A recumbent rider in South Derbyshire has been singled out for abuse by a councillor and other attendees at a Safer Neighbourhood meeting – because he 'might kill someone'.
The mystery cyclist, who rides around the Repton area, often followed and videoed by his wife in a van for his own protection, was the subject of animated discussion.
Michael Stanton, who represents Repton on South Derbyshire District Council, said that the cyclist got in his path as he attempted to leave the driveway of his home in his pickup truck.
According to the Burton News, he said to uproarious laughter: “I was about to pull out when I noticed this wire going past the bonnet with a pennant on it, then I saw this fellow go past lying on his back in a cylindrical type object.
“If it had been one second later I would have killed him. If he gets killed it probably serves him right, but the problem is, he may end up killing or injuring someone else.”
After the meeting he added that the cyclist would be "better off going to Dignitas" — the Swiss clinic which carries out assisted suicide.
One man who attended the council meeting but did not want to be named, said: “We see a lot of cyclists on the road and it’s not a problem because we keep out of their way and they keep out of ours, but we just can’t see this guy. He’s out of control.”
According to the paper, this man "said the same cyclist had recently collided with the back of his tractor and was now claiming £9,000 compensation as he had to import replacement parts from Australia," although it's not clear from his description who was at fault.
Police Sergeant Steve Todd, safer neighbourhood officer for the area, told the meeting: “If we have evidence of offences we could act, but just cycling down the road on that vehicle is perfectly legal.”
64 thoughts on “Recumbent rider deserves death and would be ‘better off going to Dignitas’, says councillor”
Recumbents are the cycles of
Recumbents are the cycles of Satan’s minions, ridden by inhuman fiends – they’ve already sold their souls anyway. 👿
Seriously though, the comments are stupid yes, but it sounds like this guy is asking for trouble.
His wife follows him in a van and videos him ? So he’s out looking for an argument by the sounds of it.
Sadly quite a few cyclists have a self-righteous streak, which cameras have only encouraged.
Many people posting video and stories about their frequent conflicts with cars seem to have a lot more trouble than the average cyclist. They insist on total enforcement of every right on the road, rather than acting sensibly and compromising in the way 95% of road users do.
It’s by no means exclusive – like that guy in the video from Portland (I think it was linked here once). Driving behind cyclists at 15mph constantly blowing his horn even though he can overtake on a clear road. But that would mean putting one wheel on a double line so he wants them to pull over and stop.
Or there was a single guy who blocked a shared-use cycle path through the common near my home for years, I believe because of some bylaw he claimed would make it a right of way and allow the council to turn it into a road.
There are pricks everywhere and we should recognise them in all forms – cyclists, drivers, walkers. They don’t deserve to die but if they get people’s backs up we shouldn’t defend them through some tribal loyalty.
abudhabiChris wrote:
Or there
I think I know who you mean. Tooting Common?
@ JohnS Yes, Tooting
@ JohnS Yes, Tooting Common.
Even after it was put in the guy would walk along it with his dogs on long leads and refuse to do anything to allow cyclists to pass.
Because apparently that was his right as well.
abudhabiChris wrote:@ JohnS
His final trick was whipping out a flexible steel tape measure and prodding it towards your spokes, allegedly in an attempt to demonstrate there wasn’t room for both peds and bikes on the path.
He also once grabbed the bars of a small female cycling friend of mine and harangued her. This was not at all funny.
Shortly after that he disappeared and I haven’t seen him there for about five years.
So, If the prat Stanton’s
So, If the prat Stanton’s neighbours’ toddler on his trike gets crushed to death by him as he leaves his drive the toddler would be to blame?
(No subject)
~X(
abudhabichris has hit the
abudhabichris has hit the nail on the head on this one. While some of the comments made by the Councillor aren’t acceptable, it does sound like this chap is going round looking for trouble.
“I was about to pull out when
“I was about to pull out when I noticed this wire going past the bonnet with a pennant on it” From the description the rider was in front of the car and the driver never looked right before setting off at the junction of the drive and road. Sounds like an admission of dangerous driving to me.
Wow, some “great” comments
Wow, some “great” comments already. I sometimes ride my recumbent’s and prefer it to my uprights, they are no more or less dangerous than a normal bike.
I would argue that because of their unusual shape and position, they draw more attention and therefore are seen clearer by other road users, especially when, like my other recumbent riders, I have mine decked out like a Christmas tree.
I’m off to stir it up with other recumbent riders and see if 1, we can find out who the rider is and 2, get this twats head on a plate (well my just his resignation) X(
He had his wife follow him
He had his wife follow him and film him? well according to the witness statements he does, no comment from the rider I note! Is that confrontational, perhaps he was just going on a ride and wanted a shot of him riding his new bike?
I note the usual criticisms about cyclists are suspiciously missing…
Been abusive? nope.
Assaulted another road user? nope.
Ridden in a dangerous manner? nope.
Ran red lights? nope.
Ridden on the pavement and knocked over a granny? nope.
Sounds like they are struggling to find a reason to hate him…
Ok so he has had an altercation with a tractor, plenty of stories on here are about people getting knocked off so hardly worthy of note. Basically this is all about him being a ‘menace’ purely because of his choice of bike, he rides a recumbent… lots of people do, hardly a crime.
“better off going to
“better off going to Dignitas” . This quote appealed instantly to the black side of my humour, could be a great one liner in the series ‘the thick of it’ equally applies to the kid in the car with go faster stripes and clapped out engine and the motor cyclist doing wheelies while weaving in and out of traffic. However coming from a councillor at a meeting discussing general safety shows a lack of community respect.
If your not easily visible to
If your not easily visible to other road users, then that could be regarded as unsafe. The Sinclair C5 (back in the day) got panned as being ‘unsafe’ due to its low profile, and recumbent’s are no different. I wouldn’t ride one… 😕
Are you for real? :O
nbrus wrote:
Gkam84
Yes I’m serious, are you blind?
Of course they are clearer to other road users, everyone is used to normal cyclist on the road, its alot rarer to see a recumbent and drivers seem to take more caution as they pass. There is always the idiot driver, but for the most part I am alot safer on my recumbent over my upright.
Gkam84 wrote:= its alot rarer
Recumbent owners I know would second this. The WFT?? factor when a driver sees a recumbent is considerable.
JohnS wrote:Gkam84 wrote:=
I dont think anyone is disputing the WTF factor, more that as you are lower to the ground it could be possible to be ‘lost’ behind the bonnet of another car or whatever, the potential is higher to be ‘missed’ by inattentive drivers (of course if drivers are inattentive then prob dosnt matter what your riding they will still act like idiots) but there ARE some (admitedly few) additional risks from a recumbent. If you see this as massively outweighed by the general getting more space and more consideration the other 99.9% of the time then maybe overal you are better off, never riden one so cant comment from that perspective.
I once read ‘There are two
I once read ‘There are two sides to every story and then there’s the truth’ which I think we need to bear in mind here. The idiot councillor said the sort of thing an overweight, 71 year old pick up driver would say. The comments about the collision with the tractor are hearsay.
If you read any bent riders’ forum there are lots of comments on how they are noticed because they are so low and most say that motorists give them more room on the road than upright bikes.
I would like to hear the recumbent rider’s side of things before jumping to any conclusions. However, if the old fart can’t see a recumbent, can he see a person in a wheelchair or a baby in a pushchair? As has been commented, a look to the left and right before emerging from his drive might be helpful.
“I was about to pull out when
“I was about to pull out when I noticed this wire going past the bonnet with a pennant on it, then I saw this fellow go past. If it had been one second later I would have killed him.”
Is that not the point? He did see it. Because the bent rider had taken the appropriate measures to help with his visibility.
compare with:
“I was about to pull out when I noticed a man pushing a pram with small baby in it. If it had been one second later I would have killed them both.”
As the copper says in the
As the copper says in the story, riding a recumbent is perfectly legal. Driving out of a side road or drive without looking properly is not.
Whether this recumbent rider is “looking for trouble” I don’t know. His wife could be making a film (assuming the reports of her following him around filming are true).
Either way, he’s within his rights to ride a bicycle on the roads, of any description.
Mostly what abudhabichris
Mostly what abudhabichris said up there.
But just to add my own noise to the chatter, I must admit i get terrified when I see recumbents in London. Pennant or not, if you’re a car behind the bike you just can’t see it. This has got to make it dangerous for cars passing through no fault of their own.
And fuck it, I’m really gonna play devil’s advocate for a moment here – why would you ride a recumbent? It’s more dangerous from a visibility point of view, it’s slower for anything except on the flat in a straight line, and people assume you’re a neck beard so treat you with utter contempt.
And this is coming from someone whose ideal number of bikes is n+85.
bashthebox wrote:it’s slower
I’d love to challenge you to a race. The only part I lose any time to an upright is going up a steep climb where they can get out of the seat, but that is more than made up for by my flat and downhill speed. I can corner MUCH faster than any upright apart from maybe the pro’s as my centre of gravity is very low and I have no worries about coming off.
For the folks who are saying being on a recumbent and cars not seeing you…..Here is an example of the exact thing on an upright
http://youtu.be/RU3I0tVtv7M
No-one can see everything all of the time. But in general, recumbent gets me more respect from drivers as they are wary to what they are passing, interested as to what it is and also, sometimes I am overtaking them 😉
@Gkam84
Yeah, walking down
@Gkam84
Yeah, walking down the street with a tinfoil helmet while talking loudly to invisible aliens will get you a lot more room as well.
abudhabiChris wrote:@Gkam84
👿 👿 Exactly the same, you do stand out a mile and people are wary of you. I don’t mind what people think. I ride upright most of the time, but because of past injuries, certain times I struggle, so jump on the recumbent’s. In a few years, I dare say it might be recumbent’s only or knee surgery :”(
abudhabiChris wrote:@Gkam84
Sounds like brilliant idea, the close-passing tw@t in the Golf today would have given us a wide berth!
Depending on how his driveway
Depending on how his driveway ended makes all the difference if you ask me.
My brothers driveway ends at the roadside with no pavements. The previous property owners had large shrubs planted along the front and until you very slowly pull out you cant see whats coming. Not dangerous driving by any means.
He will be cutting the bushes down lower to make viewing easier but it shows you cant just assume its a driveway, pavement then road set up can you 😕
Some contributors here seem
Some contributors here seem to think drivers can’t see things close to the ground. The Highwaymen don’t agree. They paint lane division lines on the road, and label these lanes with the names of directions or destinations. They put stop lines across the road and expect drivers to stop in the right place. They bury cats’ eyes in the tarmac.
All these things are a lot lower than a recumbent. My head on my recumbent is at much the same height as the head of the driver of an open top sports car. I use the usual road position safety strategies as I do on my uprights, and find I have no more problems than I do on them. There is a problem when emerging from behind a car, this is the same problem as a standard bike emerging from behind a larger vehicle, and it is quite straightforward to allow for.Some non-cyclists are horrified at the danger of riding any sort of bike on the road. All reading this must know that whilst there is danger, it is more apparent than real.
We really need to sort out
We really need to sort out ‘like’ buttons for comments… I’m with felixcat all the way on this one
‘bents are more noticed when
‘bents are more noticed when they can be seen. Sadly this isn’t the case always. It’s the one thing that has stopped me so far from having one. Its the same as missing the Ferrari because they are hidden between 2 transits. It happens. the various commentators at the council etc do seem especially daft though.
felixcat has made an
felixcat has made an important point. Does this idiot councillor not look for potholes, kerbs, road signs and markings either? Is he saying he reverses out of his driveway without due care and attention? If the cyclist was “in his path” then I would suggest that the cyclist had right of way.
I think the photo above the
I think the photo above the article should possibly be of a capsule bike or velo-car from Councillor Stanton’s description.
Even if he was riding a giant dildo, that’s an unfortunate attitude from a public official, and not very clever considering he has clearly admitted to not checking his mirrors or blind spot before pulling out.
I have to chuckle at the haters because recumbents were world beaters from the beginning. I think the UCI’s ban in the 1930s has more to do with the problems of mixing frame sizes in the peloton than an admission these machines are inferior.
I’ve owned a few, and have never pushed such big rings. Their speed and handling is as good as if not better than “normal” cycles. Sure they make you look a bit freakish. But any one who has ever waddled into a country pub wearing a nappy-assed lycra body stocking ought to be used to a few sniggers. It’s worth it.
In future, plenty of aging cyclists will endure the “indignities” of riding bent if they want to keep riding long distances without pain. Hopefully some of them will live in South Derbyshire.
I think this man and his wife are owed an apology from Mr. Stanton, whose bullying rhetoric and fear mongering is shameful behavior, and unacceptable considering the abysmal relations between motorists and ALL cyclists.
Viro Indovina wrote:I think
A velomobile something like this, has in the past been described as a giant dildo.
It also happens to be my winter project, building one of these but slightly different 😉
http://youtu.be/cE3KLphD73c
The anonymous tractor driver
The anonymous tractor driver will easily be able to dismiss the supposed £9000 claim from the mystery cyclist if, as implied, the latter rode into the back of his vehicle. I wonder if that’s what actually happened… if indeed anything happened at all.
Let’s say that I know a few
Let’s say that I know a few ‘bent riders on the Midlands.
One rides a fully enclosed machine and has collided with equipment extending out from the rear of a tractor, causing damage. It might be interesting if our friendly Community Safety Police Officer went round with the tape measure, just to check that the equipment did not extend beyond the permitted limits, without carrying a marker or lights.
The rider of the enclosed machine does not really need a flag – it is taller than a typical child, and taller than a Lotus Elise – now that would have been expensive for Cllr Stanton, as AFAIK they don’t fit pennants and flags to Lotus cars.
Clearly our happy band have no clue about recumbents – there are many of these flying about the roads, in S Derbyshire, given that the importer of Greenspeed trikes lives in that area and gets the occasional visitor. Indeed the former local Methodist minister in the area had one. They also have no clue about cameras – why have someone (assumed to be a wife) following behind to film you when you can have on board cameras with the bike!
The reporting standards for that paper show equally poor judgement when describing an incident when a young driver ‘assaulted an older (81 years) driver after an incident, occasioned by the older driver making slower progress in a congested street, the assault apparently AFTER she had opened his passenger door, exchanged words, and pushed her hand into his face “touching his nose” – and he gets done for assault?
Certainly worth biting your tongue when a driver mouths off and you really feel like landing one on them.
Cyclists are much less
Cyclists are much less visible than cars because of their smaller cross-sectional area when viewed from front/rear. A recumbent reduces this further due to their low height.
Only an idiot could claim this makes them more visible to other road users, particularly as there as so many situations where they can disappear completely from view below a car bonnet.
As recumbents are such an unusual sight, if they are noticed, then they do get a lot of attention … the result being that other road users are immediately at greater risk as those observing the recumbent are no longer focussed on, or paying attention to, what is happening in front of them. This puts everyone else at greater risk. Doesn’t it?
nbrus wrote:there as so many
As was said previously, so can small children; but does this mean you don’t look for them?
Simon E wrote:nbrus
Would you let a small child pass in front of a car hoping that the driver will look out for them?
nbrus wrote:Simon E
Would you let a small child pass in front of a car hoping that the driver will look out for them?— nbrus
If they were walking on the pavement past Cllr Stratton’s house possibly not, but AFIK small children are allowed to cross road and drivers (and everyone else) are expected to look out for them. Just as they are supposed to look our for Lotus Elise drivers and Ferraris.
nbrus wrote:Cyclists are much
One of my recumbent’s is wider than even a fat guy on an upright, it is also lit up like a Christmas tree, during the day or night. It is far more visible than most bikes, motorbikes and cars. Just because its lower to the ground, it does not reduce its visibility. As others have pointed out in this discussion. Do you fail to see the road markings painted on the road? If you cannot see them, you should not be on the road.
I would NEVER disappear completely from view below a car bonnet, unless it was going over the top of me and my bike. There are very FEW recumbent’s that would fall into the category you suggest and these are mainly keep for the track.
So if you think different, I guess that makes me an idiot??
So by someone taking notice of something else on the road and paying attention to it, it puts others at risk? WISE UP.
Would you have the same attitude to a driver paying attention to a rider on a horse, because they need infinitely more attention for safe passing and keeping your distance, not revving the engine…..etc
Gkam84 wrote:So by someone
The term ‘rubbernecking’ springs to mind…
“…Rubbernecking can cause further accidents as distracted motorists collide with vehicles around them…”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/02/car-accidents-prevention
nbrus wrote:Gkam84 wrote:So
I do understand what you mean, but the term is often used to refer to the activity of motorists slowing down in order to see something on the other side of a road.
Not something right infront of you. Your eyes should be focused ahead, so in theory, you should see a bicycle of any type, long before you arrive near them.
Gkam84 wrote:nbrus
If you’re ‘lit up like a Christmas tree’ then maybe motorists on the other side of the road will be distracted.
nbrus wrote:If you’re ‘lit up
Now now, behave, don’t go twisting things. The only people who are going to see my Christmas lights are those directly behind me.
During the day, I only have my rear lights going, various ones, A flasher, a static and one that has laser type lines on the road beside me to mark out my width.
At night, I have all those, plus a couple of indicators and my front lights, two static, one flasher and my front indicators.
If you are travelling in the opposite direction to me, all you are going to see are my fronts, which in some circumstances will look like a bike and sometimes a car, dependant on the road and light conditions.
Gkam84 wrote:During the day,
Wow … you really are concerned that you might not be seen. 😀
nbrus wrote:Gkam84
Wow … you really are concerned that you might not be seen. 😀— Gkam84
Better safe than sorry :O
nbrus wrote:
Wow … you
When you live in the middle of no where, only a few street lights in the village, but on no other roads, tree covered roads which have no light, even during the day and with the dark days no coming in, its even darker up here in Scotland.
Its not so much a concern that cars wont see me, its more that I need to see where I am going aswell. I have almost the same set up on my uprights 😉
Gkam84 wrote:Do you fail to
What if the road markings are obscured by other vehicles, or snow?
nbrus wrote:Gkam84 wrote:Do
I think it is pretty obvious that Gkam meant that if your vision is so poor that you cannot see etc. etc.
If snow obscures the markings then one rides or drives more carefully.
nbrus wrote:Gkam84 wrote:Do
Then a recumbent would be even more visible to any driver who should be on the road. If not then they need a dog and a white stick.
Gkam84 wrote:One of my
You obviously are aware of the dangers and take appropriate precautions … very wise.
nbrus wrote:You obviously are
You obviously are aware of the dangers and take appropriate precautions … very wise.[/quote]
Don’t you use lights on your upwrong?
Gkam84 wrote:One of my
Sounds like an admission that recumbents are more difficult to see, hence the extra lights to try and grab attention. 😕
Oh – you should modify the
Oh – you should modify the story. They allege it is just one cyclist – indications are that it is definitely two if not more recumbent riders, that Cllr Stanton may to run over because he fails to account for the huge blind spot in front of his vehicle.
And they allege that the rider assumed to be a he, is being followed by their wife (amazing powers of telepathy there? or have they someone in mind but realise they could end up in court for libel)
‘Pennant or not, if you’re a
‘Pennant or not, if you’re a car behind the bike you just can’t see it. ‘
Quality. I have never, ever failed to see a recumbent in front of me. Mind you, that could be because I don’t tend to drive 2cm from their rear wheel.
andyp wrote:’Pennant or not,
We need all drivers to be like you…
Wow. This thread is becoming
Wow. This thread is becoming pretty special. Shirley all ‘legitimate’ road users should be given respect by others in/on different vehicles. To refer back to the original post, the Councillors comments are clearly a disgrace. This ‘man’ is supposed to represent all of his constituents regardless of their legal mode of transport. The ‘Journalists’ on this rag share responsibility too, whipping up these malicious and dangerous comments. Obviously this ‘person’ finds it easier to reveal his own inadequacies as a driver by picking on more vulnerable road users.
AlexStriplight wrote:Wow.
Yep, agree with everything you’ve said. The councillor is a jerk and sounds like a potentially dangerous driver. Recumbents aren’t the most visible of things. I wouldn’t ride one in traffic. But some people do and if they take care to ensure visibility, what’s wrong with that?
How do you do £9K’s worth of
How do you do £9K’s worth of damage to a tractor by hitting it with a recumbent?
Irrespective of the debate between uprights and ‘bents, this councillor should be on a warning for his Dignitas comment alone – terrible thing to say.
And maybe a refresher course on how to operate a car. I’m sure even he isn’t too high and mighty not to use mirrors!!
moonbucket wrote:How do you
I thought it was £9k damage to the recumbent, not the tractor. £9k to a bike is not easily done either, but if its the bike I’m thinking of, thats just a fairing
One of my colleagues rides a
One of my colleagues rides a recumbent trike, and in the past we’ve shared part of our route to work. I occasionally I’d end up following him in, and he stood out to drivers like a sore thumb. People would literally stop in the road and stare at him. I can barely conceive of a cycled vehicle that would be more noticeable.
Frankly reversing out of a
Frankly reversing out of a driveway should be made illegal. It is far easier to reverse in and come out forwards where you can see what’s coming. I reverse in always.
Small children are very much at risk by reversing drivers.
I’m a serious roadie who
I’m a serious roadie who transitioned to recumbent biking this season (due to a neck injury). I often ride in high traffic areas and have to be cautious of the traffic around me. I was careful to choose a style of recumbent that stands about as tall as a regular diamond framed bike (in order to maintain my visibility to cars around me). The “low-racer” style of recumbent that you show in the photo is almost invisible to car traffic (depending on their angle of approach, etc). I feel comfortable riding my “high racer” style recumbent in traffic (or at least as safe/ comfortable as I did on a standard bike). I have not notified any difference in the public’s attitude while riding recumbent -vs- upright (… the jerks are still jerks). The gentleman in your story should consider a) quiete’r/ less trafficed areas to ride in, if possible or a). Changing over to a more visible high-racer style of recumbent for his own safety.
I think this guy lives in my
I think this guy lives in my village as he used to do a good job in annoying drivers by having his Mrs follow him, meaning that on some of the twisty roads there was no way to overtake them both resulting in tailbacks of angry drivers. Always seemed a bit ridiculous to do this to me. It just gives more reason for drivers to hate cyclists. Interestingly I was just sending a lead to this to a local newspaper I work for and my spell check corrected cllr Stanton to ‘clot’ Stanton!
A peg and card would make him
A peg and card would make him audible but there are none as blind as will not see so they probably wouldn’t hear either.
I must confess I wouldn’t ride one of those things – I suppose I just don’t get it
Sounds like our next
Sounds like our next recumbent rally needs to be in S. Derbyshire, eh? 🙂
Recently got back from the
Recently got back from the British Legion Pedal to Paris and a guy there had a massive union flag on his recumbent. No way of not seeing that but the drag must have been massive.