This week a BT Sport survey found that 80 per cent of women athletes polled felt pressure to conform to a certain look and body type.
Hold that thought for a second – the vast majority of athletes, women at the top of their game physically, are facing pressure from the media, social media, coaches, sports officials and other athletes to look a certain way – as Rebecca Adlington put it on that jungle programme through a curtain of tears: ‘stick thin, big boobs and a pretty face.’
76 of the athletes said their behaviour had been influenced – so they might change their diet (87 per cent), or their training (58 per cent). One athlete said she developed an eating disorder, while another said: “Sometimes it has meant my diet no longer is optimum for performance but becomes optimum for looking slimmer/thinner….which isn't my body type.”
Perhaps some of the pressure comes from the way women athletes are constantly being pursued to pose naked – although perhaps the highest profile British woman pro cyclist, Victoria Pendleton, didn’t seem too concerned about going nude in GQ magazine before the Olympics.
“I don’t suppose it does bother me really,” she said. “I have done a few sexy photoshoots, I’ve been told I’ve got a nice bum, plus when I compete I am wearing a skin suit, so really, what’s the difference?”
Having said that, she’s also said that she was ‘saddened’ to have her muscles airbrushed out of media images, to make her look ‘more feminine’, and told BT Sport this week: “I think that it would be really valuable if women were celebrated for their achievements more.”
It’s easy to think these superstars should get over it – stop looking at the abuse on Twitter, ignore the insecurity and think of the pound signs – but there’s a more insidious side to all of this.
Women already battle a number of reasons not to get on a bike every day. From bike shop assistants who don’t understand women’s cycling needs or patronise them, to employers who don’t provide showers or decent changing facilities, to clubs that don’t know how to cater to women, to traffic fears when cycling with children – the list of reasons not to get onto a saddle can seem endless.
The Australian Heart Foundation’s report into women and cycling last year found the need to transport children and cycling clothes being unfashionable were the reasons a third of women gave for men cycling more than them.
Whether or not you think these are valid excuses to choose a car over a bike, it’s hard to argue it’s a good thing these women aren’t cycling.
So let’s not give women any more reasons to leave the bike at home.
Here’s how not to be a dick to a female cyclist in six simple steps*
1. Do not fetishise her
Women on bikes don’t want your pervy comments any more than they want your rude ones. Victoria Pendleton probably gets a tiny bit of sick in her mouth every time some guy tells her how much he likes to look at her in cycling shorts.
Many women already feel self-conscious putting it all on show, so make like you haven’t noticed it, okay?
If you have some creepy thing about tight Lycra, keep it to yourself, or look online for some like-minded weirdos to share it with instead.
2. Do not harass her
I know you might not be one of them, but those guys exist. The ones who shout things out of car windows, or worse, film your arse as you ride along (yep, it happens). Don’t do it – it’s probably illegal and it’s never ended well for any guy who’s tried it with me.
3. Don’t put mean comments under reviews of women’s clothing
When we review women’s clothing at road.cc, we do it so women know whether a bit of gear is worth forking out for. When we photograph a woman wearing it, we do it so she gets a vague idea of whether she likes the look of it.
What we don’t do is photograph it so you get to leer all over that woman in tight clothing, comment on whether or not she is ‘really’ a cyclist or suggest some super-helpful diet or exercise tips for her to look more like a ‘real’ cyclist.
Besides being unpleasant for the woman in the picture, take a second to think about how an 'ordianary' woman thinking about taking up riding is going to feel about the reception she might get.
4. Don’t put mean comments under reviews of men’s clothing, either
One of our male reviewers often gets mocked for being too skinny, and some bloke last week decided to point out that he doesn’t have 'proper cyclists legs' – which was quite funny as he's just got a semi-pro contract with a Belgian team for the season.
Just don’t body snark – it just makes you look like a dick.
5. Do speak out
If you see a woman (or a man) getting abused for any reason, do speak out. Tell that person their Tweet wasn’t cool. Call out the pervy guy on the club run. The person on the receiving end will be grateful and if 0.00001% of knobs change their attitude because of what you said, that’s still progress.
6. Don’t give unsolicited ‘advice’
The girls you know who cycle might really want your advice on what protein shakes to have for breakfast, or how sprint intervals will make them leaner, or whatever. If they want it, they’ll ask.
If they don’t, they’ll just carry on riding whatever bike they chose, wearing whatever they picked out for the purpose, eating whatever tastes good. But thanks for your concern.
*There are probably loads more ways not to be a knob to women on bikes. Feel free to add your own in the comments below.




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105 thoughts on “How not to be a knob to female cyclists”
i like this post, my main
i like this post, my main training partner is a girl and she can smash most blokes i know,
agreed about the comments on people in photos appearance, theres no need for it
Nice one Sarah. I’d add:
Make
Nice one Sarah. I’d add:
Make women’s races as long as men’s. Women are as tough (often tougher) than men, are pre-disposed to endurance and withstanding pain. Not that it really needs explanation. Just make it the same. Easy.
Don’t market clothing for women as though to men. Porny images of hot chicks with bodypaint. Etc.
Women racers are athletes, not sympathy cases. They could probably crush you on a bike.
Elite women will have a higher body fat % than men. Its nature. Not a sign of commitment. They’ll still f*** you up.
You look more of a dick attacking to pass a woman who just passed you, when you blow 400m down the road and she passes you again.
Lots more. Great blog Sarah. There’s a good girl.
Women are as tough (often
Hear hear. Women often do way better than men in ultra marathons..
7. Don’t surge after she
7. Don’t surge after she overtakes you.
Accept that she was is a faster rider than you, you have been caught, you need to concentrate on your ride. Don’t surge to overtake her, fall back and then try again.
Trull wrote:7. Don’t surge
I don’t treat female cyclists any different to men, though in general they go past me on climbs, but I always seem to pass them on descents, I’m not trying to prove anything, it’s just where fat boys make their time up.
Ooops, forgot.
Podium girls
Ooops, forgot.
Podium girls (bad) and equal prize money (good).
Cracking article. Needed
Cracking article. Needed saying.
Nicely written, although I
Nicely written, although I don’t think I’ve understood point 6. Do you really mean to say no advice should ever be given to anyone (note: not just women) unless it is asked for?
I’m sure the point is aimed at those who think anyone perceived to be stereotypically ‘weaker’ needs coaxing along at any opportunity, but having seen a similar attitude based on age and other irrelevant metrics, I think you’re looking at it from the wrong angle.
From my own experience of giving and receiving advice, I think the distinction should be on the offering of the advice.
Compare these generic techniques:
“You’re doing it wrong, you need to do it this way…”
“I think I can help you with this, would you mind my input?”
I’ll take reasonable advice from anyone, but for me personally, much more rests on being able to explain and/or back up your advice, rather than falling back on “…because I’m experienced and I say so.”
Hmm, I knew some people would
Hmm, I knew some people would say that, guyonabike.
It’s maybe something you only find irritating if you’re a girl, idk.
Some advice really is helpful (like the time it was pointed out to me tipping nose of the saddle ever so slightly up or down can make life a whole lot more comfortable) – most of the time it’s a way guys point out their ‘superiority’ in a cloak of ‘advice’.
Nicely written, although I
Nicely written, although I don’t think I’ve understood point 6. Do you really mean to say no advice should ever be given to anyone (note: not just women) unless it is asked for?
I’m sure the point is aimed at those who think anyone perceived to be stereotypically ‘weaker’ needs coaxing along at any opportunity, but having seen a similar attitude based on age and other irrelevant metrics, I think you’re looking at it from the wrong angle.
From my own experience of giving and receiving advice, I think the distinction should be on the offering of the advice.
Compare these generic techniques:
“You’re doing it wrong, you need to do it this way…”
“I think I can help you with this, would you mind my input?”
I’ll take reasonable advice from anyone, but for me personally, much more rests on being able to explain and/or back up your advice, rather than falling back on “…because I’m experienced and I say so.”
I continue to be embarrassed
I continue to be embarrassed and amazed by the number of otherwise sensible male cyclists who turn into complete idiots when they meet a woman who rides.
If you wouldn’t say it to a woman in any other situation don’t say it just because she’s in lycra.
I agree with every word and
I agree with every word and it needs saying again and again. And it needs to be shouted down the (cloth) ears of an awful lot of people in sales and marketing.
It has crossed my mind a few
It has crossed my mind a few times and undoubtedly many other’s as to how our perception must be so heavily influenced by “the media”. To the point that normal is not normal anymore.
Good bit of sobriety above.
The advice thing is a tricky
The advice thing is a tricky one. If you see someone who is struggling on a bike that is obviously too big or too small or has saddle set way too low, do you let them carry on wasting energy and possibly wrecking their knees?
I know someone who finds it virtually impossible to pass someone whose bike is set up wrong without offering a comment. But she’s a cycling coach and runs two bike shops…
No problems with the above
No problems with the above but it suggests that we should treat women differently. You would tell a bloke if he was pedalling like a monkey so why not a women.
Ah of course, They are sensitive things aren’t they.
Tosh
mattsccm wrote:No problems
I think you might have just confirmed yourself to be a knob…
mattsccm wrote:
Ah of course,
Its just Sarah trying to add balance to the comments and stir it up a bit. Weak Sarah, weak!
aslongasicycle wrote:mattsccm
It’s not me, promise! I’m basking in the glow of comments actually being nice for a change…
mattsccm wrote:No problems
I feel a little patronised by this article – or is that matronised?! I’m not sure you’d get away with an article about how to treat male cyclists either – though I grant the patronising usually goes one way. Why not an article about how to respect other cyclists – no gender bias – you can then talk about sexist behaviour under general topic areas of bad etiquette.
Actually the point about being overtaken is something that men do to anyone – I can’t say I do it a lot as I don’t get over taken a lot by anyone, but given a rabbit, fast or slow, male or female, I would probably use it to better my effort. Just don’t take it personal (as a sexist attitude or otherwise). Just be confident in yourself.
I managed to not be a knob to
I managed to not be a knob to a couple of female roadies only this afternoon. It was easy, they were fixing a puncture by the roadside. I did out of courtesy say ‘alright?’ as I pedalled past, to which I got a positive reply and thus I singlespeeded my way away secure in my knowledge that women can fix bikes too and that I ought to focus my thoughts on the bastard-steep little climb in front of me (Croydon Hill, for the Bedfordshire types here)
No wolf whistles or leering or Leslie Phillips Well Hellos or anything. See, its easy really. 😀
7. Always assume females wear
7. Always assume females wear pink everything all of the time and portray as such in every article relating to female cycling.
Tick
Advice from a stranger? I
Advice from a stranger? I wouldn’t thank you for it, unless, of course, you knew the history behind why I’m doing what I’m doing and had a reasonable relationship with me, and finally that you were a person whose opinion I would respect.
Hopefully the article will make a few think twice before entering into a bit of banter.
Funnily, I would never give a
Funnily, I would never give a stranger advice, but on the other hand, some advice which a stranger (and a woman) gave me has saved me a lot of grief with my pedalling. I am very grateful for the fact that she said something to me!
I would actually like to say
I would actually like to say a big “Thnak you” the all the knobs of a local cycling club, the ones that used to fly past me, as a puffed along, blubber wobbling, trying to shed the 9stone I gained after surgery & the hospital acquired infection, the ones that made snide comments, the ones that sniggered, the ones that made Mooing noises.
Yep I thnak you all…. 7yrs later I ride for another local club, and my Strava stats wipe the floor with yours.
hugebob wrote:I’m from the
I’m not sure what a ‘knobe’ is but a ‘knob’ is a ‘dick’ to you guys 🙂
I’m from the United States.
I’m from the United States. So, I’m not quite sure what a “knob” is. Is that like being a jerk? If you’re a guy and you see a woman having difficulty, you want to help. So, as did the poster above, just slow up and ask if she needs help. If she answers yes, give her the same help you would if it were a man and move on.
I agree with Russyparkin, I
I agree with Russyparkin, I train with a young lady that can and does tear the men to pieces on as bike including me at times. Though advice should be given regardless of gender and we should fear giving advice in case we offend people.
Startling sad that it is
Startling sad that it is necessary to post a piece on how men should behave around women.
Things aren’t quite so cute
Things aren’t quite so cute on the road.cc Facebook page. Why is FB always the lowest common denominator?
aslongasicycle wrote:Things
you can always flag an “inappropriate” post on FB to the FB team.
Unsurprising that the mantra
Unsurprising that the mantra ‘don’t give unsolicited advice’ is something that some on here have difficulty accepting (it’s a forum of knowledgeable enthusiasts, after all)..
I do try to live by this but easily said, not as easily done!
Just read the comments on fb
Just read the comments on fb following any updates from the Wiggle Honda team to get an idea of the that are out knobs out there.
Cringeworthy doesn’t even come close :&
Interesting to see a general
Interesting to see a general theme from some posters on here. “I know a girl and she would ‘kill’ you on the bike” etc (I’m paraphrasing).
I don’t care.
I also don’t care if I pass you and I don’t care if you pass me and you’re a bloke/girl/elephant/whatever.
Yes it’s sad that this article needed writing, I agree with the sentiment.
My brother is a triathlete
My brother is a triathlete and a marathon runner. He does ultra-marathons, and fancies himself as expert Iron Man athlete (he hasn’t done one yet!)
My sister decided to do a triathlon after 20 years of no training for anything. Advice galore from brother, comments like “I’ll stay back with you”, etc… Heavy bike, wrong gear, cheap running shoes … she thrashed him.
Some people are just naturally better athletes <:P
goggy wrote:My brother is a
Ah yes, I love this post; and it’s so true, some are natural at whatever sport they try! My Daughter is exactly that way; it comes easy to her; although, she always waits for her old DAD to catch up.
I know plenty of female
I know plenty of female mountain bikers, they have bigger balls than most men who ride. I have even asked one who is a very good down hill racer and was a national champ for advice and I’m not ashamed to ask either.
I would be lying if I said I don’t think women look sexy in lycra but I wouldn’t say it. No different to women saying it about blokes and it does happen both ways.
How to be a knob … tell
How to be a knob … tell other people how not to be a knob.
Unless you’re racing or it’s
Unless you’re racing or it’s baking hot, why not wear stuff over the Lycra? I do
a.jumper wrote:Unless you’re
Why should anyone have to?
aslongasicycle wrote:a.jumper
You don’t have to, but it’s personal choice whether to show off every curve and bump or not. Personally, I feel uncomfortable in only figure-hugging lycra, so I buy padded undershorts or tights designed to be worn under other clothes.
There’s no excuse for some of the pervy behaviour like bum-filming and so on, but if you “feel self-conscious” there are alternatives which don’t seem to occur to some cyclists and I don’t understand why…
(No subject)
=D>
Wow… This piece has been
Wow… This piece has been enlightening.
I’m fairly comfortable in my ability to interact/not interact with female cyclists, but wow, I never knew there was so much animosity (from both sexes) to receiving advice/suggestions from fellow cyclists.
Personally, I want to be told every tip, hear every suggestion for ways to make my cycling better, so I find it weird and alien that this is not a genuinely shared sentiment.
Are you really saying you’d prefer to ride along making obvious mistakes that will compromise comfort/enjoyment/performance/safety than ‘endure’ the horror that someone might be more experienced, may be able to offer an objective third party viewpoint that helps… Wow.
This has changed my cycling and I will never offer advice to a cyclist again. How weird that trying to help should be twisted around to become a cynical display of superiority… Weird
Jimmy Ray Will wrote:Wow…
I would not give unsolicited advice to an unknown adult except in the most extreme circumstances where saying nothing could have serious consequences.
Even with family and friends, IMO, it is often better to allow them to learn from their own ‘mistakes’ rather than butting in with an unwanted opinion. For example, I found it extremely difficult to keep my big mouth shut when my daughter at University started dating an absolute buffoon. If I had stuck my nose in her business, she would probably still be with him, just to spite her meddling dad and assert her independence.
Even as a teacher of post 16 students, you really cannot begin to teach effectively until you have built a relationship with the kids, so that they trust you, believe in your competence and believe that you genuinely care and have their best interests at heart. Only then will they have the confidence to ask for your advice and not mind when they are stuck if you humbly suggest that an alternative approach to the problem might bear fruit. Long gone are the days where kids feel that they have to listen to anything you say, just because you are an adult and in theory have more experience than they do.
I don’t believe this is a male/female thing either.
Not really being into the
Not really being into the club run thing or the mass sportive type gathering this isn’t something I have come across but it clearly goes on. Surely it is the sort of thing clubs would want to not tolerate ?
I’d be rather embarrassed to ride with someone behaving as outlined above.
But really… Wow. Just
But really… Wow. Just thought about it some more. I did once talk to a very accomplished female cyclist on a ride, talking about biomechanics. During that conversation as way of example I did explain that the nature of her obvious foot pronation meant she could benefit from a different shoe manufacturer… She really didn’t like it.
Now I understand, she felt that I was trying to ‘lord’ it over her, to patronise her… I thought I was trying to help a competitive cyclist be more competitive.
How enlightening.
Good article, some fair
Good article, some fair points…shame in this day and age it had to be said
We had a young lady joining
We had a young lady joining our club last year and after a few runs i did have to say to her: “I don’t want to get too personal, but do you know you’re not supposed to wear anything under your bibshorts?” Had the same conversation with a new guy in the club just weeks later, which somehow was a lot easier 😕
Dutchie wrote:We had a young
To me that would too personal to approach an unknown young lady. That is definitely something left for another woman to tell her the “unwritten rules” about cycling. I would imagine if she continues to ride with the same group , then you just became “that creepy guy” who was checking out her underwear situation.
I’m surprised no one
I’m surprised no one commented on the woman in the photo. 😀 Another unwritten rule for roadies, no arm warmers with sleeveless jerseys. B-)
Dutchie wrote:We had a young
I still can’t believe that in 2014 we’re still having debates like this. However, it’s posts like the one quoted above that makes articles like this necessary. I’m all for equality but the fact of the matter is we’re all different. Men have different reasons to women for wanting to ride. Men have different “equipment needs” to women when it comes to bike, saddle and clothing. Forgive me because I don’t want to be “personal” or anything but this might be news to you but whilst it’s virtually unheard of for a man to wear anything under his bibshorts, most women do wear underwear underneath, especially at certain times of the month . Surprisingly, our anatomy is different; lady bits and chamois don’t tend to make a great combination and lots of women prefer to keep their underwear on. Not that the undergarments of your new lady cycling buddy are any of your business mind you, all your “personal” advice probably did was make her think you were a complete moron. Either that or you’ve now given the wrong advice to someone. Hopefully it’s just the former and she’s not now riding around with chaffed nether regions because some bloke at the club told her she was wearing the wrong gear. Now, I appreciate it won’t have occurred to you that there was a good reason why she might be wearing underwear. Likewise, I do know a couple of lady cyclists who go commando and are quite happy. Like most things, it’s personal preference. The issue for me is that you even thought it was appropriate to say that to a lady joining your group. If she wants to ride in jogging bottoms who are you to comment? It wouldn’t be my personal preference but if she’s keeping up and her bottoms aren’t getting stuck in her chain then fine. If your group is anything like ours, there aren’t many women who join and those that do are usually put off the banter after a couple of weeks or can’t keep up, or both. A good cycling group should do nothing but be polite and welcoming. I’ve seen plenty of men riding along looking like complete idiots. Anything from hairy legs that resemble my carpet after my pet Labrador has had a good old scratch rolling up to the start line of a road race (which I personally don’t see what all the fuss was about but I’m told by my fellow male cyclists arguably comes under the same category as riding with underwear under your bibs), to plenty of mechanical faux pas like riding along with their brakes stuck on, and even a bloke who had his kit on inside out. Not to mention the countless ‘monkey on stick’ riding styles where the operative has clearly purchased a bike two sizes too small because it was in the sales or had a nice name on it. Your new lady cyclist might not have your idea of the correct etiquette when it comes to undergarments but at least she had it all on the right way round. All of these things have made me chuckle to myself or have a good old giggle with my husband on the way home, but I’d never embarrass one of these fellow cyclists by commenting so openly on it, certainly not in front of others.
I don’t doubt that after I post this the anti-feminist brigade will be out in force and I’ll be down as a man hater or even this post will be removed for being too much. Actually, it has nothing to do with being a feminist, it’s not even got much to do with being a woman or indeed a man. It has to do with being polite. Next time you or any one else on this forum thinks they might like to make a comment or give someone “advice”, have a think, is this polite?
Yes, I’m a woman. Yes, I’m a cyclist. Yes, I’ve had awful comments made to me both out on the bike and at work when arriving in my cycling gear. And, yes, I think that more needs to be done to encourage women to get out on their bikes at all – either together or mixed groups, it doesn’t matter. However, I guarantee that if people continue to make comments like some people make on this forum, not just those derogatory comments about women, then this website is doing nothing to encourage anyone into the sport, let alone women. And, just for the record, next time you see a woman wearing underwear under her bibs, just leave her to it!
excellent points made,
excellent points made, certainly gives food for thought…well said.
MB
Personally I treat any female
Personally I treat any female cyclist the exact same I would any male. I do that off the bike and in the real world as well, it’s called being adult.
As for advice, I’d never offer unsolicited advice, I’m not a pro just a keen amateur, but I’m happy to accept it from serious riders.
I’ve also no macho issues about women flying past me. I don’t ride to compete with others, I ride to compete with me.
“Women already battle a
“Women already battle a number of reasons not to get on a bike every day…. to employers who don’t provide showers or decent changing facilities, the list of reasons not to get onto a saddle can seem endless.”
That obstacle applies only to women?
Couldn’t care who passes me
Couldn’t care who passes me as i just like to ride, always say good morning or afternoon whoever they are
How about road.cc showing an
How about road.cc showing an example and create more women specific content (reviews, forum, news, advice etc.). Put those articles in a separate tab on your site, so that it is easy to find. Attract more female readers.
For blokes road.cc is very helpful, for women… probably not so much.
For example, I’d like to encourage my girlfriend to ride a bike, but I wouldn’t know what would be the best women specific bike to get her. If you had separate forum for women I could ask them where to look for best closing for her etc.
P.S. Let me guess, less than 10% of road.cc active users are women.
rix wrote:How about road.cc
I’ve been hankering after wanting to suggest this for AGES, road.cc that would be awesome! (and if you need anyone to fill content I’m sure I wouldn’t be alone in piping up for the cause).
On the subject of #6 (seems to be popular) – while advice is great, and cyclists who are more experienced should always be on hand to help someone who perhaps is a little newer – sometimes we (the ladies) get a little more than necessary. Sometimes it gets very much overly patronising, and comes across from some people as a “there there dear, this is how you do it, I know I can’t expect you to understand” kind of way. Like, for example, on strava – completely random strangers commenting on my rides with unrealistic training advice (even though it’s well known I use a coaching company, that’s who I’ve been riding for for the last year), or comments like “did you know your max hr is too high?” – no, mate, I didn’t notice. O.o
I’ve lost count of the amount of guys I know and don’t know both in person and on social media making crude comments about lady cyclists, sometimes directly at me, often some of them being UNDER the age of 18 (and at times even 15) – it’s disgusting. I’m not a girly girl and I’m all for a bit of below the belt banter but these are people who expect respect in the peloton, yet still deem it necessary to belittle and objectify female cyclists as if it were the 1950’s.
I’m fed up with it, quite frankly. Vicky P did NOT help as it seems that since then guys have found it OK to comment about my boobs when pics of me racing are posted – not only does that make me feel both self conscious and angry but I can’t even begin to imagine how distressing it is for my partner.
Don’t even get me started on the idiot from [ateamwhowillnotbenamed] who kicked off on twitter yesterday about there being a ladies race at CDNW. >.< It's not right, in fact its less than not right.
It’s sad that such an article
It’s sad that such an article need exist, but I can understand why. I’ve seen some guys be horrid to lady cyclists. On the point of unsolicited advice, I’ve only given it a handful of times, to anyone I’ve seen with rocking hips due to a saddle height that is too high, but that’s the only case in which I’ve done that. I have a female cyclist in my club who asks me for advice about anything and everything cycling, from kit to maintenance, and I’m happy to help cos everyone is in the situation of knowing little at some point in their cycling career. That, and our best rider is a lady, she kicks everyone’s ass, and frequently makes us want to die when she puts the hammer down.
I’ve never understood the sexist vitriol that exists in society, hopefully things like this make people realise when they’re being a knob and thereby change their ways
OK, I looked at the photo at
OK, I looked at the photo at the top of this page; and at first I thought it was my Daughter???? She is a cyclist! The bike is identical and that cheesy thumbs up – gritted teeth look are typical of my daughter. Both my wife and me thought it was her? Then we saw the pink water bottle; She uses the same colour bottles as the Blue on the Ladies Cube Agree GTC. Colour co,ordinated at all times for her beloved bike.
I agree with some of the comments on here? and some I don’t agree with! Treat everyone with respect; male or female, Oh; and BTW. most genuine ladies appreciate a kindly comments on their appearence from time to time. No snyde ones or rude ones; just genuine comments, Lets appreciate everyone riding a bicycle and not let GENDER get in the way of it.
Do not bust your balls to
Do not bust your balls to overtake a female cyclist who has just overtaken you. This happens to men too I’m sure but way more often if the person who has just overtaken you is female. I mean seriously.
Pendleton’s naked images probably did little for female respect on a bicycle as per your point about not fetishing female cyclists.
Anyhow, male or female, cycling is an ugly sport (minor plug of a blog post): Marginal gains and gross indecency – The ugly side of a beautiful sport
Finally convinced my wife to
Finally convinced my wife to expand her bike ‘fleet’ from a 10 year old ‘do it all’ Specialized Hardrock to include a road bike. On the second outing she was leaving me for dust and climbing in a lower gear!
Perhaps someone should offer
Perhaps someone should offer a bit of friendly advice to this bloke with regard to tightening helmet straps….
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/alberto-contador-probe/story-e6frg7mf-1226195363535
I’m sure he’d be grateful for a word from the wise.
😀
Just wondering…it’s not
Just wondering…it’s not just women who are riding around in lycra – do men feel pressure to conform to a certain look and body type as well? Surely guys feel a bit hurt every time they are referred to as the ‘fat bloke at the back’ etc ?
Surely pretty much all of
Surely pretty much all of these are just real-life common sense and either you’re one of those assholes or you’re not; I doubt anyone needed them pointing out.
Except #6. Who knew women were more antagonised by getting advice than men? To be totally honest, I’ve only ever given unrequested advice to someone when they’re doing something dangerous and I’ll continue to do it (male or female). If they want to ignore me then fine, but I’d rather I tell someone that, say, they should really not be yanking on the brakes on a wet fast descent going round a corner than have to call an ambulance for them later.
I hate the kind of people #6
I hate the kind of people #6 refers to… the boorish bloke who drones on and on telling you how you’re doing it wrong when the entire subject is entirely subjective. It’s bad enough bloke-on-bloke, let alone bloke-on-woman in the context of a patriarchal society and everyday sexism.
I think what’s worse though is when I’m with my partner and one of these types comes over… and completely ignores her existence whilst plying me with unwanted advice. Although in some ways I think she gets off lightly in these cases…
There are loads of bike
There are loads of bike clothing brands who make lightweight, close-ish-fitting padded shorts suitable for long rides in, that ‘aren’t lycra’. The sort of thing you can actually kick about in all day on or off the bike. I don’t think these are given nearly enough exposure in the road cycling world.
If you can do 150km all-day on a MTB, in baggies, with zero chafing/flapping etc, there’s no reason you can’t do 150k on the road.
Like the helmet ‘debate’, in saying there’s an alternative to lycra I’m not saying lycra is bad. Just that there’s a viable and comfortable alternative.
Maybe if cyclists – male and female – were made aware there’d be less of an issue.
Clearly cycling draws
Clearly cycling draws participants from across social boundaries and with different behaviour and opinions. As much as we’d nod in misplaced smug self-satisfaction at that Facebook post that states (something like) ‘cyclists are more intelligent than average’, we’re not a homogeneous group just because we ride: it appeals to all sorts, and just as in wider society there’ll always be unpleasant ‘knobs’. So it’s not really a ‘bike thing’. Treat women the way you’d want to see your mother/sister/wife/partner/daughter treated, and you’re probably not far off, and challenge sexist behaviour where you find it. One last thing, without wanting to undermine the serious nature if this thread: I always thought it was ‘nob’, as in the sightly-more-amusing put-down ‘nobber’?
I don’t agree with point 6.
I don’t agree with point 6. As a female cyclist (& I imagine I would be the same if I was a man) I always appreciate advise. To be honest I would rather someone told me something useful which I would never think to ask. Knowledge is key, & at the end of the day you can take it or leave it.
I do find this article a bit strange, in a way that it seems to have highlighted an issue, that to me, is not there. Yes, when I overtake some men, they do overtake me back, but I find it funny & its usually the same type of person. The type of person who would be the same in any walk of life, on a bike or not. Anyway, I find the more enthusiastic & addicted riders on a club run are actually pretty impressed that a young girl can hack it with the better riders, & I love that 😀 (But maybe that’s the attitude this article is trying to put a stop to, who knows) 😐
I do find this article a bit
I do find this article a bit strange, in a way… Yes, when I overtake some men, they do overtake me back, but I find it funny & its usually the same type of person. The type of person who would be the same in any walk of life, on a bike or not.
[[[[[[ Look on the bright side. These blokes who “re-overtake” you—at least they’re not sitting an inch off your rear wheel, staring at your…er…rear.
P.R.
fancynancy wrote:
I do
[[[[[ Well, fancynancy, would most women rather have these geezers (a) “re-overtaking” them—or (b) riding behind them for a mile? If I were female, and sensitive, I think I know which option I’d prefer. But as a chap, I also get “re-overtaken” by other chaps….and the older I get, the more I shrug…
P.R.
I let on to all roadies
I let on to all roadies (unless they are wearing full Assos kit and riding a £8k Pinarello) but do notice that young females tend not to reciprocate.
I dont have a problem with this i hasten to add because im sure it could be misconstrued as sleazy but its a sad indictment that they must feel that way.
Sadly i dont think the “You dont want to do it like that” type just direct their ‘advice’ only to females but they probably just find it easier to patronise women, so do it more.
Wow… I really will never
Wow… I really will never offer advice ever again.
I think I may be a relic from the sports past… back in my day, the club scene was quite hierarchical, there were the ‘special’ ones that everyone wanted to become… anything thing that helped you get there was grabbed at, and should a ‘special one’ notice you and try and help… well hells bells, that must mean you had something.
In hindsight, this was all rather silly, but as a 17 year old, it gave direction, focus and purpose.
I think these days, people enter the sport at a later age (it is an adult discovery for many) and I’m guessing, the last thing grown adults want, is someone telling them what to do, to be applying some form of hierarchy upon them.
Interestingly insightful.
The last time I gave some
The last time I gave some unsolicited advice it was to a triathlete newbie, 20+ years my junior, it was about her helmet. Her chin strap was so loose that she could have put both her forearms between her chin and the strap.
Don’t really see the point of
Don’t really see the point of the article tbh, just sounds like someone having a whinge because someone hasn’t been nice to them. If you think someone is being a knob because they offer you unsolicited advice, is it them genuinely trying to be helpful; if that causes you a problem, just say thanks but no thanks, no need to start getting excited and branding them as knobs. If someone is doing something that is offensive and illegal report them, if not ignore them they’ll soon get bored, otherwise there are people who do unpopular things, you should just MTFU and get on with it. If you can’t do that, ride with someone else, I’m sure it wouldn’t bother them if you did.
How about female races in
How about female races in fantasy cycling??? 😀
King of the Mountains
This year there is the 9 races of the Women’s World Cup included, definitely a start 🙂
Not just women who are
Not just women who are feeling the cycling confirming pressure. As a larger lad, I feel the stares. Some guys have decided to embrace it (call it largesse…) and cater for the bigger sizes: http://fatladattheback.com/. Maybe time for a female equivalent, as our favourite sport should not discriminate on any grounds (lard real red or otherwise).
All very good – most of it is
All very good – most of it is about not treating women as objects for your sexual gratification. However, that last one seems right out of order. I mean how unfriendly could a person possibly be? I offer advice on improving performance and diet to both genders and I’ve never had a complaint. The underwear issue is probably mentioned to avoid chafing but until now I hadn’t figured that a woman might be wearing underwear because of her time of the month. Don’t think I’ve ever looked long enough to notice anyway.
Anyway, put this in perspective – today I was shouted at for riding in the middle of the road (I was overtaking parked cars) and told I was a “f**king foreign c**t”. That last one was quite loud have given a statement to the Police. Owner of the vehicle is to be questioned regarding a possible offence under the Public Order Act (I obviously can’t go into more details)
Hang on a second – is this
Hang on a second – is this meant to be an article telling men how to treat women on bicycles? Seems like people are treating as such even though it isn’t said. If so, can we have an article about how women should treat men on bicycles? Let’s start with not being unfriendly…
hairyairey wrote:Hang on a
Here in the USA, I’ll often wave Hello to other cyclists going the opposite way. If it is a woman riding solo, a large majority won’t reciprocate and wave back, yet it changes to 50/50 possibility if they are riding with a man.
Applauds Aweebear
Applauds Aweebear =D>
Addressing #6… if you don’t
Addressing #6… if you don’t know you don’t know and somebody comes up and enlightens you, then you know and now know you didn’t know and what you know now might be handy.
Depends how it’s done, is all.
I reject no’6 because
a)
I reject no’6 because
a) people have dangerous cycling habits like cycling in the door zone, not shoulder-checking etc, and you could save their life by pointing this out.
b) so many cyclists cycle with their seat too low.
It may just be my thick skin,
It may just be my thick skin, but I can’t recall having being personally treated negatively because I’m female.
I may have once or twice in two years had something shouted at me out of a vehicle window, but everyone gets nutters like that now and again.
Shops, fine.
Club runs, if I get dropped, that’s due to a lack of fitness, not my sex. If anything, blokes seem to welcome having a woman along a lot of the time. Oh, apart from the lack of shelter I provide.
Last week on another forum, I pulled up a couple of blokes for taking the piss out of a photo of a rather large woman in bib tights, but a woman had also commented negatively, and they probably would’ve said similar had it been a man.
I often catch up with
I often catch up with cyclists with screeching chains and have been on the verge of offering chain oil a number of times. I thought I’d say, your chain is dry, it is wearing fast and pedalling is harder, here is some oil. Never mustered the courage. I am glad to find out it would have been a mistake.
Meanwhile, try searching
Meanwhile, try searching twitter for the hashtag #sportswomen – some of the questions posted for a Q&A with gymnast Beth Tweddle will make your toes curl, and reminds me that ultimately, while some may disagree on the points above, we are all actually trying to be civilised human beings.
notfastenough
God some of that was horrendous. We were having a big twitter debate on it yesterday.
I think there’s a very fine line between banter between mates (we all have a dig now and again) – out and out bullying and sexually harrassing a SPORTSperson, not even a celebrity for the sake of celebrity, like that is horrendous.
Someone in work today said “well is that not just freedom of speech?” – to which my answer was simply that these people would not say these things to these people in real life, these are men and women who in reality could be quite nice and normal, yet when presented with the shroud of the internet feel it necessary to objectify other human beings to the point that they can instill such bitter hatred towards them to the point of causing real distress and damage.
And it’s not necessarily the point that women are the only subject of this sort of harassment, but the behavior directed towards women does seem to have some trend of deeper, more personal angling. I think the point is that while women are simply humans too and we should all just take it with a pinch of salt, we’re built differently to men and our brains work in different ways. While we’d like to be as thick skinned as our male counterparts that sometimes just isn’t possible, we can read deeply and sensitively into what could be meant as passing jest and it can really, really affect us.
This isn’t meant to be a teeny tiny violin moment either. Say what you [not directed at anyone here] like behind peoples backs, that’s your own prerogative but please take a moment to think about what you’re about to say in public, and realise that there are always consequences to all actions.
I think the point on the knickers under shorts thing is that to a lady that is a VERY personal thing, while blokes are alright to lob it out for a waz at the side of the road, most women are incredibly sensitive to anything to do with the body and the idea that someone has actually spent time to look at their bottom to be able to make such a comment can come across in very much the wrong way. The idea of being looked at like that can make some girls feel immensely self conscious.
Banter/moral value – there IS a difference.
I’m not one for giving a toss but shits getting a bit much these days.
mooleur wrote:I think the
Sure, but there is also a difference between well meant advice that is just a bit too personal vs harassment. The problem I have with these kinds of articles is that usually no distinction is made between the two, even though they are obviously quite different (and people guilty of the one do not deserve the same response as people guilty of the other).
I also take issue with your rather sexist stereotyping of men as insensitive boors vs women as dainty little flowers. There are plenty of men who are sensitive and women with a very thick skin. Ultimately there is a (culturally determined) level of sensitivity that is too high, where a person can’t expect the world to adapt to that over-sensitivity. IMO, getting upset that people look at your bum on the bike is oversensitive, because it’s just what is right on front of you in a peloton. It’s natural for (tired) cyclists to focus on part of the rider in front of them. That can be a wheel, the rear brake, the bum or the shirt. That is not automatically sexual in nature.
It’s not a guy’s fault when his behavior is completely misinterpreted.
Aapje wrote:
Sure, but there
Whilst I agree that there should be some sort of distinction made in these articles between what is perceived as sexual harassment and innocent advice, my point is that an understanding and a level of empathy needs to be reached by all peers to adapt to accepting all genders into the peloton. Taking a step back before commenting on a girls underwear and processing the advice before giving it would be beneficial to all parties and stop this sort of misunderstanding from ever occurring. Your stance may be “well why should we have to” – we all make exceptions in life to accommodate for the different scenarios we encounter and accepting that males and females are different not just biologically but personally and intimately is not something that should be dismissed by equality. Put simply, yes – it sucks that these articles have to come to light, and yes we should all be able to just crack on and not be affected by these things but we all need to realise that is NOT the case and sometimes, unfortunately, this might mean eggshells – or just putting a bit of thought to a statement before giving it.
Could you please cite my alleged stereotyping of men? As I’d kept my statements fairly homogeneous in keeping with my standpoint on the subject.
As I’ve just said, we are ALL different – and to get along we need to interpret each and every personality, be it male or female, sensitive or not, in different ways.
Also as mentioned time and time again, I couldn’t give a rats arse if the guy or girl behind me is looking at my arse as long as he doesn’t clip my wheel and equally as long as he OR she doesn’t comment on said arse afterward – which happens *too much* and this is what this article is pointing out. The fact is that there is unfortunate majority of males both within the peloton and outside of it (generally around social media) who feel it necessary to objectify sportswomen and in turn be outspoken on their misinformed and blatantly sexist opinions is damaging not just to those who are sensitive but to sport itself.
This is not a “sexist” opinionated biased view on the matter, this is fact, you only need to watch twitter for an hour to discover this.
mooleur wrote: Your stance
I do think the guy’s advice was improper, primarily because it was not necessarily applicable to a woman. But I simply disagree with the notion that if a woman gets mentally scarred by a simple, non-sexual comment like this, she is perfectly normal, while the man is a horrible person.
The advice by the guy contains no judgement of the woman’s body. It’s not even a case of leering, given the realities of cycling. So then the only thing to be upset about is the entire notion that a man looks at a woman’s body, which is unavoidable in the absence of burka’s or the separation of sexes. So a woman with that much sensitivity is simply broken and should work on her own issues. She can’t expect men to cater to that silliness.
We don’t live in the Victorian era and it’s simply part of reality that men look at women’s bodies and women look at men. If you can only function by pretending that this isn’t true and get mental issues when that bubble is burst, then the issue is yours. The world isn’t going to adapt to the most prudish (and/or insane).
“we’re built differently to men and our brains work in different ways. While we’d like to be as thick skinned as our male counterparts that sometimes just isn’t possible, we can read deeply and sensitively into what could be meant as passing jest and it can really, really affect us.”
This seems pretty clear stereotyping to me. You claim that men are not as sensitive, while women are. It’s a classic stereotype and has been a key argument in the past when disallowing rights to women (because they ‘can’t handle X, due to their emotions’). Frankly, it’s a monumentally dumb argument to make if you stand for equality.
And now you make a completely different statement than the one I quoted. When you make conflicting statements, it is rather impossible for me to argue. So just let me state my position:
– There are comments that are clearly harassing, mean, etc. These are wrong and should be condemned.
– There are comments that are ill-advised, but made with good intent (or the intent is ambiguous). These should be treated with a gentle rebuke, assuming the best intent possible considering the comment. If someone overreacts to such a comment, that deserves a rebuke in itself.
– There are comments that are unwanted, but not wrong (in that context). An example is a come-on in a club by a person you are not attracted to. Handle it quickly and gently and move on.
– Men and women deserve the same respect. That goes both ways. No comments about women’s bodies when inappropriate, but also no mean comments at men that they ‘should take as a man.’
I had a look at the Twitter
I had a look at the Twitter posts about Beth Tweddle – it’s enough to put any woman off competing in sport.
Warriors behind keyboards,
Warriors behind keyboards, that’s the thing. I’d say that I’d like to be in the room when they say it, but I reckon if they were confronted with an angry-looking (but let’s be fair, not big & tough) Beth Tweddle, their insults would likely disappear up their own ar$es. It’s no different to road-rage – people say stuff from inside a tin box that they wouldn’t dare say up-close.
So, you’re basically
So, you’re basically “arguing” the same point as me, whilst still attempting to somehow point out that my comments were in some way sexist against men when all I was attempting to point out is WHY the girl may have taken the comments in the wrong way and also point out the fact that men and women are in fact NOT equal.
You clearly want an argument, I do not.
My only debate is to clarify the reasoning behind articles such as this and to give a clearer view of how it is for female sportswomen at the moment, as it may not be obvious to people who want to understand better the reasoning behind these debates.
This reminds me of a lady in
This reminds me of a lady in our team a few years back. She had a great attitude to the bike, was a great sprinter, but there was simply no way to avoid that she was significantly overweight.
Overweight in the terms of athletic performance and not ‘phwarrr’ appeal.
The said lady asked her male team mates what she could do to improve her performance and all she was told was to work on her Sprint and FTP.
Which was sound enough advice, but the reality is that losing the 15kg she was carrying would have taken her to national level.
Now, the question is…. Was it right for men to avoid the elephant in the room , or indeed was it sexist to avoid the subject? I remember toying over what was the right course of action for some time, before saying nothing.
The lady ultimately became frustrated by her lack of progression and sacked the racing off.
Jimmy Ray Will wrote:This
That pretty much gets to the nub of the issue, from my perspective. I dont know the answer.
Jimmy Ray Will wrote:This
Yes, IMO. Yes, she asked for advice but there are still boundaries concerning how personal that advice should be.
a) She is not a close friend,
b) The advice would be potentially humiliating given in front of a group of people who are not close friends.
c) She probably isn’t stupid and could work out for herself that losing excess fat would improve her athletic ability and efficiency.
So rather than state the obvious, I would have stuck to giving advice about technical details that she might be unaware of.
In my opinion, no. It would have been just as rude and patronising to tell an unknown lad that he would go faster if he lost 15kg, for the same three reasons above. You know he is fat. He knows he is fat and unless he is really stupid, he knows that he will go faster and have more stamina if he lost the excess weight.
If you were really determined to say something, maybe a general comment about how fitting lighter components to the bike could make a massive difference to performance? Then it is up to him/her if the penny drops and thinks about how personal weight loss might help too?
Jimmy Ray Will wrote:This
I’ve never met an overweight person who wasn’t aware they were overweight. Male or female, you pointing out their fatness makes you a bit of a knob, I’m afraid.
If you’re not sure you know someone well enough to discuss their weight with them, you don’t know them well enough.
“I’ve never met an overweight
“I’ve never met an overweight person who wasn’t aware they were overweight. Male or female, you
pointing out their fatness makes you a bit of a knob, I’m afraid. ”
Making weight a taboo subject is such a bad idea, it only makes it harder for anyone to talk to people with weight issues – some of whom may want to talk about it, or it may very much be to their benefit to talk about it. It should not be taboo.
Quote:Which was sound enough
Perhaps asking her what she felt was the correct direction to take.
Maybe talking about diet rather than weight directly would be more diplomatic.
Perhaps asking questions and listening to the answers in order to understand would have been beneficial.
As can be seen above, people get defensive and hurt when they don’t like the advice on offer.
Also, without being a pretty
Also, without being a pretty top level coach I’m not sure you could have known for sure that losing 15kg would have ‘taken her to national level’.
And your extreme level of fretting and concern about whether or not a woman who you clearly aren’t actually that friendly with became a better cyclist is frankly baffling.
Sarah Barth wrote:Also,
Well…
1) if she was already knocking on the door of national level, it wouldn’t be hard to work out.
2) If he’s involved with her (in a cycling sense), is it surprising he might think about how he could assist her? I wouldn’t characterise that as displaying ‘an extreme level of fretting and concern’.
Wow Sarah – how do you manage
Wow Sarah – how do you manage to be so hostile to men? Do you have to work at it? Is there a training course to go on?
Here’s an example of someone who had asked for advice on improving her performance so the question of losing extra weight was worth raising. Certainly in those circumstances I would have mentioned it and wouldn’t have been scared to – doesn’t mean I go round telling people they are fat.
Yeah like why don’t all these
Yeah like why don’t all these cyclists writing tips for websites and magazines just shut the hell up? What’s it got to do with any of you whether anyone enjoys or succeeds at cycling as much as possible? What are you, some sort of happy-clappy pinko altruists? :loll:
Is it OK to opine on road.cc, but not in person? I can see how that might be good for road.cc, but not for society.
“If you have some creepy
“If you have some creepy thing about tight Lycra, keep it to yourself, or look online for some like-minded weirdos to share it with instead.”
That’s a bit harsh isn’t it? Someone may well have a fetish for Lycra or whatever else they enjoy – does that entitle you to label them “creepy weirdo’s”?
Important article, but I’m
Important article, but I’m struggling a little bit with the sub-title ‘Top tips on how not to discourage even more women off the road and out of the sport’
‘not to discourage off’ – is it just me, or is that is bit confusing?
The eyes see what the eyes
The eyes see what the eyes see and the brain thinks what the brain thinks – it’s whether you then vocalise what the brain is thinking that determines how you are perceived and how the subject (male or female) is made to feel.
Some people look great in Lycra, some people don’t* it’s not anyone’s place to pass judgement on anothers body shape.
Cycling is about that – cycling, it’s there for all to enjoy regardless of gender, ability or aesthetics.
*I don’t.