[Cycloid]

A couple of other threads on the Forum are talking about road rage incidents. I am asking the fundamental question – Why Road Rage?

A popular psychology book from the local library gives some insights.

Outgroups – an outgroup is a group of people to which you do not belong. People tend to make generalisations which they then apply to the group as a whole, for example, (All) Muslims are terrorists, wfe beaters, etc (Not True). Cyclists are reckless, law breakers and they ride through red lights. Vegetarians are an outgroup (Thanks Ian Walker) but nobody really hates them, though they are a pain when they come round for dinner. So there must be other factors.

Free Riders – Altruistic punishment – This is probably best explained by an example. You go to watch a cricket match. The match has just started, it’s a lovely sunny day and you are sitting down with a pack of sandwiches and a can of beer when a guy climbs over the fence and sits next to you. It should not be a problem, he’s done nothing to detract from your experience, but many people would get a steward to eject the wrongdoer. This is altruistsic punishment, in order to get your version of justice done you have missed a bit of the match.

Cyclists don’t pay Road Tax (OK it’s VED), have no training, don’t have to take a test or hold a license. They have no insurance. They don’t have to buy expensive highly taxed (79% tax) fuel. They don’t pay for parking but they cause congestion.

Cyclists Ignore the Highway Code, Redlights, Oneway streets, Footpaths, Etc… They are inconsiderate, Ride in the middle of the road, two abreast, cause delays. They jump queues, are inconsiderate and aggressive.

However, Cyclists are Fitter, Healthier and place Fewer demands on the NHS. They Don’t pollute, Use fewer resources .They take up less road space, and Don’t damage the roads. More reasons to hate them. They are a load of Smug, Sanctimonious bastards.

Every group or society has it’s laws, rules, traditions and manners and people who do not conform are punished.

From (some) motorists viewpoint – Cyclists don’t pay or contribute to use the infrastructure, they abuse the privilege and break the laws – They should be punished for the good of society.

 

 

Topic

[AlsoSomniloquism]

I would argue that a person

I would argue that a person who road rages at a cyclist would road rage at anything that causes them to slow down or have to do more then drive. They are in a car to go fast so don’t like it if they can’t.

For example, near me a main dual carriageway next to an Asda and traffic island is being worked on and the main lanes on have been reduced to one lane. The supermarket means it gets very busy in the best of times but now the traffic is backed up several hundred yards up. When I was filtering down the traffic before the single lane kicked in you had people swapping lanes left and right to save 2 seconds here or there. However you also had cars mounting the central reservation to go a different route even though they would have to go miles out of their way to avoid the island if going straight on.  Although I did laugh my head off as a Mercedes AMG 63 decided to try that and got stuck as the engine at the front meant his rear wheels were lifted and slipping on the grass and had no grip, the state of the reservation today looks like a grass rally had taken place with large divots left all over the place. Whilst not all of those are classic examples of road rage, the fact that drivers were risking their cars mechanically and there lives and the lives of others is a road rage at being stuck in a queue. They would also be likely to have a go at a cyclist for filtering past something they are stuck in. 

[Cycloid]

Spot on

Spot on

There’s a whole branch of mathematics (queueing theory) devoted to this.

I dont think it explains why it’s always the cyclist that gets the blame for the delays?

[Mungecrundle]

In almost 40 years of driving
In almost 40 years of driving, I can probably total up the time I have been delayed by cyclists in terms of minutes, maybe an hour or two at most. In terms of road works it could be somewhere in the region of weeks.

Even when you do have to wait to overtake a cyclist it usually works out that not long after you pass you come up against some other delay; a slower vehicle, traffic controls etc.

In town, cycles are often more likely to be held up by cars. It doesn’t take many to create a jam.

In the countryside, if you are driving and find yourself frustrated by numerous large groups of cyclists then maybe you should be asking if you are the problem in using a car when so many more people are using cycles. Don’t buy into the fallacy that car drivers somehow have a greater right to use the public highway or that they must be doing something more important.

Cyclists do not, in my experience, create any meaningful delay to other road users.

[andystow]

When I queue up to buy a pint

When I queue up to buy a pint of beer at a busy pub [before Covid-19] I delay the person behind me for a minute, compared to if I wasn’t there. That delays the person behind him, then the person behind her, all the way until the queue ends as the pub clears out.

By buying a single pint, I’ve delayed probably hundreds of people for a minute or two each. My one beer has collectively caused multiple hours of waiting. Really, I’m questioning how I ever became so inconsiderate!

[HoarseMann]

Good point. If I’m driving

Good point. If I’m driving and stuck in traffic, I always get out and ask the drivers behind the purpose of their journey. If it’s more important than mine I let them pass. 

[Hirsute]

Antisocial cycling =
Antisocial cycling = recreational cycling then.
Have you measured the overall costs of this then taking account of well being, long term effect on the NHS.
Although you claim that there is tiny increase in pollution, do you have any hard numbers to support this rather than the pollution being unchanged or less.
How many of the 50-150 vehicles does it take not to go on a journey to break even with your more pollution claim?
As before “If you think that stopping a tiny bit of pollution is the answer then I should really like to know what the question is.”

[Anonymous]

Rendel Harris wrote:

Rendel Harris wrote:

Thank you for your reply. You have answered my question most fully – you are both a car-loving troll and an idiot. Utter drivel.

What happened to the new Road.cc comment moderation?

[Smiffi]

ktache wrote:

My commute takes me between towns and villages.

I do far more miles as a utility cyclist than a recreational one.

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions

I am making assumptions due to the lack of hard data.  I do know that CyclingUk estimate that less than half UK cycle travel is commuting/shopping/car-replacement miles, and since most of those miles take place in cities and towns, I specifically excluded those areas.  Of course, some people commute through villages and on back roads, but from the limited data available, and my experience of myself, friends, and family, the vast bulk of countryside riding is recreational.  If someone can cite a source that shows that this supposition is incorrect then I’m happy to revise my view.  

[Smiffi]

Rendel Harris wrote:

Rendel Harris wrote:

Thank you for your reply. You have answered my question most fully – you are both a car-loving troll and an idiot. Utter drivel.

There’s no need to be rude just because someone is giving a different perspective. Your view may be that as a cyclist you have the right to ride wherever and whenever you desire. I have posted a counter perspective based on how my mindset has changed, but I’m not being rude or disparaging. Your attitude is precisely why there’s friction between road users, a little consideration for a different perspective goes a awful long way to peaceful coexistence.

[Smiffi]

hirsute wrote:

hirsute wrote:

The 1% is misleading as it takes account of motorways and trunk roads.
If you think that stopping a tiny bit of pollution is the answer then I should really like to know what the question is.

You should have a look at the stats in London on journey distance and journey purpose.

That’s precisely why I excluded cities and towns where cycle usage is much more skewed to “useful” purposes, and general road speeds are lower. In cities and larger towns cycling for commuting and shopping should be actively encouraged. It’s just antisocial cycling that I take issue with.

[Hirsute]

The 1% is misleading as it
The 1% is misleading as it takes account of motorways and trunk roads.
If you think that stopping a tiny bit of pollution is the answer then I should really like to know what the question is.

You should have a look at the stats in London on journey distance and journey purpose.

[Hirsute]

Because they dont have
Because they dont have insurance so ‘who will pay for my motor’ is what I have just read.

[Mungecrundle]

My theory is that cyclists
My theory is that cyclists can represent a challenge to negotiate safely. The skills required include; observation, anticipation, forward planning, self control and vehicle handling (braking, accelerating, steering, changing gear).

Humans have a tendancy to over estimate our own abilities, not just when it comes to driving, though that activity does seem to generate some particularly strong self delusion of ability. Hence when a driver finds themselves in a situation that they have failed to deal with properly it has to be the other party at fault. Some of us learn from those experiences and statistically become safer drivers. Some of us are unable to learn and fail to modify our own behaviour. The next time we are presented with a similar situation we are more likely to become irritated with the cause of the problem as we see it. Sometimes annoyed enough to lash out using the closest weapon available.

[Podc]

I disagree that few drivers

I disagree that few drivers are out and about for enjoyment. I’d say a significant proportion are but for most it’s the destination that is to provide the enjoyment/entertainment rather than the actual journey. Result is the same. A further significant proportion are driving not because they have to, but simply because it’s convenient for them – short journeys that could easily be walked or cycled are an obvious example.

Rather than feeling selfish for impacting motorists by cycling, consider the impact of using a car on everyone else – the risk of accidents resulting in serious injury or death, pollution which is estimated to kill about 40,000 in the UK annually, congestion, impact on the environment and wildlife etc. I don’t feel selfish when I cycle but on the odd occasion I drive I do.

[ktache]

My commute takes me between

My commute takes me between towns and villages.

I do far more miles as a utility cyclist than a recreational one.

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions.

 

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