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Looking to modernize/upgrade my 20 years old tourer

Need advice on upgrading my 2002 Roberts Roughstuff

 

It's a bit of a frankenbike, but I love it. Picture link below. Campag ergo levers on drop bars with 9s rear racing t, and racing t front. Schmidt dynamo front, xt rear on 26" Mavic rims, avid shorty cantis. I've a compact 3x sugino crank on a Shimano BB. Cassette a Shimano 11-28 and 9sp chain. Campag seat post. I've done thousands of miles on it the last 20 years. Never a buckle, never a problem. I did stick a new BB in and grease the xt rear hub a couple of years ago at the same time I replaced the old Shimano cantis from my long gone Dawes galaxy with the avid shorty pair. The Schmidt has never been touched...which is remiss of me.. it's the older beer barrel one. 

 

Here's the thing.. I'm getting older and planning a long long trip. I'd much prefer to move to a 2x11 setup for support, weight and modernity 🤣 I wouldn't be happy in a remote place with broken ergo levers. I know my wheels are close to retirement too.

 

 Shimano 105 appeals and a lot of "randonneur" type tourers use that. Unfortunately my frame doesn't have disk brake mounts so they're out as I don't like the look of these adapter clamps.. can you advise different? If I'm told they are reliable then great.. I intend to invest in new wheels anyway: then the 105 set has all I need. I quoted "randonneur" as most are more than suited to 4xpannier heavy touring. 

 

Assuming I can't move to disk brakes, I'd love to move to Shimano brifters on my drop bars but I'm getting lost in the amount of combinations. Can I use a 105 combo and retain my avid cantis using a pair of Shimano brifters? Or will I need separate thumb controls for the derailleurs and dedicated drop bar canti levers for the brakes? I'm truly lost in the different things that come up courtesy of net search.

 

When I start to look at the costs I also wonder if it's just a better idea to jump in with a new bike ..many from the vsf company appeal. But this frame is something I treasure and I'd love to keep it in service for my lifetime at least...alas Roberts is now no more.

 

So, is there anyway to use 105 2x11 set with cantis using Shimano drop bar brifters?  

 

Or any other advice? All welcome.  

 

Can budget (with wheels + son) about 1500 Euro, 2k at a push. 

 

[Roberts Roughstuff ](https://i.imgur.com/2RbGmIf.jpg)

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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18 comments

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dabba | 1 year ago
1 like

It's good to do this sort of thing. About 10 years ago I did a bit of upgrading on my then 20ish y/o Trek 520 tourer. I got a disk fork for it because I wanted some decent stopping power for the loaded downhills. I used Avid cable disk brakes on the front and left the cantis on the back. Great bike made better! It convinced me that an all disk tourer was the way to go so I built up a titanium Lynskey disk Backroad tourer, and it's a nice loaded ride that I recently upgraded with Spyre cable disk brakes. The Trek languished for a while, but about 5 years ago I put a Bafang mid drive conversion kit onto it. Now it's got another new life as my go-to ebike when I'm a bit weary but still want to ride. The frame is the only thing remaining from the original 1994 purchase. All other bits have been upgraded or replaced as needed over the course of its 100,000kms life.

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Robert m | 1 year ago
0 likes

I also converted / upgraded my 36 year old steel tourer (Koga Miyata Radonneur) to a more modern gear set up and a wider gear ratio.  

The original setup was 2x6 speed Shimano Golden Arrow, the predessor of 105 with a freehub cassette with down tube shifters fro front and rear

However I also changed from drop handlebars to flat bars and that enable me to use a much wider range of components from moutain bike range.  

A) New rear wheel with Shimano cassette mount 11 speed

B) Rear Deraileur:   I used Shimano Deore 11 speed with long cage and a 11 to 36 cassette and a Deore flat bar shifter.  ( I already had tekto brakle levers which I used)    If you want to go a bit further you could also get Deore Brake levers and a direct mounted shifter for the cleanest set up.  

C) I kept the original front deraileur and the down tube shifter for it since I do not change the front chain ring often.  If you go for the deore brake levers you can then also get the shiting for the front deraileur on the handle bar and get rid of the remaining downtube shifter.  

 D) I got myself a "cable" end stop for the gear housing guide and located it near the location where the down tube shifter was for the rear deraileur. 

E) I changed to dual pivot rim brakes (Tektro R359 long drop) 

F) Final change was to go to smaller chain rings on the from from 52/36  to 50/34

I ride this bike on long 100 mile tours and it is a real pleasure   

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rileyrg | 1 year ago
8 likes

So upgrade complete. I went for the 10s tiagra with a triple Shimano front set.  Octalink BB with the crank. Ordered two new wheels while at it from kurbelix here in Germany.  Thank you all for advice. The shifting is night and day compared to my old worn frankenbike. Completed component price about 400 not including the 26" DT swiss 36 SS spoke wheels with a son 28 on the front. 

I love it. I think my thoughts of buying a new gravel/tourer are now well and truly put to rest.

 

 

 

 

 

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Woldsman replied to rileyrg | 1 year ago
2 likes

rileyrg wrote:

So upgrade complete. I went for the 10s tiagra with a triple Shimano front set...

Good stuff.  Hope you get many miles and years of enjoyment out of your bike. 

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rileyrg replied to rileyrg | 1 year ago
7 likes

I couldn't hack the Shimano crank. Spa cycles td 2 touring 3x.  TA chainrings. Beautiful.

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Creakingcrank | 1 year ago
5 likes

I'm as guilty as anyone else of upgrading things for the sake of it, but if this lovely bike was mine, and everything is working OK at the moment, I would not do such a big upgrade. 9 speed parts are strong and relliable, there is nothing wrong with triple chainsets, brifters don't break very often, and upgrading to 105 won't save much (any?) weight.

Why not just rebuild the wheels with new rims and strong, single butted spokes? Probably replace the cassette and chain too. 

If you are worried about gear failures in remote places, you could buy a pair of down tube friction levers and stick them in your tool kit as an emergency backup - ~50g and the frame looks like it has braze ons for those already. Then you can use the €1500 you saved to extend your trip. I'm jealous!

Or, if determined to modernise, Shimano Tiagra is available with cable levers and would operate cantis. It is 10 speed not 11, but that is probably an advantage for touring. You could even keep the triple chainset as there is a Tiagra 3x shifter. 

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Backladder replied to Creakingcrank | 1 year ago
1 like

Another vote for trying to keep it original but if you feel like you have to upgrade then to my mind the old brakes are a worse liability than the gears, on a steel frame you could have a disk brake mount welded on and swap the fork for a disk fork, you may have to cold set the rear triangle out to 135mm depending on what it currently is but I've had this done on an old tandem frame and it works brilliantly.

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rileyrg replied to Creakingcrank | 1 year ago
0 likes

The tiagra ten speed sounds an option.  I could use those levers with any long cage Shimano 10sp derailleur?  Excuse my lack of knowledge... I've read so much, I've got lost 🙄

10sp would be fine.

Im thinking those tiagra brifters, I couldn't see any xt ones , and xt 10sp rear and 3x front, classics, over the cheaper tiagra derailleurs. Your thoughts? 

 

Btw my current chainset is compact 3x with a 26 inner ring.

 

 

 

 

 

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Creakingcrank replied to rileyrg | 1 year ago
3 likes

Component compatibility between Shimano road and MTB groupsets is complicated and confusing. This site has a pretty good explanation (and that's still confusing). If I'm interpreting it correctly. Shimano Tiagra is "odd" among Shimano 10 speed road groupsets and is only compatible with Itself, or with other 11 speed road deraileurs. Current 105 and up is all 12 speed, but previous gen 11 speed models might still be avaialble. 

Easiest solution is go for Tiagra for Everything. I don't think you will suffer in any way from doing this. I don't have any direct experience with that groupset, but have used the equivalent-price-level Deore MTB stuff on various bikes and it has all worked well and lasted a long time. The long-cage Tiagra mech will have enough capacity to handle your triple and up to a 32t rear sprocket. 26/32 on 26inch wheels is a good low climbing gear for laden trips!

 

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rileyrg replied to Creakingcrank | 1 year ago
1 like

Very informative. Thank you.

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Dnnnnnn replied to Creakingcrank | 1 year ago
2 likes

Possibly just about worth noting that the "odd" Tiagra is only the latest 4700 series stuff - earlier Tiagra worked fine with 6-9 speed derailleurs and the 10 speed versions of older 105 and Ultegra. But as I guess you'd be buying new kit, it'll be the "odd" 4700 series stuff...

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rileyrg replied to Dnnnnnn | 1 year ago
0 likes

I'm now edging towards keeping 10sp (I can get new wheels later)  and my sugino 3x crank. And full 2016 tiagra seems the way. 

So...

Rear derailleur: https://www.rosebikes.de/shimano-tiagra-rd-4700-gs-schaltwerk-2016--8122...

front: https://www.rosebikes.de/shimano-tiagra-fd-4703-b-umwerfer-2016--812181?...

 

With these shifters which should also manage my cantis: https://www.rosebikes.de/shimano-tiagra-st-4703-brems-schalthebelkombina...

 

This seems to be a good way forward albeit not going to 2x11 which was a stated aim.. but I like my crankset and this seems a bit truer to the frame legacy.

 

Again, thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ktache replied to rileyrg | 1 year ago
2 likes

There are ceramic and carbide rims out there , provided you can get compatible pads for your cantis, that will massively improve your stopping power and extend the life of the rims.

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rileyrg replied to ktache | 1 year ago
0 likes

I've never had a stopping problem even loaded. I tend to clear the rims with gentle pulses in rain and fog and consider myself a situationally aware rider .. as well as keeping them properly adjusted. These rims are 20 years old but definitely time to renew. I'll make a note of your suggestion.

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Creakingcrank replied to rileyrg | 1 year ago
0 likes

My German is less than rudimentary, and Rose doesn't want to share those pages in English due to that event that happened in 2016. But those look like the right parts. Exciting! good luck with it.

Where is the planned trip?

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rileyrg replied to Creakingcrank | 1 year ago
2 likes

[quote=Creakingcran

Where is the planned trip?

[/quote]

To be decided. I've been off my bike the past 2.5 years... Grr. But my first decent one will be Hamburg to Schwangau.... I'm obsessed with Wagner/Ludwig and the fairytale Neuschwanstein🤣 That'll test my knees.

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rileyrg replied to Creakingcrank | 1 year ago
5 likes

So,I've taken the plunge. With the discount on old stock I got the rd long cage, fd, cassette, chain and pair of sti levers for... 273 euro. This is cheap enough to add a bit of value if I decide to go the new bike route later and sell my Roberts on. I can probably recoup it all anyway by ebaying the Campag components I'm putting out to grass. 

Exciting times.

 

 

 

 

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Creakingcrank replied to rileyrg | 1 year ago
2 likes

Awesome. I bet that will be an amazing trip. Please come back here and post photos of your bike leaning against fairytale stuff in due course!

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