E-cargo bike and pedicab company Pedal Me confirmed rumours it has banned staff riders from wearing helmets, citing safety reasons for the rule.
The news was first reported by Carlton Reid for Forbes after the firm posted a series of tweets on Friday explaining the decision.
The London-based cycling logistics provider said it believed riders and other road users take more risks when a helmet is worn, and that the “vast majority” of injuries sustained by staff occurred off the bike.
Instead, Pedal Me says reporting near miss incidents, properly training riders, maintaining its fleet of cargo bikes, as well as tracking poor rider behaviour is more effective.
In response to a question posed by the owner of a bike shop, Pedal Me clarified the company’s stance in a detailed Twitter thread.
“People taking risks that are sufficient that they feel they need to wear helmets are not welcome to work for us – because our vehicles are heavy and could cause harm, and because we carry small children on our bikes. Instead – we systematically work to reduce risk,” it began.
“We do this by: 1) Thorough risk assessment. 2) Extremely high level of training, on an ongoing basis. 3) Near miss reporting – we track near misses, and minor injuries, and tackle the causative factors.
“We know that increasing helmet wearing rates makes cycling more dangerous per mile – although there are confounding factors here, this indicates that overall they do not provide a strong protective effect in the round – otherwise the opposite effect.
“Extensive reading of the literature suggests that this is because while helmets definitely help in the event of a crash, that risk compensation results in more collisions. So riders wearing helmets take greater risks, and those driving around them take greater risks too.”
Pedal Me suggested a “major cause” of head injuries are crashes where the rider is thrown over the handlebars, something it says is “not possible” when using one of its three-metre long cargo bike.
The company also reported seeing worse behaviour from competitor firms that use helmets, saying the protective equipment seemed to make riders “much more likely to jump red lights and take risks in general”.
Overall the vast majority of injuries to our riders occur off the bike, which we know because of our near miss and incident reporting – and that’s our focus for tackling danger.
As @Chris_Boardman says: “Helmets not even in top 10 of things that keep cycling safe”
— Pedal Me (@pedalmeapp) February 4, 2022
Pedal Me currently employs 70 staff riders, who together cover around 50,000 miles per month. The firm says it has not had any third-party or passenger injuries since it founded, although there have been minor collisions.
Bungee cords were the biggest cause of injuries, but have since been phased out. The most common source of injury comes “mainly off the bike”, when loading and unloading the bikes, or when at a customer’s premises.
Pedal Me also outlined its internal safety strategy, including training concepts “hammered home” and repeated passenger qualification every 18 months. Additionally, “near misses get reported and investigated, allowing us to systematically tackle real safety issues based on data rather than fear”.
This reporting system is credited for “major changes” to training, bungees being phased out, upgraded brakes, and changes to the maintenance process, which is undertaken by in-house mechanics. All Pedal Me bikes and riders are also tracked through nameplates and GPS.
And finally, here are our incident logs.
We’re particularly keen to help @metpoliceuk crack down on harrassment and assault on the street as this is something that is not common, but does happen and we don’t think it’s acceptable.
They have not appeared particularly interested. pic.twitter.com/EfEMkzhDDh
— Pedal Me (@pedalmeapp) February 4, 2022
Since 2017, one rider reported suffering a concussion in a collision, which may have been mitigated by wearing a helmet, but Pedal Me stressed: “Potentially [a helmet may have helped]. But likely would have also increased risk taking and therefore increased the number of incidents overall.”
Co-founder Ben Knowles told Forbes: “We once had an incident where a member of staff was assaulted with a machete, but that doesn’t mean we would equip all riders with stab vests.”
The thread prompted much discussion, including questions of the legality of denying a rider work because they choose to wear a helmet.
Pedal Me responded to this concern, saying: “We’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this, and it’s our legal responsibility to look after the safety of our staff, and the safety of those who might be impacted by our operations. We’re legally obliged to put in rules that will keep our staff and third parties safe.”






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92 thoughts on “Pedal Me bans cargo bike riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons”
That’s quite reasonable. I
That’s quite reasonable. I don’t wear a helmet riding my town bike.
I do when mountain biking as the likelihood of falling off is far greater and the collision more likely to be one where a helmet would offer some benefit. I also wear one when on the road bike, but mainly for the very small risk of a pothole sending me over the bars. You’re not likely to go over the bars on a cargo bike!
This is exactly how it should
This is exactly how it should be, an individual can make their own call based on what they are doing. If I’m nipping to the shops I don’t take a helmet as its 3 minutes adn I CBA carrying the thing. If I’m out with the club or racing I’ll wear it because there is a chance of a crash. If I’m commuting I’ll wear, not because I think it will make any difference, but because my wife would kill me if I didn’t.
All personal choices and I think these riders should be given that same personal choice.
The choice of what PPE must
The choice of what PPE must be worn is not down to the individual in work situations where you must comply with, legislation and company policy/risk assesments etc.
OnTheRopes wrote:
Many years ago, the HSE looked at cycle helmets and excluded them from the designation PPE.
I work with people in various
I work with people in various Highways teams and they are required to wear full PPE on site visits – even when it’s on the pavement in the middle of a town!
On helmets – it should be personal choice – even when working for Pedal Me! Not convinced by their logic tbh.
but they included hi-vis, so
but they included hi-vis, so I hope all employees that cycle for work comply.
bobbypuk wrote:
I think the difficulty here is the carriage of passengers on the cargo bikes. If riders are wearing helmets, then why not passengers? Do they need to bring their own or are a selection of sizes kept on the bike for their use? If they don’t have a helmet, then are PedalMe being negligent in not providing one, even though it’s not a legal requirement? If a rider has a helmet and a passenger not, will the rider take more risks?
It’s a very interesting stance to take. But I can see the reasons for it.
“And in today’s weather:
“And in today’s weather: there’ll be an outbreak of reasoned debate and common sense, spreading out from London…”
Honestly did they really need
Honestly did they really need to make a rule here? It doesnt appear that they have done any formal risk assessment which IMO leaves them open to a claim from one of their employee’s if they now bump their head in the course of their duties.
Taking more risks with a helmet on? Thats a subjective measure if ever there was one. When Im at top speed in the big ring going down a bit hill I dont think thank god for my helmet I usually think “better take it easy otherwise its a trip to skin graft city”.
Whilst cycling in London I have never thought I’ll take a chance against this car because I have a helmet on.
Regardless of what you think of helmets – this was a case of if it aint broke don’t fix it.
“if it aint broke”
“if it aint broke”
Very much the question here…
I’d have thought the main
I’d have thought the main risk was toppling over at low speed with a heavy load where you might hit the kerb. Seems the sort of thing helmets are useful for.
“risk compensation results in more collisions”
“upgraded brakes”
No risk compensation from upgraded brakes then. Seems rather selective to me.
hirsute wrote:
Very much a ‘cherry picking’ approach.
Confusing a psychologist hypothesis that sports people might risk compensate (race down the Ventoux, anybody?) with how recreational or occupational cyclists may behave seems highly questionable given the range of motivation that is likely.
Free publicity, yes.
A well thought through position, hmm…
lonpfrb wrote:
I’d have thought the main risk was toppling over at low speed with a heavy load where you might hit the kerb. Seems the sort of thing helmets are useful for.
“risk compensation results in more collisions”
“upgraded brakes”
No risk compensation from upgraded brakes then. Seems rather selective to me.
— lonpfrb Very much a ‘cherry picking’ approach.
Confusing a psychologist hypothesis that sports people might risk compensate (race down the Ventoux, anybody?) with how recreational or occupational cyclists may behave seems highly questionable given the range of motivation that is likely.
Free publicity, yes.
A well thought through position, hmm…— hirsuteRisk compensation isn’t limited to any specific activity, it affects all human activities, including better brakes on bicycles and cars.
Just found this, a study
Just found this, a study showing that drivers of bigger vehicles take more risks https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10603-022-09511-w?fbclid=IwAR3wV2GW0XYlzS_nIVkw3WnxJ3PTeDw9thOfqjF3ReqmF6YT6UvBxWBuKlc
This is a really strange
This is a really strange decision by PedalMe. One which could end them in serious financial difficulty.
All it would take is for an employee to be involved in an accident which results in a brain injury which could have been prevented or reduced by wearing a helmet. If that employee/family/spouse then raises a case to say that the employee would normally have worn a helmet but the terms of their employment prevented them wearing the helmet….. I’m pretty sure there would be a significant payout due from the court and I’m not sure their Employers Liability insurance would cover them.
They’re free to not work
They’re free to not work there, then. It would be difficult to prove they would have worn a helmet, yet continued to work in a place where this was a known issue.
You would also have to prove the helmet would have prevented or sufficiently mitigated the injury. Difficult to do when testing standards just don’t get that far
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Helmets are such part of the cultural bias against people on bikes what you say in theory might not actually happen in practice.
In addition legislatively employers are required to provide appropriate safety equipment.
The fact that PMA might have to defend that in court may in itself not sustain a risk benefit analysis.
I thought the HSE stated bike
I thought the HSE stated bike helmets aren’t PPE?
Yep they’re not ppe
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg174.pdf
nosferatu1001 wrote:
I interpret that as the “PPE at work” document doesn’t cover them due to the road being a public space and not a work environment. Bike helmets are surely some kind of PPE whether or not they are as effective as top surgeons claim.
hawkinspeter wrote:
It is a work environment. Hsaw covers you when you are at work, it doesn’t exclude public spaces.
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Thanks for that, really interesting! – the implication I think is that lids specifically shouldn’t/can’t be cited in an RA as mitigating a risk.
I wonder what the implication is here for specifically prohibiting them. Should a cautious employee wish to wear one, and persisted in doing so, would they be placed under disciplinary? How would that play out in tribunal?
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Despite that, many H&S over zealous reps demand them for riding on company business. I resigned from being the local H&S rep when Bristol council mandated them on the insistence of the cheif H&S officer, and they ignored the evidence presented by myself and other cyclists.
eburtthebike wrote:
sounds like a cause for malicious compliance, either start using public transport (wasting time) or taxis (wasting money) for those work same journeys. Perhaps “forget” to bring a helmet when cyclng to work in the morning.
An employer is entitled to
An employer is entitled to mandate helmet use but may well run into legal difficulties if they ban the use of bike helmets.
A long time ago the HSE
A long time ago the HSE explicitly ruled that cycle helmets don’t fall under PPE at work legislation.
AFAIK it was for a very similar issue – postal workers arguing about whether they should have helmets for doing delivery rounds on bicycles.
So I suspect the case law is already on pedalme’s side…
Although there’s a difference
Although there’s a difference between them not being obliged to provide helmets, and them banning workers from exercising their choice to wear them.
mdavidford wrote:
That’s what worried me, surely something that should be left up to the individual rider, just as it should be for all other riders on the road. I am sure those who disagree with helmets would be cross if helmets were mandated by a company (are there any companies that do so?), a mandatory ban on helmets would seem to be the other side of the same coin.
mdavidford wrote:
It just occurred to me that by making it a policy decision they are preemptively avoiding the accusation that they are leaving their staff to provide their own PPE – with a firm nod to Nosferatu’s link that lids are not considered PPE by HSE. I think that nuance would be lost on many lidiacs
qwerty360 wrote:
In error, reply intended for different poster
There’s a very big difference
There’s a very big difference between not requiring bike helmets to be used as PPE and an employer banning employees from wearing helmets; I suspect you are not in the legal profession.
Hats off* to them for a
Hats off* to them for a detailed and thorough consideration, regardless of whether you agree with them or not. They probably need the rule to show their insurance company they are in control. And fair play, it’s free publicity
I usually wear a helmet whilst on my bike despite my own experience suggesting that motorists give me more space when I don’t wear one. My reasons for wearing them are:
-I have small kids and I would like them to wear helmets whilst their skulls are still developing so I need to walk the talk.
-I have a hi viz cover over my helmet that looks ridiculous, like a fluorescent knob which amuses me no end*
-When the inevitable happens and some prick flattens me, I don’t want the insurance company to have a ridiculous excuse to attempt to reduce the pay out.
*Puns intended
Question: If your kids were
Question: If your kids were able to ride only or nearly only on segregated infrastructure, or on occaional town roads with mostly super courteous drivers – so I am clearly referencing Denmark/Netherlands here – would you still insist they wear a helmet?
I have 3 boys who all started cycling and continue to with no helmets and its just normal for many where I live where the environment is safe.
We should fully focus on changing the roadways environment, not putting plastic hats on the most vulnerable.
Fair question. Yes I would.
Fair question. Yes I would. At the moment they are very much at the stage of slow speed falls off the bike with no one else involved and I suspect they will soon graduate to sudden braking and flying over the handle bars.
When they are older, probably not so much. Also, when they are older I doubt they would listen to me anyway given they have 50% of my genes.
See also my reply to Grog.
See also my reply to Grog.
Why would you conflate those
Why would you conflate those issues? if wearing helmets are a good idea for low impact accidents, I would most certainly use them with segregated bike infrastructure.
grOg wrote:
Do you fall off your bike a lot? People using segregated infrastructure tend not to, and so don’t need helmets.
Efficacy of helmets is disproved by this chart which shows no correlation between increased helmet use, and lower occurance of head injuries
I don’t think it disproves it
I don’t think it disproves it, any more than a lot of evidence put forward on the pro-helmet side proves it. What it shows is that other factors have an effect that outweighs that of helmets, if there is any.
I hope you put plastic hats
I hope you put plastic hats on your kids in that case when they use stairs, walk on slippery conditions, or are rough housing in a playground… I seriously do.
Also… machete… wtf.
Also… machete… wtf.
They’re entirely right, as
They’re entirely right, as Mark Treasure explains here:
https://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2018/03/28/from-the-specific-to-the-general/
I lways felt that with the
I always felt that with the infrastructure in towns with kerbs, bollards, posts, poles, signs, pedestrians (!!) that a helmet would be useful and speed would be within the design limits.
I have the same sort of thoughts as secret squirrel when going down hill at speed.
Wow. this is brave.
Wow. this is brave.
Ridiculous. We all know that
Ridiculous. We all know that a helmet isn’t some magical device but I would far rather have it on than not. When knocked off by a car suddenly veering into my lane (no helmet that day) I was rather fortunate that it was my dislocated shoulder that took the brunt while my head only had a small knock on the ground. If my head had taken most of the impact…
Concentrate on training your staff to be sensible on the bike while at work rather than taking away something that could save their life.
A nice detailed justification
A nice detailed justification, although there is a bit too much reliance on ‘may have increased risk-taking’ for my liking. However, I fundamentally agree. I’ve found that the safest headwear for cycling is a brightly coloured (I have one with reflective stripes!) bobble-hat. It makes you very obvious but also very clearly ‘not a cyclist’.
I’ve never been close passed (I cycle in city-centre Cardiff!) in a bobble hat and it probably provides about the same level of protection against the HGV that will probably one day kill me as a helmet, i.e. none whatsoever.
Brave move from Pedal Me, I
Brave move from Pedal Me, I wish them luck
Their intention is good, but
Their intention is good, but they are wrong. All of the above + wear a helmet because a broken bone in the head usually means brain damage whereas a broken bone anywhere else means a month of Netflix. It’s just not worth the risk. However, helmets must not be made compulsory by the Government, because dickheads like Loophole will get drivers off killing cyclists if the rider wasnt wearing a compulsory helmet.
I appreciate the honesty of
I appreciate the honesty of your comment but I feel you might have just not read the article fully.
If it is purely a provable game of numbers I would take my chances with no helmet if it reduced my overall risk of a serious injury KSI etc.
Australia has mandated helmet
Australia has mandated helmet use but if a motorist hit a cyclist and is found responsible, the matter of whether the cyclist was wearing a helmet or not is immaterial.
A thoroughly logical, fact
A thoroughly logical, fact-based analysis by Pedal Me, so extremely rare these days that I had to come here to make that comment.
Except…….””Extensive reading of the literature suggests that this is because while helmets definitely help in the event of a crash….” Not sure where they got that from; does anyone know? There is no definite about it, given the increase in risk of the most damaging injury, rotational.
Incidentally, not wishing to stoke the fires of the helmet inferno, but I came across a fb advert by Sustrans, which has teamed up with a helmet manufacturer to run a competition. I wrote to them suggesting that this was a bad idea as helmets didn’t work and promoting them depressed cycling levels, and they responded with a link to their helmet policy, which as far as I can see is based on a newspaper report of some very dodgy helmet “research”. I put research into inverted commas, because it consisted of “….computer reconstructions of all the fatal collisions to determine whether headgear would have changed the outcomes.” That strikes me as up there with Thompson, Rivara and Thompson for reliability. https://www.sustrans.org.uk/our-blog/policy-positions/all/all/our-position-on-the-use-of-cycle-helmets/
eburtthebike wrote:
After which you thereupon stoke up the fires of the helmet inferno.
MattieKempy wrote:
Litotes; not necessarily my least favourite figure of speech.
eburtthebike wrote:
Excellent!
(I had to look up what that meant)
eburtthebike wrote:
Chapeau.
I’d be very surprised if
I’d be very surprised if Pedal Me have gone down this route without a clear, documented, risk assessment and clarity on their liability insurance position. As one of their investors, I certainly hope they have taken those steps (and if they have, then I am very happy to support their stance).
All it will take is one
All it will take is one employee to fall and hit their head for a lawsuit to occur; I would put money on the employee winning a liability case.
grOg wrote:
well it seems that one eployee has fallen and hit their head, according to the records.
Concussion and stitches to the chin, neither of which are protected against by the helmet. Of course if they had been wearing a hemet in this fall, it would be another “bike helmet saved my life” story.
Concussion and stitches to
Concussion and stitches to the chin, neither of which are protected against by the helmet
What is this nonsense?! ‘Concussion’ doesn’t exist- it’s just an obsolete term in ancient films when the hero grits his teeth, gets on with the job and shrugs off ‘a touch of concussion’. It’s really varying degrees of traumatic brain injury and they’re all going to show up as white (usually) blobs on brain MRI. They don’t do you any good and the more of them you have, and the bigger they are, the worse it is. It is my hope and expectation that any TBI I receive from bashing my head on the road will be reduced by my invariably worn helmet. That’s very difficult to prove, so I’m happy for others to disagree where their own brains are concerned. ‘Concussion’ is exactly what helmets are intended to reduce in severity
wtjs wrote:
Not an expert, but I thought that brain injuries (‘concussions’) are caused primarily by the brain sloshing against the inside of the skull and bike helmets don’t currently help with that significantly. Skull fractures are more likely to be prevented by cycle helmets.
Not an expert
Not an expert
Exactly! We have to resort to common sense.
wtjs wrote:
I was hoping for someone more knowledgeable to give some insight as I’d rather be corrected than continue to believe something that’s false. Must say that I’m not a fan of common sense as it leads to all kinds of wrong conclusions (e.g. closing roads creates more traffic)
Common sense tells you to do
Common sense tells you to do a proper methodical study otherwise you are simply stating something that matches your existing position and claiming it equates to common sense.
wtjs wrote:
https://www.bicycling.com/training/a20009168/injury-prevention-what-helmets-are-meant-for/
https://helmets.org/concussionhelmet.htm
https://www.rei.com/blog/cycle/the-complicated-story-behind-bike-helmet-safety
https://www.cpsc.gov/safety-education/safety-guides/sports-fitness-and-recreation-bicycles/which-helmet-which-activity
“Does this mean that helmets prevent concussions?
No. No helmet design has been proven to prevent concussions. The materials that are used in most of today’s helmets are engineered to absorb the high impact energies that can produce skull fractures and severe brain injuries. However, these materials have not been proven to counteract the energies believed to cause concussions. Beware of claims that a particular helmet can reduce or prevent concussions.”
still, you have “hope and expectation” on your side, so I’m sure any court case by the one rider who suffered concussion would be a straightforward finding for the plaintiff..
I’d have thought this is a
I’d have thought this is a situation where the employer could leave this to choice of their employees . This firm simply has a better outcome because of a praiseworthy proactive attitude to employees safety which I believe would show good results whether wearing helmets or not . What will the new Highway Code “changes” bring , and will it even mean that his rival couriers will end up with similar outcomes ?
One study on risk
One study on risk compensation that is sometimes cited is this one: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/289535569_Wearing_a_Bicycle_Helmet_Can_Increase_Risk_Taking_and_Sensation_Seeking_in_Adults
But not everyone agrees with its conclusions: https://helmets.org/up1601.htm#:~:text=The%20researchers%20found%20that%20those,be%20made%20safer%20by%20that and https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369847818305941.
In my part of the world, most cycling fatalities in urban areas are due to accidents involving heavy vehicles (lorries, buses, coaches); the classic case is where the driver doesn’t see the cyclist close to the vehicle. In rural areas, most accidents involving other vehicles happen when the cyclist is hit from behind. And of course there are also cases where the cyclist hits a stationary object, a pedestrian, or simply falls off the bike. I’m not an expert, but I think helmets probably only help in the latter category of accidents.
My opinion is that individual employees should be able to choose whether to wear a helmet or not.
The criticism of the risk
The criticism of the risk compensation paper is on the notorious Bicycle Helmet Research Institute, well known for it’s helmet promotion and trashing of anything which casts doubt on their efficacy. From the article “Imagine the consequences for seatbelt use if this conclusion were valid!” It is valid, and it has been shown that seat belts increase risk taking by drivers. Such a shame that the Isles Report, done for parliament before the vote on seat belts, showing just that, was never published.
They also say that Dr Ian Walker’s research into passing distances has been discredited; it hasn’t. Your second study involves Jake Olivier, the most fervent helmet promoter in the southern hemisphere, notorious for using rather less than robust research methods.
eburtthebike wrote:
As I recall, wasn’t Dr Ian Walker’s close-passing research performed by himself? That”s not to discredit it, but means that it should be replicated in a larger study to more fully investigate it.
Getting more info would be
Getting more info would be great – although I suspect that the impact of nailing this down either way on anything (including attitudes) would be negligable.
“Natural experiments” might be best – although you’d need much more of them to tease out things like environment, other vehicles, initial positioning of car, behaviour of the cyclist. Now where would we find such an archive of close passes recorded that we could study…?
On the general point – was the concern “it was only him doing it so not many test runs” or “he performed it so he could influence it e.g. by riding differently”? I guess it depends on the protocol and if you trust Dr. Ian to follow it and can check that in the write-up – but then that’s true of the majority of research.
chrisonatrike wrote:
Using NMOTD wouldn’t be great as it’s self-selecting in terms of who happens to have a camera, is close-passed and wants to upload it to Road.cc.
Going from memory, I think Dr Walker’s close-passing was a pretty small study – something like <50 events (apologies for not bothering to go look it up) so it suffers from both small size and it could possibly have been influenced by Dr Walker (although it seems unlikely, there’s a large history of psychic research where the experimenter seems to affect results even though the experiments are designed to prevent that).
Sorry – I meant to put a
Sorry – I meant to put a “wink” emoji next to the NMOTD reference. But unfortunately isn’t the issue exactly that the current crop of cyclists who are regularly out on the roads are rather a rather limited sample of everyone? * Which is partly because (one of several reasons) most people (not cycling) fear exactly this kind of behaviour from motorists.
Surely what the history of psychic research, many “alternative therapy” investigations tells us is that these things are real and powerful. They must be because they still influence the results despite these so-called “protocols” which are clearly just the current scientific / medical / academic establishment seeking to protect its own orthodoxy.
* You could even say self-selecting. It might be partly through others labelling us but we do tend to self-identify as “cyclists”.
chrisonatrike wrote:
I read this interesting article recently about psychic research being the control group for scientists: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/28/the-control-group-is-out-of-control/
The results? Schlitz’s trials found strong evidence of psychic powers, Wiseman’s trials found no evidence whatsoever.
Take a second to reflect on how this makes no sense. Two experimenters in the same laboratory, using the same apparatus, having no contact with the subjects except to introduce themselves and flip a few switches – and whether one or the other was there that day completely altered the result. For a good time, watch the gymnastics they have to do to in the paper to make this sound sufficiently sensical to even get published. This is the only journal article I’ve ever read where, in the part of the Discussion section where you’re supposed to propose possible reasons for your findings, both authors suggest maybe their co-author hacked into the computer and altered the results.
hawkinspeter wrote:
Maybe we could get NMOTD riders to tell us if they were wearing helmets? My impression is that many are, certainly almost, if not all, of the group rides.
It was performed by himself,
It was performed by himself, the data was then analysed by him and published by him to the benefit of his career.
That’s not to say he in any way deliberately misled people but high quality studies are blinded for a reason.
I also believe that when he carried out his equally famous wig study he found no difference in passing distances for the helmeted cyclist.
They’re interesting studies but they are low quality and have not, AFAIK, had their findings reproduced anywhere.
Rich_cb wrote:
Agreed. I think with appropriate tech, it should be easy to conduct a much bigger investigation into passing distances. What would be ideal would be a camera with a built in distance sensor – that could make close-pass enforcement easier for the police and hopefully determine what factors are in play.
I think Walker’s setup could
I think Walker’s setup could easily be adapted for use by law enforcement alongside cameras but without verified calibration etc I’m not sure if civilian owned sensors would be court admissible.
I imagine certain ‘top lawyers and road safety experts’ would have a field day…
All we need if for police forces to carry out semi-regular plain clothes close pass initiatives and the message would soon get out.
That being said I think cycling Mikey, Jeremy Vine etc are probably doing as good a job in that regard, I genuinely think the average pass I get is getting better. I don’t think drivers are getting better though, they’re just more scared of getting caught now!
Rich_cb wrote:
I don’t see the need for much calibration as when combined with the footage it’ll be obvious if it’s only 1m rather than 1.5m. As long as the error is less than 10cm, then it should be fit for purpose.
If drivers are more wary of getting caught, then that counts as “better” in my book. Realistically, lots of drivers aren’t interested in driving and see it as just a chore, so the police just need to give them a prod when their driving becomes potentially dangerous.
Rich_cb wrote:
I like the idea of blinding here – presumably you’d also have to blindfold the cyclists so they didn’t know if they were wearing a wig or a tutu and alter their behaviour too?
Thanks for the additional
Thanks for the additional insights. I was just trying to give some links as a starting point for debate, without expressing an opinion for or against the different conclusions.
On the wider debate, one official French study of fatal accidents to cyclists in 2011 concluded: “Of the 142 bicycle riders who died, 65 were considered to be the triggers of the accident and somewhat (plutôt) or even totally responsible.” (https://www.onisr.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/etudes-et-recherches/modes-de-deplacement/velos-et-engins-de-deplacement-personnel/analyse-de-l-accidentalite-des-cyclistes-base-voiesur-cycliste). The percentage of cyclists at fault seems to be suprisingly high, while of course not taking away the need for better protection for cyclists on our streets and roads. So PedalMe seems to be taking the right approach of “hammering home” safety concepts and training, and investigating near misses rather than thinking that helmets are a magic solution to the risks of cycling.
I wish my French was better
I wish my French was better so that I could understand the study. Ah well, should have paid more attention at ecole.
Just come across this rather interesting study, which shows that the bigger the car, the more risks the driver takes. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10603-022-09511-w?fbclid=IwAR3wV2GW0XYlzS_nIVkw3WnxJ3PTeDw9thOfqjF3ReqmF6YT6UvBxWBuKlc
I like the helmet laws in
I like the helmet laws in Australia; not that I think helmets are useful in a vehicular collision but that it helps motorists identify the bogan element that ride bikes, as they never wear helmets or obey any other traffic laws; thus motorists can differentiate and not lump all cyclists together.
grOg wrote:
Are you being racist again?
As I understand it, the aboriginal population is unfairly penalised with helmet laws which appears to be something that you support.
I suppose they also go around
I suppose they also go around stabbing people and are mainly foreign.
Is there an equivalent for drivers so that peds and cyclists can know which one to avoid in case of risk of death or serious injury?
grOg wrote:
What is a bogan?
eburtthebike wrote:
Based on posts, possibly a gr0g: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bogan
eburtthebike wrote:
Short version – the Australian equivalent of chav.
grOg wrote:
Why would a motorist need to identify a bogan? All that is required by the motorist is to notice the cyclist and not flatten them.
I would suggest that current rates of motorist induced injuries and deaths indicate that motorists have no spare brain capacity whilst driving for making value judgements about other humans.
grOg wrote:
they can lump all non-lid wearers together….
The stab proof vest analogy
The stab proof vest analogy doesn’t fit: are they really saying they’d ban riders from bringing their own vest in, as if it’d encourage them to take more risks around machetes?
Seems like they should educate riders on the limited benefits of a helmet and let riders make an informed decision.
The next rider to get a head injury will likely sue and rightly win.
https://microco.sm/out/djg6i
https://microco.sm/out/djg6i
Prosper0 wrote:
Great vid, thansk for posting!
Captain Badger wrote:
It is good. Little tip for the op; use the title of the vid so people know what it is and whether they want to look at it. I don’t view vids that have no title having been caught a few times by things utterly irrelevant.
It’s called “Why I Don’t Wear a Bicycle Helmet”
You’ve got to give Pedal Me
You’ve got to give Pedal Me some credit here. People, not just us on this forum will be talking about this for weeks to come, who’s wrong, who’s right.
There’s no such thing as bad publicity anymore and they’ll be generating digital column inches by the boatload.
Not a bad strategy.
FWIW, I think they should leave helmet wearing down to personal choice. I’d rather be able to pick my riders from a big a pool as possible than dictate who I’m going to employ before they’ve even walked through the door.
So much wrong with this
So much wrong with this “logic” that it’s not even worth trying to explain it.
I’m pro-helmet, pro-seat belts, pro-good tires on my car, pro-driving/riding in a safe manner, pro-earmuffs when doing loud things, pro-safety glasses …
Now if a worker is in an accident (and not due to their risk taking), surely they could get a lawyer to prosecute the company for not allowing them to use safety equipment?