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Campagnolo Ultra Torque bearing conundrum

by Ogi
Thu, Aug 23, 2018 21:47
9

I love reading and exploring various different engineering options and solutions to various problems.

In that light, given the Ultra Torque design issues - implying also non-standard bearing size -> 6805N (25x37x6)...has anyone tried fitting standard industrial bearings 25x37x7? My common sense tells me that it shouldn't work as 2mm is too large for the system - assuming for example that BSA shell measures 68mm +-reasobale discrepancy. Even taking a wavy washer out, surely you'd get binding of the crank (no spinning), or maybe even bearings to be crushed?

Maybe if the BB shell is narrower by a higher margin than normal (e.g. closer to 67mm).

Any thoughts are welcome. I'm dreaming of the day I can put INA/FAG 2RS standard bearing on my Ultra Torque and get like 30,000km out of the set of bearings :).

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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9 comments

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Ogi | 6 years ago
0 likes

Thanks guys for all the thoughts.

Why bother with ceramic bearings? If I was racing, sure. Every watt counts, but for general use in normal and especially UK conditions, it makes no economic sense to me.

Standard UT bearings are ok, I never said they are poor quality, but seals can be better (ergo my FAG/INA reference). For someone who rides a lot during the year, this is where my comment was coming from. UT bearings need maintenance - for me circa 2-3 months, and they can do max 3 cycles before being gone.

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Vejnemojnen | 6 years ago
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-6805N-2RS-Deep-Groove-Rubber-Shielded-Bicy...

 

They are fine. Why spend more? Been using it for a few years, as well as bought around 20 pairs for selling-gifting them. The LBS always uses these, as getting them is kinda more cost-conscious than the genuine part..

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BehindTheBikesheds | 6 years ago
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Don't know about now but Campagnolo used to use SKF bearings at least in their BBs and their steel hub bearings were superb quality. THUN made copies of the Campag BB design and used FAG bearings AFAIK, certainly one of the smoothest/low friction BBs I've ever used and better  (and much longer wearing) than most so called ceramic outboard bearing types most of which are in fact hybrid variants.

Rarely had to worry about campag hubs regarding pitting, only a few thousand on my Bora Ones but lovely smooth hubs.

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srchar | 6 years ago
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It's true that SR cups don't have an inner seal, but that's because CULT bearings don't need one as they are not affected by water or dirt ingress (they contain no grease), not because they're "made for racing" and will grind away to a fine powder after 200km.

The SR cups still have a groove into which you could pop a seal if you wanted to, but it's completely unnecessary.

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madcarew replied to srchar | 6 years ago
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srchar wrote:

It's true that SR cups don't have an inner seal, but that's because CULT bearings don't need one as they are not affected by water or dirt ingress (they contain no grease), not because they're "made for racing" and will grind away to a fine powder after 200km.

The SR cups still have a groove into which you could pop a seal if you wanted to, but it's completely unnecessary.

This makes no sense to me. All bearings will be affected by dirt ingress. It may not be trapped there, but that's immaterial. The dirt will still pit and destroy the steel races. Grease is there as much as anything to seal the seals. You can use light oil but will have to replace it regularly as it will leak out the seals. 

Cult bearings without inner seals are made for very regular maintenance

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srchar replied to madcarew | 6 years ago
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madcarew wrote:

This makes no sense to me. All bearings will be affected by dirt ingress. It may not be trapped there, but that's immaterial. The dirt will still pit and destroy the steel races.

The races on the CULT bearings are made of a very hard steel which is very, very resistant to pitting. The balls themselves are so hard that they can't be used in normal steel races, as they destroy the race.  This is why, when upgrading to CULT hub bearings, the cones need to be upgraded too.

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matthewn5 | 6 years ago
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Bear in mind that the ceramic bearings that come fitted to Super Record Titanium cranks have no seals on the inside, apparently because they're made for racing, and need regular service.

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pwake | 6 years ago
2 likes

Why would you even want to try that? The normal bearings are so easy to remove/re-install that unless you ride a ton of miles you're not really going to save yourself any real maintenance time. 

Hybrid ceramic bearings in 6805N size are readily available and I've recently fitted some to my Ultratorque setup; if you can tell the difference between those and full ceramic, then you're a better man than me...

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srchar | 6 years ago
1 like

It's not Ultra Torque "design issues" (== out-of-spec BB shells) that would stop me trying this - it's the fact that you're proposing to fit a bearing that is almost 20% wider than spec.  In my experience, Campag's bearings are amongst the best; mine lasted well over 10,000km of all-weather commuting.  How long do you get out of the standard Campag bearings?  

Have you considered upgrading to CULT bearings?  I have no experience of them myself, but they are purported to last much longer than the standard items, which seems to be what you're trying to achieve.

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