you without looking but…look…you’re not wearing a helmet….or hi-vis…..your lights are off…..it’s your fault!”.
If you want to run your lights all day, well, that’s up to you. Personally, I only run them in poor light conditions during my commute. Same goes for dressing up like a banana and wearing a thin plastic hat. Been there, done that, doesn’t make any difference. If they ain’t looking they ain’t looking. Want to be safe(r)? Concentrate 100% of the time, look everywhere, don’t ride in the gutter, keep away from car doors and heavy vehicles, and treat all other road users, including pedestrians and, regrettably, some people on bicycles, as idiots who will try to kill you. Works for me. Take care.
Yes…why not????
Yes…why not????
The lights today a light and you can recharge them.
They give the drive a “better chance” (WTF LOL) of seeing you….YES THEY SHOULD LOOK WHERE THEY ARE GOING ANYWAY, most do….but as we know, a lot do not!
If the driver then still does not see you and hits you. Then it is clear they were not paying attention…..I know if they hit you there were not paying attention lights or no lights…..but those F….ing lawyers ….well, they are worse than the driver that hit you!!!!! Then there is the judge…need I say more?
Just pop light weight lights on….is it worth get seriously injuried or worse for that one hit not being a scary very near miss?
Pedal those squares wrote:
Just remember to properly doff your cap while you’re at it… 😉
The main reason why I don’t
The main reason why I don’t run them in daytime is that I simply don’t want to deal with the hassle of constant recharges -all the lights promise limitless autonomy, until you actually use them a couple of months, that is- remembering putting the light back on the bike etc.
I already wear a fluo helmet, if they don’t see that then me thinks I’m screwed anyway.
Oh, leaving very early and riding home early in the afternoon when traffic is low also helps. So does making a detour over cycle paths where motorized traffic is prohibited and picking a route with cycle paths that are separate from the motor traffic. Result: tranquility, mostly. And a commute that’s double the shortest possible distance but the latter has me ride on a very busy road without bicycle path.
My anecdotal evidence of
My anecdotal evidence of wearing hi vis is that close passes become more frequent. I don’t see that lights in daylight will make much difference to that. I think visibility on the road by road positioning, and sympathetic riding, is far more effective.
I run a Garmin Varia2 radar
I run a Garmin Varia2 radar rear light which gives me warning of a cars approach and flashes as they get close.
close passes have reduced and I’m much more aware of what’s behind me.
wouldn’t enjoy riding without it now…… ok I would but I would miss it!
Markh8195 wrote:
Surely if you ride in a city or at rush hour this is going to be flashing all the time and therefore be meaningless.
Ditto to no.
Ditto to no.
Use of common sense should be encouraged.
Using bicycle lanes here, there is much less need, we are spaced from traffic. If on shared roads, particularly in heavy traffic or hilly narrow roads with lots of corners and shade then they’d reduce reactions required by motorists significantly..
Here’s to hoping we ain’t scumbags when battery discarding becomes. Us Australians helped destroy a beautiful island because we paid rubbish money to landfill a foreign land. Out of sight out of mind kind of thing.
Toxic landfills leach common own Earth.
Recycling has improved.. Batteries are still toxic.
Common sense helps timing of use.
Same with helmets.. But aye. Mate thought I was dead, German Shepard ripped skin off him as he carried me inside and dumped me on mums couch and legged it. Worn a helmet since. Lol. But wouldn’t bother if going to visit a near friend if not risking an expiation.
Oh, the irony…
Oh, the irony…
Regurgitated article from 4 years ago (!) uses the title “Trend Spotting”
I use day time front and rear
I use day time front and rear lights. Some comments suggest cars with day time running lights don’t stand out if and when every other car is using them too- I don’t find this to be the case, especially when it’s incredibly sunny out and you go through a shaded section of trees that almost block out all the sun- the contrast from light to dark can leave you as a cyclist being not seen. Having lights on in these shaded areas gives me confidence- and i notice in these conditions the cars with day time running lights. I have to say that Exposure and Cateye with their pulse settings really stand out in the day and the night- solid beam with bright pulse. I recommend them highly above other lights that don’t have this setting. Also recommend an air horn! Every pedestrian stops dead when they hear that- and car drivers can’t miss the 115Db. So if you survive being hit by a car and get into an argument after using a Cateye with 1200 lumen blast, 2 rear day time lights and an air horn- there’s no excuse.
lbalc wrote:
This in bold is the reason
lbalc wrote:
I started using a Moon Comet X at the rear and a Moon Orion W at the front running on the “day Flash” setting for exactly this reason. When going from bright daylight to heavily shaded, I found that my vision took a while to adjust and therefore a car driver would have the same issue. For me it’s a matter of common sense and cost me nothing (I own the lights already). It’s not going to prevent all accidents, but if it stops one then it’s worth it. It also helps to remove the sorry mate I didn’t see you as a default excuse.
Anecdotally I haven’t had any SMIDSY incidents of drivers pulling out of junctions since I’ve run the strobe at the front, obviously this might just be my good luck…
I do not do much night-time
I do not do much night-time riding this time of year, but I cannot travel without lights, sometimes things get late and dark. They are not very heavy these days. So, I put them on flash if it’s sunny, or on (low on the front) if it’s particularly grotty. I thought it was a good idea to keep the batteries being used and recharged every so often anyway, better than leaving them for many months sitting about.
Lots of valid points
Lots of valid points
A wide range of thoughts put forward in here and all seem relevant. As a cyclist/driver we should all be responsible for our actions when out on the open road but things do happen and accidents are unfortunately inevitable. As a cyclist we are more vulnerable than most and I personally don’t see the harm of making myself more visible whilst I’m cycling around. So if buying lights MAY save my life or prevent injury or worse making a laughing stock of myself as I lay on the floor like an upturned turtle, surely this is a small price to pay.
No – not when it’s bright and
No – not when it’s bright and sunny. All but the brightest lights will not be seen and if a driver hasn’t seen you in those conditions they wouldn’t with lights.
Bright clothing in daytime more important = creates a larger, more visable area than lights do. See above “Aviation research shows that contrast is the single most important factor in determining the likelihood of acquiring an object visually” “On the ground, dark coloured vehicles or clothing will result in reduced contrast against most usual backgrounds, and this is why high visibility clothing (for pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists) and/or bright lights are so important, in the daytime”
We have fashion victim roadies here who wear all black but lights at both ends thinking that’ll make them visable. Bright clothing but no lights is more visable.
See net article called “The theory of big” too. Bigger, brighter area.
In the day time I ride with a Fly6 with the light on the lowest setting. I only have the Fly6 for the video (excellent).
In low light, grey conditions and rain I now ride with lights and think it’s a good idea for all riders. A good light will cut through the gloom 😉
Marginal Gains, I run front
Marginal Gains, I run front and rear daylights + visible clothing if I have it, don’t ride at night
I use a LED rear flashing
I use a LED rear flashing light day or night. There is no argument not to in my opinion. Be bright be seen. All assists in an insurance claim
Please no keyboard warriors or trolls to comment thank you.
You appear to be personifying
You appear to be owning the term ‘snowflake’.
As a motorcyclist as well as
As a motorcyclist as well as a very keen cyclist I understand the need to be seen. Using lights night and day is a no brainer to me. We as cyclist need to understand this. I’m not saying we need dayglo clothing but a front and rear light helps keep us safer. Surely it makes sense. I don’t understand those who say why should I use lights in the daytime, it’s down to other road users to look out for us. My motto is “be seen be safe”
Just wondering what colour
Just wondering what colour your motorbike and leathers are?
Why wouldn’t they be Day Glo, and reflective at night.
Makes sense doesn’t it.
No brainer surely.
And I’m speaking as someone who uses lights and wears bright and reflective clothing, I’ve just decided that patronising people based on flimsy evidence is not the thing to do.
I didn’t think his comment
I didn’t think his comment was patronising – he just gave his opinion.
As for motorcyclists,they have the ability to travel at the same speed as other motorised traffic on the road; cyclists don’t,which makes them vulnerable to being struck from behind,so wearing clothing/using lights that help cyclists stand out and contrast visually will assist drivers noticing them.
Because you are putting the
Because you are putting the onus on the most vulnerable to accommodate the least vulnerable. Those who choose to use vehicles need to take more responsibility; you are just giving them an ‘out’ to avoid looking, observing and improving their standards.
At the moment that you leave
At the moment that you leave your house to ride your bike there is absolutely nothing you can to improve driving standards.
You know the standards are poor.
You can either choose to mitigate those poor driving standards or you can choose not too.
Wearing Hi Vis or running lights at all times is no different to taking primary at a pinch point.
If all drivers were perfect you wouldn’t need to do any of those things but you do them precisely because most drivers are a long way from perfect and you have to minimise the risk to yourself.
I guess I had better give up
I guess I had better give up on submitting my footage to the police portal.
How did you suggest the balance is redressed then? Because giving up and accepting does not seem a solution to me.
Keep submitting your footage
Keep submitting your footage by all means, every little helps as they say.
It doesn’t change the fact that at the moment you set of on your ride there is nothing (further) you can about the standard of driving.
All you can do is mitigate.
Mitigating poor driving through your behaviour doesn’t mean giving up on improving poor driving or campaigning for better infrastructure etc.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Markie G wrote:
Is it though? when your light runs out at 10pm (leaving you stranded) because you were using it for no reason at 3pm. this is not a benefit, so there is a downside to daytime lights, it’s not all upside.
I actually like running my
I actually like running my lights in the daylight. I’ve got some that are designed for daylight running and it seems to make sense but the cynical side of me feels this is victim blaming. I’ve been hit three times (the last just a few weeks ago!) by drivers who have all admitted to not even looking. It doesn’t matter how visible a rider is if those charged with upholding road safety, requiring testing and licensing, fail to uphold simple observational skills.
I’ve used a rear light at
I’ve used a rear light at sunset, sunrise & poor light for years, now ride with front light especially in country lanes.
The Bontrager Flare R is only
The Bontrager Flare R is only 65 lumens, and being an experienced rider and one who does run a rear light (and a strobing front light) when I ride in the daytime I know for a fact that a 65 lumen light is not noticably visible in direct sunlight, heck 65 lumens is the bare minimum for night use! Even my old tail light that cranked out 90 lumens wasn’t visible unless you were about 20 feet behind me then you might see something faint. I now have a NiteRider Omega 300 lumen tail light, that light is indeed visible from a long ways off. Some tail lights like the cob designed LED’s are worse during the day, I have NiteRider Sentra Aero 260 with supposedly 260 lumen, at night it’s fantastic (though the light is probably closer to 150 lumens), but during the day the cobs get washed right out.
The NiteRider Sentra Aero 260
The NiteRider Sentra Aero 260 has a dual cob,with one behind the other for side visibility – the rear facing cob is not that bright,so it would wash out in daylight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIA2r4EAHqg
froze wrote:
This, I will trust my high vis yellow carradice over a feeble rear light during the day.
Yes you should, we all have
Yes you should, we all have lights, why wouldn’t you use them if they can improve you being seen even slightly. We point fingers at drivers if they don’t see us but we all have a responsibility to make roads as safe as possible. Cars now come with daylight running lights so why shouldn’t we??
Cars don’t have daylight
Cars don’t have daylight running lights on the rear, don’t know why not.
Should we only use them on the front too?
Cars built before they became mandatory don’t have daytime running lights, should I not run them on my old bikes, both over 20 years old, but only the front on my new bike?
Fundementally depends on
Fundementally depends on visability. I used a rear light and hi vis during the daytime this Monday morning due to low visability due to fog out in the fens. During wet riding I also tend to use a light too. Only other times I use daytime lights are CTT events.
After my brother was put in
After my brother was put in hospital with a fractured spine after being hit by a car in the middle of the day (sunny, blue skies), while wearing a luminous yellow t-shirt I came to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter what you wear or have attached to your bike if the users of the motorised metal boxes around you aren’t looking. Next they will be suggesting that pedestrians get flashing lights too….
Yes, we should be using
Yes, we should be using lights in the daytime, especially at the rear.
Biggus-Dickkus wrote:
Why? on a bright sunny day I often see the cyclist long before the rear light becomes visible, particularly if they have a bright top, or bright coloured frame. MAYBE for those that wear black clothes and ride black bikes, but probably not even then.
They’re useful on bright days
They’re useful on bright days where there are strong shadows or when riding into a low sun. But they do have to be properly day bright.
No. You would be even more
No. You would be even more visible with a 5 foot pole sticking up from the rear and covered in lights, but that wouldn’t protect me from the death or GBH I’m worried about. They see you, but they don’t care because they think that they are ace drivers and that cyclists are like cars. When I was the stationary cyclist waiting to leave Sainsbury’s by turning right onto the main road, hit by the car cutting the corner and proceeding down the wrong side of the road- I had a very bright flashing multiple LED Aldi light mounted on my helmet, and a bright Cateye headlight mounted on the bars. Admittedly it was dark at about 5 pm in mid-DecemberHe hit me with his door mirror, resulting in a cricked neck that lasted a week. He claimed he didn’t see me- the reason is that people like that are only looking out for large 4 wheeled vehicles like themselves.
I run Cycliq cameras all the
I run Cycliq cameras all the time, but using the lights shortens the battery life so I only switch the light on when it’s dark.
In the winter I have flashing lights front and rear all the time (front: cheap Planet X, rear: See.Sense Ace) but neither is bright enough to be worth bothering with in the summer.
I like the idea of a light with a built in ambient sensor – daylight lights need to be REALLY bright but if you leave them like that they’re blinding at night and run the battery down very quickly.
Still No!
Still No!
I’ll put my lights on during
I’ll put my lights on during the daytime if the weather is bad (rainy, very overcast, fog, etc). Other than that, no.
If someone honestly can’t see you during the hours of daylight without your bike having flashing lights then in my opinion they shouldn’t be driving.
And if they are only looking for lights, not for – you know – things, then again they should probably go and retake their driving test.
So do I- my trusty Aldi light
So do I- my trusty Aldi light set is always ready- but it’s not really ordinary daylight then. The problem would occur if a requirement for daylight lights turned up, with all the potential for the hyper-junk press to excuse their moron psycho readers for any offence against cyclists.
in the day time possibly
in the day time possibly
in bright conditions – definitely not
When you can see a cylist from a distance of about half a mile, but their light only becomes obvious at half that it seems pretty pointless. Just a waste of energy and a stick to beat cyclists who arent using lights with.
I’m generally against using lights in the daytime, as I am often trying to conserve my light burn time for when it matters.
I agree, though I do use a
I agree, though I do use a light in the daytime in bright conditions if Im riding into a low setting sun, and especially if the road is wet, as Im trying to avoid just being a silhouette lost in the glare and something red and flashing might just be enough of a cue to a motorist theres a cyclist in front of them, it might not but other than carrying a lucky rabbits foot in those situations it feels like youve done all you can.
Otherwise no I dont see the point of running them in the daylight, its only when there are other visibility concerns that I use them.
As cyclists we are competing
As cyclists we are competing against the background and other road users to be seen.
New models of cars have been using DRLs since 2011.
We should not have to but are almost forced to use lights in daytime in our own interests.
It is only one small step from no lights to victim blaming
Used a rear light for years,
Used a rear light for years, long before Trek said we should. Just makes sense to give myself a better chance of being seen. Even on a bright day a flashing rear light catches the attention of a driver who might otherwise be very sorry, but didn’t see you.
If you can’t wear visible
If you can’t wear visible clothing then you have to rely on lights.
So the answer to the question is that if your clothing isn’t visible (I mean black tops, jackets etc.) as we were always taught in the highway code and elsewhere for cycling then its not as necessary.
I have noticed that even with lights those dark clothed cyclists are hard to spot.
randonneur wrote:
If your clothing isn’t visible I can promise you that you won’t need lights. You’ll attract your own (blue flashing – and aside from the cold the lights will be too).