Penalties for driving offences

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Think the death penalty is a great option, kill two birds with one stone.
remove threat for now and forever

No additional costs to keep killer in prison, no extra prisons to be built either.

win, win for society, play dumb cunt games, win dumb cunt prizes, should be extended to child rapists, murderers, armed robbers, etc all the really heinous stuff were they are caught bang to rights.

 

*facepalm*

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Think the death penalty is a great option, kill two birds with one stone.
remove threat for now and forever

No additional costs to keep killer in prison, no extra prisons to be built either.

win, win for society, play dumb cunt games, win dumb cunt prizes, should be extended to child rapists, murderers, armed robbers, etc all the really heinous stuff were they are caught bang to rights.

 

*facepalm*

What's your problem exactly? If you don't agree at least have a stab at saying why, given your recent rantings I'm surprised you left it at that.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Think the death penalty is a great option, kill two birds with one stone.
remove threat for now and forever

No additional costs to keep killer in prison, no extra prisons to be built either.

win, win for society, play dumb cunt games, win dumb cunt prizes, should be extended to child rapists, murderers, armed robbers, etc all the really heinous stuff were they are caught bang to rights.

 

*facepalm*

What's your problem exactly? If you don't agree at least have a stab at saying why, given your recent rantings I'm surprised you left it at that.

Well, I was kind of hoping that your comments were 'tongue in cheek', so that once I just wrote '*facepalm*', you'd use the 'I was just kidding' defence. 

Were you actually being serious?  

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Think the death penalty is a great option, kill two birds with one stone.
remove threat for now and forever

No additional costs to keep killer in prison, no extra prisons to be built either.

win, win for society, play dumb cunt games, win dumb cunt prizes, should be extended to child rapists, murderers, armed robbers, etc all the really heinous stuff were they are caught bang to rights.

 

*facepalm*

What's your problem exactly? If you don't agree at least have a stab at saying why, given your recent rantings I'm surprised you left it at that.

Well, I was kind of hoping that your comments were 'tongue in cheek', so that once I just wrote '*facepalm*', you'd use the 'I was just kidding' defence. 

Were you actually being serious?  

Yes, I was being serious, I agree with the approach by the Tiawanese, we don't see any improvement from killers/serious criminals using the ineffective penalties/punishments, maybe something a bit harsher will focus the minds of some and removal of those off the face of the earth so there is zero chance of them re-offending in the most heinous crimes that we know.

Or maybe you think it's right that someone who rapes an 18 month baby not only gets three square meals a day, a bed and a roof - something many millions don't have the luxury of, AND gets to walk free. 16 year sentence and then out, to commit another heinous crime and having cost tax payers millions. Sorry but that's not a solution, in terms of modifying behaviour, of course it's not going to be a deterrent to all, very likely the vast majority it won't change for certain crimes, but with a death sentence there's absolutely no chance they will ever have to commit that crime again.

It's socaially acceptable to have the death penalty, it's what a civilised society should do to remove the most dangerous sub humans from that society and for its protection.

That's my view.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Think the death penalty is a great option, kill two birds with one stone.
remove threat for now and forever

No additional costs to keep killer in prison, no extra prisons to be built either.

win, win for society, play dumb cunt games, win dumb cunt prizes, should be extended to child rapists, murderers, armed robbers, etc all the really heinous stuff were they are caught bang to rights.

 

*facepalm*

What's your problem exactly? If you don't agree at least have a stab at saying why, given your recent rantings I'm surprised you left it at that.

Well, I was kind of hoping that your comments were 'tongue in cheek', so that once I just wrote '*facepalm*', you'd use the 'I was just kidding' defence. 

Were you actually being serious?  

Yes, I was being serious, I agree with the approach by the Tiawanese, we don't see any improvement from killers/serious criminals using the ineffective penalties/punishments, maybe something a bit harsher will focus the minds of some and removal of those off the face of the earth so there is zero chance of them re-offending in the most heinous crimes that we know.

Or maybe you think it's right that someone who rapes an 18 month baby not only gets three square meals a day, a bed and a roof - something many millions don't have the luxury of, AND gets to walk free. 16 year sentence and then out, to commit another heinous crime and having cost tax payers millions. Sorry but that's not a solution, in terms of modifying behaviour, of course it's not going to be a deterrent to all, very likely the vast majority it won't change for certain crimes, but with a death sentence there's absolutely no chance they will ever have to commit that crime again.

It's socaially acceptable to have the death penalty, it's what a civilised society should do to remove the most dangerous sub humans from that society and for its protection.

That's my view.

That may be your veiw, but quite simply deterrents don't work. (Otherwise Taiwan, Saudi , Iran, Uzbekhistan and Texas wouldn't have murderers / child rapists, thieves, women drivers etc)

There's 2 things that work:

(i)The chance of being caught (as this increases, the crime incidence generally drops) There are crimes where this isn't true (particularly 'crimes of passion')

(ii)Re-education / social engineering. This can work across the board from sexual crimes to shoplifting, and can include drug fuelled crimes.

Outside of this the only thing that has any effect is simply taking them out of circulation. This could be via the death penalty , or by life without parole. Given the obvious concerns about the failures of the justice system (of which you are a strident observer) then clearly the death sentence is ethically usupportable, so life in prison, and those 3 squares a day are the price we collectively pay to keep both our conscience clear and truly awful killers out of circulation. I am with you on wishing that LWOP is extended to other crimes more regularly.

That may be your view, but this was the facts.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Think the death penalty is a great option, kill two birds with one stone.
remove threat for now and forever

No additional costs to keep killer in prison, no extra prisons to be built either.

win, win for society, play dumb cunt games, win dumb cunt prizes, should be extended to child rapists, murderers, armed robbers, etc all the really heinous stuff were they are caught bang to rights.

 

*facepalm*

What's your problem exactly? If you don't agree at least have a stab at saying why, given your recent rantings I'm surprised you left it at that.

Well, I was kind of hoping that your comments were 'tongue in cheek', so that once I just wrote '*facepalm*', you'd use the 'I was just kidding' defence. 

Were you actually being serious?  

Yes, I was being serious, I agree with the approach by the Tiawanese, we don't see any improvement from killers/serious criminals using the ineffective penalties/punishments, maybe something a bit harsher will focus the minds of some and removal of those off the face of the earth so there is zero chance of them re-offending in the most heinous crimes that we know.

Or maybe you think it's right that someone who rapes an 18 month baby not only gets three square meals a day, a bed and a roof - something many millions don't have the luxury of, AND gets to walk free. 16 year sentence and then out, to commit another heinous crime and having cost tax payers millions. Sorry but that's not a solution, in terms of modifying behaviour, of course it's not going to be a deterrent to all, very likely the vast majority it won't change for certain crimes, but with a death sentence there's absolutely no chance they will ever have to commit that crime again.

It's socaially acceptable to have the death penalty, it's what a civilised society should do to remove the most dangerous sub humans from that society and for its protection.

That's my view.

Well, then.  You seem to have it all sorted. 

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Think the death penalty is a great option, kill two birds with one stone.
remove threat for now and forever

No additional costs to keep killer in prison, no extra prisons to be built either.

win, win for society, play dumb cunt games, win dumb cunt prizes, should be extended to child rapists, murderers, armed robbers, etc all the really heinous stuff were they are caught bang to rights.

 

*facepalm*

What's your problem exactly? If you don't agree at least have a stab at saying why, given your recent rantings I'm surprised you left it at that.

Maybe he's all ranted out?

Anyway, the main problem with the death penalty is the error rate that the criminal justice system has.

It's also ethically problematic and most of the world thinks of capital punishment as being barbaric and not compatible with human rights.

Edit: Came across this little debunking site: https://deathpenalty.org/facts/5-myths-death-penalty/

Seems like it costs more to execute a prisoner than it does to keep them in prison, so it's not even cost effective.

HawkinsPeter wrote:

 

Seems like it costs more to execute a prisoner than it does to keep them in prison, so it's not even cost effective.

That is an issue that is almost soleley attributable to the american system. Most other death penalty systems are much faster, cheaper, and (ironically) more humane.

I think the error rate of the justice system is an issue, but the greater issue is that the justice system is so systematically flawed with institutionalised racism etc (for some crimes that could lead to the death penalty you are 5-6 times more likely to be convicted as a black person than as a white person) that the death penalty is ethically wrong. 

madcarew wrote:

HawkinsPeter wrote:

 

Seems like it costs more to execute a prisoner than it does to keep them in prison, so it's not even cost effective.

That is an issue that is almost soleley attributable to the american system. Most other death penalty systems are much faster, cheaper, and (ironically) more humane.

I think the error rate of the justice system is an issue, but the greater issue is that the justice system is so systematically flawed with institutionalised racism etc (for some crimes that could lead to the death penalty you are 5-6 times more likely to be convicted as a black person than as a white person) that the death penalty is ethically wrong. 

Yep, I expect that more totalitarian states can just give out a sentence without worrying too much with whether justice was served or not. The U.S. spends so much money to give the criminal lots of appeals in an attempt to not execute innocent people which just seems nonsensical to me.

madcarew wrote:

HawkinsPeter wrote:

 

Seems like it costs more to execute a prisoner than it does to keep them in prison, so it's not even cost effective.

That is an issue that is almost soleley attributable to the american system. Most other death penalty systems are much faster, cheaper, and (ironically) more humane.

I think the error rate of the justice system is an issue, but the greater issue is that the justice system is so systematically flawed with institutionalised racism etc (for some crimes that could lead to the death penalty you are 5-6 times more likely to be convicted as a black person than as a white person) that the death penalty is ethically wrong. 

With all of that money spent on appeals, how appalling that they have still executed innocents.   But once the defendant is dead, all attention is quite understandably directed at saving the living.   So the bleating from the rightard vermin that 'no innocents executed' is just that: bleating.