Manufacturers return to rim brakes

NOtotheEU wrote:

Brother Cycles is about to launch a new drop bar gravel bike with rim brakes so maybe they aren't quite dead yet. "The Mr Wooden uses cantilever brakes. Brother says speccing rim brakes enables it to use lighter-weight tubing compared to the heavier tubes required to resist the forces of disc brakes. This results in a more comfortable, flexible and fast ride feel." I'll leave you lot to argue about the last part of the quote 😉

Translation:- you won't be able to stop as quickly and you'll be going faster in the first place.

I don't think they are dead, I agree. Would beinteresting to see the new gravel bike. I'm kinda exited!

Rim brakes with alloy rims are still my top choice if you want an easy to maintain and simple to setup bike configuration. No need to bleed, align and sort out rotor rub. Just set and forget. If you need a commuter bike, I'd reccomend rim brake, and not disk brake. Cheap and affordable price.

The only rim brake bikes I would stay away from are delta brakes, bottom braket brakes and many carbon rims in wet weather (possibly some are pretty good but I don't really know much about carbon rim brake). Other than that they are fun!

Rim brakes fade, as many an inexperienced coast to coast rider will tell you. rims also can overheat, leading to exploding tyres, tyre failure etc. The reason Shimano introduced fins on some pads is for the very issue, heat dissipation is a well understood issue and each manufacturer has solutions.

It is not a one way street of advantages and disadvantages.

As you note, someone at 16 stone is around the design limit of many bicycles, so it is not surprising that you are pushing the limits of braking capacity of a stock spec. bike. The industry is too focused on the lightweight roadie market.

I'm 17st and after a disastrous failure with a cheap rim and a mild failure of a branded rim (both less than 50% worn) I tried Ryde Andra 30 CSS Rims which after a year of commuting showed zero wear. Stopping performance was great with Swissstop Blue brake blocks in Deore V's but they lacked any feel.

The next two bikes I bought had mechanical discs because I wanted wider rims and just didn't trust anything without CSS. With sintered pads they perform amazingly well (especially in the wet) and only squeal for the first few minutes of a damp ride.

I would never go back to rim brakes now especially after discovering TRP Spyke calipers.

On the Good Bike at the moment, ceramic Mavic xc717s, xtr Vs, Nokon cables, oddesy Ti brake booster on the front. No wear. The original Shimano ceramic blocks were wonderful, but the rims suffered a glossy build up, over years, which took away some bite. After a long quest I managed to find a NOS pair of rims after the front developed a stutter on braking. Long quest. Fitted the xtr hubs to finish doing up all the groupset. Went swissstops blue for them. No build up. Continued bite. One finger braking is great, in the dry, wet needs two, and with thicker gloves in the winter. My Hope Tech3 R4s 203/160 are far more powerful and the stopping is pretty much unaffected by the wet and filth, but the front will scream when filth gets on it.

Disks put a stop to ceramic rims on xc bikes, I think it was a shame. Very light, and no rim wear. But a bit delicate.

If you want no wear get a set of ceramic or CSS rims.

I put on a cheap ebay brake booster just before the bike was relegated to 3rd choice and was very impressed but I haven't tried fancy cables yet. If I ever stop daydreaming about building my dream Surly from the frame up and actually take the plunge I'll definitely be trying them.

nickyburnell wrote:

Discs fade if you are heavy or ride fast loaded. It's area specific of course but as someone of 16st and the owner of both sorts, the rim brakes do a better job in North Devon for me. I'm on EBC downhill pads which have helped a lot but considering a 180mm conversion. The only reason I put up with them is tyre size on gravel bike. Campag rim brakes on other bikes, no issues, more specifically no overheating. Alloy rims.

until it's wet, going down 20% hills in the rain and trying to stop is very scary.

even more so with carbon rims

You just need to increase the braking surface of the brake shoes.

Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

Was thinking about this on the weekend. My winter hack uses rim brakes. Being back on it has really shown me how much better disc brakes are. It's not so much the stopping power, but the consistency that discs provide that is so confidence inspiring. 

...

Basically, I'm paying well over 10 times the amount for a heavier package. Is this really progress? 

If they really cost 10x why did you buy them when you knew the all-up weight would be more? Only a fool would pay £1100 for a pair of wheels when they know a £90 pair does the job just as well... except it doesn't, as you say in your first sentence.

It's like deciding to buy a new car because it's far more reliable and then saying that you found a clean-looking 8 year-old Fiat at a tenth of the price so it's the dealer's fault for selling you the new car.

You can't have it both ways. You say discs are better yet are whining about a bit of added weight. If that's an issue then just eat less. Or race a rim-braked bike. And in the end the weight difference won't change your finishing position or your time on a strava segment.

 Not sure what you mean?  Are you worried about road feel or something else?

Yes of course.
Slim steel forks absorb a lot of road irregularities.

They do, because to avoid weighing an actual (Imperial) ton they're often made with narrow section tubing, which consequently flops around like a noodle. I mean a rather robust noodle, to be fair, but one none the less. Used to try and watch mine bend by slamming the front brakes on BITD. What fun.

fukawitribe wrote:

They do, because to avoid weighing an actual (Imperial) ton they're often made with narrow section tubing, which consequently flops around like a noodle. I mean a rather robust noodle, to be fair, but one none the less. Used to try and watch mine bend by slamming the front brakes on BITD. What fun.

On my 2013 Jamis Aurora Elite, a Reynolds 631 frame with steel fork and Avid BB-7 mechanical disc brakes, I could see the fork twist when I braked hard. The front tyre would move sideways about a centimetre relative to the front mudguard.

On the other hand on my old Reynolds 531 touring frame watching the forktips flex absorbing the road irregularities was a real pleasure on long quiet stretches. I wish my current bike's carbon forks had that shock dampening compliance.

I think fatter lower pressure tyres absorb more.

Backladder wrote:

I think fatter lower pressure tyres absorb more.

Fat tyres plus flexible fork absorbs even more.

I think fat soft tires at ultra low pressure, near unridable flexible forks, flexible frames, huge soft suspension fork and rear suspension (like theoretical 500mm lol), flexible bars and seat post plus flexible cranks absorb enough to make a 10m drop feel smoother than the smoothest asphalt😂💀

Jack Luke from bikeradar (sorry!) has a really interesting take on this with his vintage steelie - he can SEE the flex! I would argue that, while big tires are my fave solution to improving ride feel, flexy steel stays are also excellent.

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/jack-luke-road-bike-lee-cooper/

Tha majority of the movement in a flexing fork is forwards and backwards, there is very lttle up and down.

True, but I imagine that (given headtube angle) forward and backward flex translates to at least a tiny amount of upward and downward movement, and something that elastic would also be reasonably good at absorbing shock.

Rene Herse put a delightful curve on their beautiful steel forks.