Former round-the-world Guinness World Record holder and South West Cyclo-cross stalwart Vin Cox has resigned his membership of British Cycling after it emerged that former pro cyclist David Millar is working on a voluntary basis with its academy riders.
News that Millar was working with the youngsters at their new training base in Montechiara, Tuscany, was confirmed by the governing body this morning and given the two year ban for doping imposed on him in 2004 was always likely to prove controversial.
> British Cycling confirm David Millar mentoring GB academy riders
Cox, who circumnavigated the globe in 176 days in 2010, resigned from the organisation publicly in a message on Facebook to South West Cyclo-cross with which he has had a long association as a rider, administrator and race organiser.
He wrote: “With regret I have just resigned my membership of the corrupted British Cycling due to their appointment of renowned doper David Millar. Therefore I cannot serve on the South West Cyclo-cross Committee, or organise events next season. Good luck without me folks.”
He told road.cc:
On reading it [the news] I just thought no way am I wanting anything to do with it. They can employ who they like but they need to understand that some of their members may not agree to be part of an organisation if they choose to employ someone so controversial.
You can pick literally anyone who hadn’t been doping who would be a better ambassador. The argument for him is that he is a poacher turned gamekeeper and that he knows what it’s all about having been there but to go along with that to say it’s okay that he cheated and he had a career that his clean peers never had a chance because they never cheated.
I think it’s just wrong to have someone who was banned as a World Champion for cheating, who cost British Cycling money and credibility. He was a damage to sport at the time, he should be saying I was a damage to the sport at the time and I should be finding something else to do.
I don’t want any of my efforts or money to go towards his wages or to give him any credibility. I’m out of British Cycling, as long as he’s in.
I think cycling would be better rid of him than embracing him. He is a known cheat and I think that he shouldn’t be courted or given a role in cycling.
Nicole Cooke said he’s not an expert in doping, in any other sense than he knows how to do it. He had a big lapse of morals that other people seem to be able to keep hold of.
Some people think that because he says he came back clean he deserves another chance. I don’t see it that way.
While Millar’s role is voluntary at the moment, British Cycling has said that he may move into a formal role from the end of this month.
Great Britain Cycling Team technical director Shane Sutton said of Millar’s role: “Nurturing an anti-doping culture is at the heart of everything we do at British Cycling and educating our young riders on the subject is a responsibility we take seriously.
“Having someone of David’s calibre on board to support us in this education process is invaluable; he is readily available to share his well-rounded experiences as a professional cyclist to the young riders who aspire to succeed in their careers.”
Opinion among road.cc Facebook followers was split on the issue.
Ben Turp asked, “What? The guy who got caught doping? Yeah okay,” while Steven Edwards said, “Are you f****** kidding,” and Francis Longworth commented, “Lance unavailable.”
But James Asker wrote: “There will always be those who say why let an ex doper anywhere near our younger riders.
“That said having read about David and his rise and spectacular fall he is very well placed to advise younger riders on the risks to their health and careers.”
And Malc Wiggypig Hall said it was “Fantastic news, glad they are putting all that experience to good use. He can talk the talk and walk the walk. Unlike many keyboard experts here.”
Mick Chambers, meanwhile, noted: “Poacher turned gatekeeper, Why not, who knows more about the problems?”





















64 thoughts on “Vin Cox resigns from British Cycling over David Millar role”
Given the above photo,
Given the above photo, someone should give Vin Cox some guidance about how to fit his helmet.
amawby wrote:
He’s riding round the world, no f**ks given, not a single one.
Seems he has spat his dummy
Seems he has spat his dummy out.
One can only assume he has lived a life of never having made a mistake and never broken any laws. In todays society an individual who commits an offence, and is found guilty, takes their punishment and is allowed back into society to get on with their lives. Obviously Vin doesnt believe in forgiveness or that the ban David served was sufficient. He must believe dopers should be punished for eternity.
I’m with Vin. There are very
I’m with Vin. There are very many athletes better suited to the role of mentor to our youngsters.
mags wrote:
Who else with experiance of racing at the very top level is in the queue to work with our youngsters?
grahamTDF wrote:
Nicole Cooke comes to mind.
Still, I do get the “fight fire with fire” angle, other countries have top-level dopers training their athletes, why shouldn’t BC? The sooner young riders are exposed to the fundamental truth the better: cycle sport is entertainment to most fans. It’s all about the results and the stories you get to tell, not about how you got there. As long as you win and either don’t get caught or have a compelling damascene conversion scene to sell (you know, after you’re completely sure the lying and bullying didn’t work), all will be forgiven. Moreover, the sponsors, publishers and journalists will keep calling. If you didn’t win enought to play with the big boys, then you’re worthless.
Go stand in the corner with Stephen Swart and Christophe Bassons and the nameless thousands of other losers.
Carton wrote:
I don’t think Cook is queueing up for a job with British cycling. I’m not sure hearing about the chip on Cook’s shoulder would be of great help to the yougsters. And I don’t think Cook experianced anything quite like the mens world tour.
I know Miller can be annoying, but I believe his anti doping spiel is legit and he will be a good influence on the youngsters, that’s what matters, not some grudge that people can’t get over.
grahamTDF wrote:
That’s your prerogative. I’m not sold on it. I don’t think it is about some long lasting grudge, but then again no one is above bias. I’m not saying he can’t write and design clothes and sell them to whoever he likes. He’s paid his legal dues (always has, if you remember how he threathened to sue Paul Kimmage from the ouset). And I attach no ethical standards to being a good writer. If you’re good at it knock yourself out. I’m all for it. I’d just rather read about the guys that didn’t cheat than about those who did. YMMV.
Yep, but the slimmed obese person is a former sumo champion worth millions. Don’t do what I did, it really sucked eating all that nasty food. I mean know I’m slim and stylish and shilling for Maserati, but it was rough for a while, I really felt bad about myself for a couple of years. Meanwhile the guys who tried doing it while eating healthy are now in custodial services at Tesco, but never mind them, they never had it to begin with. When you like at my
selfpeers like Contador and Armstrong, diet wasn’t really all that important formytheir success. They were just better. But doping is bad, kids, don’t do it.When picking who to mentor kids, the ethical qualifications should far outweigh the sporting ones, IMHO. If you not only doped but the tried to lie and bully your way out of it when you were caught, then you’re not my guy for that job. But, again, YMMV.
Carton wrote:
I would object equally to her, although it would be less likely to garner support. She has repeatedly said that she was invited to dope but refuses to name names. Her silence makes her equally guilty or perpetuating doping in the sport.
kevinmorice]
Wait, what? This is the most ludicroust thing I’ve read on the internets since Ahmadinejad’s Columbia speech. I’m truly just as flabergasted as I was nine years ago. I mean…for christ’s sakes…just…what the…everloving…what?
Let’s apply this logic to our other usual debate topic at road.cc, traffic incidents. So anyone who has ever witnessed unsafe driving and not reported it is not only complicit in all road violence, but just as, I must repeat, just as guilty as the worst hit-and-run raged-out punishiment-doling hit-and-run-and -lie-about-it-afterwards no-license drunkard motorist?
Nicole Cooke may not always play nice, but I’ll take one of her over 20 Millars.
kevinmorice wrote:
Hi Kevin – I’m Nicole’s father. Perhaps you can identify quite where you sourced the information on what Nicole did and did not do ? You seem sure of your account. You must have heard it from soemwhere.
A lunatic might think that a clean rider might be quiet when they were offered drugs and then had their wages stopped by their team. That is what had happened to her. Nicole was not quiet. She made inquiries on how to progress her information in Italy and she together with myself opted for informing the organisation that was the predecessor of UK AD which was called “Drug Free Sport” and it was part of UK Sport. I travelled to London to represent Nicole (she was riding in Italy) and the information she had. There I met with the Director and a minute taker for him. I did not hold back on any information. I was informed that there was nothing Drug Free Sport could do. Cycling at that time, 2002, had not signed up to the WADA code and so activity in Italy provided no collective reference point to an overarching body. Further, the team Nicole rode for was not resistered in Italy, even though it based itself there and as such the Italian anti doping agency had no powers whatsoever to conduct action against it apart from when enegaged in actual competitions in Italy. Given the workload of the Italian Federation dealing with matters within its own jurisdiction – it was at that time, in the view of the UK Director, overloaded, there would be nothing they could do and so he had no intention of passing any information to the Italian anti-doping agency. The Director thought it even more unlikely that an appeal to the anti-doping agency of the country of registration of the team would ellicit any action and again he was not going to attempt to communicate. As I stated to Nicole on my return, nothing in sport had disapppointed me more than the reception her informatin receved at that time.
What neither Nicole or Drug Free Sport were aware of was that the Italian Police were engaged in robust activity including tapping the phone of the the gentleman in question. Later that year they made their move and 27 were caught up in their net including 6 male and 3 female riders. That particualr doping ring was broken. None of the sporting bodies contribbuted one iota to that achievement.
Nicole was 19 at the time of all this.
Throughout her caree Nicole paid a heavy price for speaking out. again and again You might care to read about the events of those times and take an opion of how others, engaged in doping practises might view her.
She is happy to walk away with her head held high.
What I and her modest band of supporters find gauling is that having paid the price once for her determined stand, now others, mis-informed and mis-guided seek to heap more injury on her.
Rather than amplfy nonesense, can I suggest that anyone who wants to find out more about Nicole’s career might borrow her book from the library. Chapter 22 “exposing the drug cheats” would be useful in this context. Sadly the legal department of the publishers were cautious about this section and as published, I believe it is about 1/4 of what she wrote in draft form. However I think it will give you most of what you need to know
As to whether David Millar might be the best individual to cousel youngsters about the inequities of PED use, we might all have opinions. Only one opinion really counts, that of Shane Sutton and he clearly thinks David is the best person for the job.
Tony
Super Vin, man with honor.
Super Vin, man with honor.
Would you let a child abuser work in a school?
mylesrants wrote:
You really think they are anything at all like each other? Seriously? For real? Do you actually for real seriously think there is any similarity at all there?
mylesrants wrote:
What an utterly immaterial comparison.
mylesrants wrote:
So you equate someone who took some drugs and never physically harmed anyone with a person that sexually molests children? You are a truly stupid person who has no sense of perspective.
He must think he’s really
He must think he’s really important.
gazzaputt wrote:
Ignorance is bliss!
gazzaputt wrote:
Agreed, mainly based on “good luck without me folks” and the way he’s gone about it, rather than the principle itself…
Being open with kids about
Being open with kids about the highs and lows of drug-abuse (whether that’s EPO or heroin) is better than simply not talking about it and pretending the problem doesn’t exist. It’s also much better having an authentic anti-drug messages coming from the likes of Millar than some Nancy Reagan like figure which is what happens all too often. Let him get on with doing some good – train the kids and keep pushing (?) the anti-dope message.
dafyddp wrote:
I remember Nancy at her peak in the 1947 50-mile British time trial championships. What a ride; she fair flew round the course, smelling of Chanel No5, her woollen shorts balooning in the wind and her hair gradually unwinding from the pink rollers. When she flatted in the last mile everyone thought she was a goner, but after injecting a little spittle into the valve as a sealant she inflated the tub with only the power of her lungs and sped to overall victory.
You couldn’t make it up.
mike the bike wrote:
I remember Nancy at her peak in the 1947 50-mile British time trial championships. What a ride; she fair flew round the course, smelling of Chanel No5, her woollen shorts balooning in the wind and her hair gradually unwinding from the pink rollers. When she flatted in the last mile everyone thought she was a goner, but after injecting a little spittle into the valve as a sealant she inflated the tub with only the power of her lungs and sped to overall victory.
You couldn’t make it up.— dafyddp
Yeah and that time she solved that mystery with the sheepdog and the Hardy Boys n’that, no dope there either!
People also gave up their BC
People also gave up their BC membership when Chain Reaction upped their 10% discount to orders over £100. Like Vin, they too were bell ends.
Bigringrider wrote:
Classic and very funny!
It’s widely accepted that one
It’s widely accepted that one of the biggest contributary factors to the doping culture in cycling has always been the reluctance of anyone within the sport to talk about it, and Millar is one of the few who doesn’t hide from it, can talk about it with some first hand knowledge of how people get sucked into it.
Like it or not cycling still needs to tackle doping, and some of these kids will be offered PEDs, and quite possibly be pressured into taking them to improve their results, and someone who has seen that from the inside is surely the only person who can directly relate to the situation.
I agree with the point raised above regarding having served his suspension too. If you don’t like the level of punishment, don’t take it up with the person receiving that punishment, he had no control over it, take it up with those dishing it out, but the point is that his punishment has been served, and since then Millar has been one of the most outspoken critics of doping, which is something cycling has traditionally been very short on.
I essence British Cycling can do what cycling has done for as long as anyone can remember, and pretend doping doesn’t happen, or they can try and learn about it in a “know your enemy” kind of way, and the best way to do that as far as I (and by the looks of thing British Cycling) can see is to communicate with those who have first hand experience of those situations, and those people, by their very nature, have black marks on their record.
Knee jerk reaction is that
Knee jerk reaction is that the appointment isn’t great, however…
I guess, if Millar is doing the mentoring role for the right reasons (seems like he’s fueled his PR machine ‘a lot’ over the past couple of years) and not just doing the role to blow even more smoke up his own incredibly smokey arse (that doesn’t sound right), then it’s a good role for him, in the same way ex-addicts go round schools teaching them from their own experience.
But it does irk that he’s getting so much press coverage at the moment for his own commercial endevours that, this does smack of a temporary position to bolster his position, he was on radio four in rush hour the other day for about 15mins, that’s not normal for cycling. Maybe it’s the other way around, maybe BC is using Millar to fuel their own PR machine to raise cycling awareness – boost BC memberships?
peted76]
Change your newspaper/retune your radio. You won’t die.
All businesses rely on publicity, whether it’s a PR piece in the local paper or magazine reviewers sucking up to bike manufacturers, his is just another brand. Look at bank adverts, what absolutely tosh – taking their pound of flesh while making you feel all luvvy-duvvy about horses. Or supermarkets pretending they exist solely for your benefit when in fact they’re blatantly screwing every single supplier, employee and customer. Perfume and shampoo ads – pretending that you’ll be more attractive if you bathe in petrochemicals and stink of synthetic odorants.
Simon E wrote:
Change your newspaper/retune your radio. You won’t die.
All businesses rely on publicity, whether it’s a PR piece in the local paper or magazine reviewers sucking up to bike manufacturers, his is just another brand. Look at bank adverts, what absolutely tosh – taking their pound of flesh while making you feel all luvvy-duvvy about horses. Or supermarkets pretending they exist solely for your benefit when in fact they’re blatantly screwing every single supplier, employee and customer. Perfume and shampoo ads – pretending that you’ll be more attractive if you bathe in petrochemicals and stink of synthetic odorants.
— peted76
So because all businesses are out to sell us their products, Millar’s particular brand of righteousness must be swallowed whole?
Say that’s a pretty lofty strawman you got there: be a shame for, uh, anyting hot to get near it, capisce?
davel wrote:
Ha ha, this is a wind-up, right?
No?
Nothing of Millar’s need to be “swallowed” any more than anyone else’s. But feel free to make up whatever you want since it seems you failed to (or chose not to) understand my post.
Simon E wrote:
Ha ha, this is a wind-up, right?
No?
Nothing of Millar’s need to be “swallowed” any more than anyone else’s. But feel free to make up whatever you want since it seems you failed to (or chose not to) understand my post.— davel
People sell stuff? Is that it? Or did you just want to rant about irrelevant ads you don’t like?
Either you take a zero
Either you take a zero tolerance stance to doping, or you don’t.
From what I see all the cycling organizations don’t.
I’m sure this chap has
I’m sure this chap has contributed a lot to the sport over the years, and although I don’t agree with his stance on this, I can appreciate his position. But: “Good luck without me folks”, really?
Needs to get over himself…
PaulBox wrote:
He was, I imagine, writing for a fairly small audience on a specialist site consisting mainly of people who know him, not for a mass market publication like road.cc who has picked up on it.
And if people think that long-standing regular grass roots race organisers don’t matter to the sport or to BC as a membership-based organisation as much as, if not more than, an assistant coach for second-line national teams, then they need their heads examining.
Albert Herring wrote:
It doesn’t matter who he was writing to, even if it was just his wife, it still sounds like his head is wedged up his own arse.
I was trying to acknowledge that he has probably contributed a lot over the years and in no way tried to downplay the importance of that. However, I still don’t think he should throw his dummy out of the pram just because somebody does something he doesn’t agree with. It completely undermines his position, far better to stay within the organisation and try to influence others.
I like the way some people
I like the way some people think we can go from prevalent doping to no doping without a transition.
I see this as part of said transition however painful.
So Vin wouldn’t allow the
So Vin wouldn’t allow the following in a teaching environment…
An ex-smoker to warn of the dangers of smoking
A slimmed obese person to talk about the importance of healthy eating
A reformed drinker lecture of the dangers of addiction
No, because they could actually tell you like it is and where that path leads…
Vin knows best does he?
A cracking appointment.
A cracking appointment.
As the saying goes “been there, done that and got the t-shirt”. Millar can show the massive error of taking drugs and point out how you can succeed without them. I hope he is a massive success.
Withdrawing financial and
Withdrawing financial and resource support for British Cycling when Millar is only acting in a voluntary capacity seems especially petty.
I’d rather a well known
I’d rather a well known remorseful ex doper advised my kids on the perils of drugs than a none doper I’ve never heard of.
I assume Vin switches off Eurosport when Kelly is commentating? After all. Surely doping is doping – regardless of the dates?
WolfieSmith wrote:
Yep, hence my first post. Which was really about cycling culture, before I got a particularly harsh on Dave on my second post for taking advantage of it. Frustration gets the better of me sometimes. I’ve yet to learn how to stop worrying and love them dopers.
If Cooke’s unwilling, how about one of the GCN boys, then? They seem fairly popular.
Also, I support Mr. Cox in taking a stand for what he believes in.
Carton wrote:
because this new BC training camp is based in Northern Italy…so it would involve commiting to being over there at the same time, which is quite an ask if for a “voluntary” role when you main income is generated in the UK…whereas Millar can probably just hop on his bike and get there (he still lives in Italy right ?)
Quote:
Probably best not seek his advice on where best to hide your stash. He was crap at that.
UK cycling chosing the ‘cool
UK cycling chosing the ‘cool runnings’ approach of hiring an ex cheat to do the job. Made for a great movie but not real life-we do not need cheats in cycling, keep them out of the sport alltogether. Everyone makes mistakes but not of this magnitude.
You have to admire him for
You have to admire him for sticking by his principles. I think cycling would likely be a cleaner sport if no one involved in doping was involved in the running of it.
In fact it seems no team is without their EPO era rider these days. You can talk about experience, but experience of what?
Resigning on point of
Resigning on point of principle, without fanfare, is fine. Making a song and dance about it indicates a rather high opinion of himself.
Millar hasn’t a shred of
Millar hasn’t a shred of remorse. The appointment of him as an advisor, or mentor to neophyte young pros is irrational. His own account of his doping, as widely published in his book ‘Racing Through The Dark’, seeks to blame the culture surrounding him, his lack of a support network, and the tired excuse trotted out by every unremorseful cheat of having no other choice but to join the rest of the cheaters if he wanted to win. Millar was young, naïve and brash. He beleived his own hype and when it all came crashing down he saw himself as the victim. Millar is all about Millar, and I abhor his selection as a mentor.
The poacher turned gamekeeper argument is a fallacy. To think that clean professional athletes don’t know what doping products are, or their potential affects is inane. Wake up. Clean professional athletes know exactly what advantages their competitors may be gaining by using different drugs, but they have the moral fortitude to chose a different path.
Read http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jan/14/nicole-cooke-retirement-statement
Millar can shill all the crap, stylised riding gear he likes. Hincapie, et al, the same. The recent case of Gabriel Evans showed more courage in admitting that he alone was responsible for his actions than this phalanx of professional cheats.
dannycarr2k wrote:
How do you know this? How could you know this? Spent a lot of time with him have you? Know him better than the guys at British Cycling?
You think these things are irrelevant? And I have heard him talk about personal responsibility.
The p***ing contest over who hates ex dopers the most is boring.
There seems to be an
Can you prove this?
I read it differently. He gave into a temptation that he resisted for longer than most. He’s definitely not the first nor will he be the last. Is his apparent self-absorption really so shocking or offensive? Do all those who are driven to cheat offend you so much? What about City bankers, CEOs of large corporations, corrupt lawyers or dodgy builders?
I generally agree that the reformed alcoholic’s testimony is more powerful than a thousand sermons from a self-righteous tee-totaller but this has prompted me revisit that idea. However, Sutton states that those clean athletes would benefit from his vast experience of racing, not his more limited experience of doping 12 or more years ago.
Gabriel only spilled because otherwise he was going to get shopped. The ‘confession’ he posted was IMHO too carefully worded to be described as a genuine apology (and edited more than once after posting). I’d certainly not cite an 18 year old who injected EPO because he didn’t like being beaten as a good example.
I also would not lump Millar and Hincapie together. Whatever you think of him (is being stylish a crime too?), Millar has copped a great deal of highly personal abuse since his ban, more than any doped cyclist (possibly including Armstrong. I don’t know). Does he really deserve it? Honestly? Put his crime into perspective: he didn’t sexually abuse children, he hasn’t killed anyone – he cheated at sport, along with most of his contemporaries. He is abused far more for admitting his mistakes and subsequently working for clean sport than all the other dopers put together. Should he have keep quiet and resumed doping after his ban?
Very few people wonder what it’s like to make the same kind of mistake and live with it, privately and publicly. Most are too busy throwing stones to ask that question, too full of self-righteous anger at someone who took drugs so he could ride a bike a bit faster than the others, who were mostly taking the same drugs.
Slagging him off for the Maserati, his poncy clothing line etc – none of which is relevant – suggest you simply have a huge chip on your shoulder.
In the end the team at BC are far better qualified than ‘internet forum people’ who have zero experience of high level racing or working with Millar. So all the haters are going to have live with it or go elsewhere. In which case, good luck finding a clean professional sport to follow.
I don’t necessarily agree with Vin Cox but respect the fact that he has strong views on this topic. Some of the crap on this thread is truly pathetic.
How would people feel if it
How would people feel if it was Lance armstrong, dopers are dopers right? wether successful or not, i question if we forgive people then do we do it for all or choose who we want to let back in to the fold if they pay lip service or pass a remorse test?
Maybe we should just accept it happens in all sport now and regulate doping to make it as safe as possible?
i really dont know but wonder what others think?
Beefy wrote:
Fair questions – I’m on the fence about Millar, being equally swayed by the pros and cons.
An aggravating factor with Armstrong, and what turns people off especially, is that he impacted others’ careers and enhanced his own off the back of his bullying to protect the omerta which benefitted him so much. I think more people would be up for a bit of forgiveness if he didn’t consistently act like a psycho.
On the last question: I’m assuming you mean doping as in PEDs. But dopers aren’t precious about drugs. What made Ben Johnson inject steroids wasn’t just that he loved to juice and lift big weights, and happened to be OK with the 100m-winning side-effects. Tyler Hamilton didn’t just love having other people’s blood in him. And who knows – it might just turn out that Femke van den Driessche (or her mate) hasn’t got a predeliction for riding motor-powered bikes but actually had the motor installed for something naughty.
What they’re all driven by is seeking an unfair advantage. Even without regulating the PEDs on offer, certain people involved in cycling are showing innovative ways of being cheaty bastards. Regulate PEDs and then where do they go for their unfair advantage? They’re already finding other ways… blood transfusions, motors in bikes… it’ll be a race to turn sport into something that isn’t sport. That’s why ‘they’re all doing it’ is not an excuse.
I remember Millar being
I remember Millar being outspoken on drug use at the time , in fact he took every opportunity to criticize all other cheats to the cycling press as would listen at the same time as he injected EPO up his own arse. He’s a lying hypocitical cheat. So I’m with Vin I’m also going to cancel my membership to B.C.
1tal wrote:
I bet you don’t even have a BC membership you big drama queen.
Bigringrider wrote:
I’ve been a member of BC for longer than Millars been doping.
1tal wrote:
So that’s approx. 2 years then?
Bigringrider wrote:
2004 is that not 12 years, I think you must be on drugs as well.
1tal wrote:
Get a room you two.
@ Carton.
@ Carton.
Great analogy, straight from the same bag as the ones above who compare peadophiles to dopers.
Cooke repeatedly came out and said she had been offered drugs and even gives a specific example of a team that offered her a contract conditional on doping, yet she won’t even name that team. That makes her complicit.
Strikes me as a foolish
Strikes me as a foolish decision by BC. Irrespective of merits of Millar’s appointment (I am sceptical), cost in terms of disillusioned members (Cox won’t be alone) will be significant. There is no way that Millar can bring a countervailing benefit. Which idiot didn’t foresee this?
Can see both sides of this
Can see both sides of this argument to be fair, Vin is well within his rights to complain about Millar being part of the problem during the dark days of cycling.
Millar realised too late that instead of going against the peloton and speaking out, that he just got fed up and depressed being nowhere “Pain et Eau” and paid his price accordingly.
Saying that he has always been more than remorseful on his return and has always accepted and spoke out against doping in sport and I think that he would be ideal and a safe pair of hands to the new generation, because he has actually experienced the dark side of cycling and wants to give back to the organisation he once shamed.
Can see both sides of this
Can see both sides of this argument to be fair, Vin is well within his rights to complain about Millar being part of the problem during the dark days of cycling.
Millar realised too late that instead of going against the peloton and speaking out, that he just got fed up and depressed being nowhere “Pain et Eau” and paid his price accordingly.
Saying that he has always been more than remorseful on his return and has always accepted and spoke out against doping in sport and I think that he would be ideal and a safe pair of hands to the new generation, because he has actually experienced the dark side of cycling and wants to give back to the organisation he once shamed.
kevinmorice wrote:
Thank you. Coming from you I’ll take that as a compliment.
Would like to point out for any kids out there that might be reading it wasn’t a analogy. I was taking a truly beautiful legal concept and applying it wholesale to motor vehicle incidents. Also, that criminal systems treat all crimes fairly equally (the burden of proof is the only thing changes), when it comes to the prosecution of crimes. You can freely talk about how evidence is being presented or arguments are being made without comparing the actual defendants. If other people can’t that’s not on you.
But thank you Kevin, honestly. Re-reading the comments I came upon the breathtaking intelectual consistency on display.
This one I’ll just grab verbatim at some point. Don’t worry, feel free to still think it’s an analogy. 16 likes; An almost consensus view.
Several of the culture ones were also great. I’ll be saving one for later.
Yep, that’s the real problem here. And the real victims are the multimillionaire dopers an their starstruck fans who are getting absolutely shelled by a scattering of people (clearly a tiny minority in this forum) saying that they might not be ideally suited to mentoring kids. Poor guys and gals. Wasn’t it enough that were forced into doping by all the Moncoutiés, Hushovds and Matt Cookes who didn’t speak up?
Carton wrote:
How many men and women have doped accross all sports do you rekon? Thousands? 10’s of thousands? 100’s of thousands by now? You want ot just bury your head in the sand, write them off as bad egg’s and spout a load of holier than though garbage or do you want to learn from them to create a culture where it is less likely to happen again?
grahamTDF wrote:
Any estimate would of course be wild speculation, but I would reckon it may hardly get into the tens of thousands, let alone hundreds of thousands. I’m not advocating for zero tolerance everywhere, discard all dopers altogether. Do let some of them in, particularly to consult on things they’re experienced in that are still relevant. But the last thing I would do with former caught dopers is position them as mentors for young riders. Because we’re far better off making sure the clean riders are held up as role models rather than the dopers, reformed or not.
It is my firm belief that clean riders should get the hole shot for any opportunity in cycling, particularly within organizations such as BC. I don’t think a former WorldTour doper makes for a bad equipment manager, but I’d try to make sure that a purportedly clean former continental racer who is capable of growing into the role is offered the chance first. Sure, you’ll get an occasional doper who was never caught, but there are plenty of actually clean athletes. Burying your head in the sand and pretending everyone dopes is even worse that pretending no one does.
You don’t see how writing off clean riders as “holier than though garbage sellers” is actively hurting instead of helping things? Dope with the latest and greatest undetectable drug, become “great”, worst case you’ll fall back here in your Maseratti, decked-out with your own clothing line and sponsored shades, as Plan C. You’ll have name recognition, so you’ll matter. The rest of the “holier than though garbage sellers” will be dismissed as equally complicit by the vast majority of the public anyway. Nobody will know their names, in any case. They won’t find jobs in cycling as they won’t have the requisite “high level experience”. Writing off non-dopers is a brutally terrible example, and one cycling has been following for decades.
Ah, David Millar, the staunch
Ah, David Millar, the staunch anit-doping advocate, who, in his own words “didn’t have time” to talk to the CIRC report…in his retirement year, no less. Alas, there was probably some Maserati royalties to be made – priorities an’ all that.
Bar Lance, you’ll be hard pushed to find another more self-entitled figure in the cycling ranks.
Good on you for sticking by your principles Vin!
Thank you Tony, thank
Thank you Tony. At least there’s at least one level-headed and informed response to the lynch mob.
I have read Nicole’s book. I can see that she didn’t have an easy time and her strong views weren’t always well received. A less determined rider would have surely given up or perhaps even given in to temptation.