[Cycloid]

A couple of other threads on the Forum are talking about road rage incidents. I am asking the fundamental question – Why Road Rage?

A popular psychology book from the local library gives some insights.

Outgroups – an outgroup is a group of people to which you do not belong. People tend to make generalisations which they then apply to the group as a whole, for example, (All) Muslims are terrorists, wfe beaters, etc (Not True). Cyclists are reckless, law breakers and they ride through red lights. Vegetarians are an outgroup (Thanks Ian Walker) but nobody really hates them, though they are a pain when they come round for dinner. So there must be other factors.

Free Riders – Altruistic punishment – This is probably best explained by an example. You go to watch a cricket match. The match has just started, it’s a lovely sunny day and you are sitting down with a pack of sandwiches and a can of beer when a guy climbs over the fence and sits next to you. It should not be a problem, he’s done nothing to detract from your experience, but many people would get a steward to eject the wrongdoer. This is altruistsic punishment, in order to get your version of justice done you have missed a bit of the match.

Cyclists don’t pay Road Tax (OK it’s VED), have no training, don’t have to take a test or hold a license. They have no insurance. They don’t have to buy expensive highly taxed (79% tax) fuel. They don’t pay for parking but they cause congestion.

Cyclists Ignore the Highway Code, Redlights, Oneway streets, Footpaths, Etc… They are inconsiderate, Ride in the middle of the road, two abreast, cause delays. They jump queues, are inconsiderate and aggressive.

However, Cyclists are Fitter, Healthier and place Fewer demands on the NHS. They Don’t pollute, Use fewer resources .They take up less road space, and Don’t damage the roads. More reasons to hate them. They are a load of Smug, Sanctimonious bastards.

Every group or society has it’s laws, rules, traditions and manners and people who do not conform are punished.

From (some) motorists viewpoint – Cyclists don’t pay or contribute to use the infrastructure, they abuse the privilege and break the laws – They should be punished for the good of society.

 

 

Topic

[hawkinspeter]

I’m wondering if there’s any

I’m wondering if there’s any correlation between people who don’t return their trolleys and MGIF drivers?

[hawkinspeter]

Captain Badger wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Thought of an analogy – drivers hating cyclists on the roads is like shoppers with shopping trolleys hating people using the 10-items-or-less tills.

It breaks down before the point where the trolleyer gets the hump with the basketist and kicks ’em in the fruit aisle…. just doesn’t happen

It does highlight the difference in acceptable behaviour between people walking around and people driving.

[Captain Badger]

Smiffi wrote:

People who drive are generally trying to get somewhere and few people drive just for the enjoyment.  People who cycle (outside of cities and towns) are generally enjoying a recreational ride to enjoy a day out.  Cyclists generally (outside of cities/towns) travel more slowly that the other road users, and can impede the other users progress.  That’s why there’s friction.

I have a Garmin Varia radar which logs how many times I’m overtaken.  On a typical  outdoor ride I might be overtaken by 50-150 vehicles, so my 2hr of enjoyable exercise can impede progress of 50-150 other people (obviously depending on road conditions).  Can I justify taking-up so many minutes of other people’s lives? I’m beginning to question that, and that’s why I’ve “ridden” almost all of my 1,000 miles this year indoors.

So now you drive where you could have cycled. 

Adding to congestion. Can you justify that?

Adding to pollution – literally taking minutes from peope’s lives. Can you justify that?

Increasing the risk to others on the road. Can you justify that?

I’d stick to doing all your driving indoors in future.

Like this bloke….

 

[Rendel Harris]

Captain Badger wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Thought of an analogy – drivers hating cyclists on the roads is like shoppers with shopping trolleys hating people using the 10-items-or-less tills.

It breaks down before the point where the trolleyer gets the hump with the basketist and kicks ’em in the fruit aisle…. just doesn’t happen

On the other hand I have seen trolleyists push into the basketist queue and refuse to move on the grounds that everywhere else is full up and they’re in a hurry, which reminds one of the drivers who dive into bus/bike lanes and who occupy cyclist ASZs because to do otherwise would add whole seconds to their journey.

[Hirsute]

On that basis, you will be

On that basis, you will be wanting walkers not to walk anywhere because they are causing pollution. Even if they stick to paths there will be times when they need to walk on the roads to get from path A to path B forcing cars to slow down for a bit.

No walking then…

[Cycloid]

I thinknyone who frequently

I think anyone who frequently rides a bike anywhere in the UK will experience gratuitous aggression from motorists. Yes it rare but it does exist.

[hawkinspeter]

I had a classic example of a

I had a classic example of a motorist hating me (a cyclist) as opposed to the traffic a couple of years ago.

I was commuting home along the A370 dual carriageway in Weston-super-Mare and as sometimes happens, the traffic had got backed up all the way from the M5 junction, so both lanes were full of stationary cars and trucks. I was happily filtering between the two lanes and some old codger shouted at me that I had to use the cycle lane instead as he’d paid lots of tax money to build it. Now, that had zero to do with me holding up traffic as clearly I was making progress and it was the traffic holding me up. Anyhow, I stopped and shouted “your ignorance is showing” at him and after a bit more shouting, I just went on my way, leaving him still fuming in his traffic jam.

[Rendel Harris]

Smiffi wrote:

Smiffi wrote:

There’s no need to be rude just because someone is giving a different perspective. Your view may be that as a cyclist you have the right to ride wherever and whenever you desire. I have posted a counter perspective based on how my mindset has changed, but I’m not being rude or disparaging. Your attitude is precisely why there’s friction between road users, a little consideration for a different perspective goes a awful long way to peaceful coexistence.[/quote]

It’s not “my view” that as a cyclist I have a right to ride wherever and wherever I desire (within the law), it’s the law. Oddly enough I don’t feel like sacrificing my right to free movement (on roads to which, incidentally, I contribute plenty through taxation) so some drivers won’t have the enormous inconvenience of having to show a little respect for other road users and perhaps add, ooh, ten or fifteen seconds to their journey.

Your “different perspective” is utter drivel and deserves all the rudeness it gets. Your central point is that any recreational or leisure cyclists should not be on the road because they are holding up motor vehicles. That’s right, isn’t it? Your attitude is precisely why there’s friction between road users, car drivers who think that cyclists don’t have a right to be on the road and so do their best to drive them off it.

I notice in your argument that anyone not using a bike for what you deem justifiable purposes (I see a nightmare future if people like you had your way where cyclists would have to produce written proof when challenged that they weren’t – heaven forefend – simply out enjoying themselves) you don’t mention the millions of drivers every day who use their cars for enjoyment, either directly or to reach leisure and recreational facilities? Do they not hold anyone up? And yet oddly it’s only cyclists who are subjected to your “stay off the road unless you’re commuting” drivel.

[Captain Badger]

Nigel Garrage wrote:

Nigel Garrage wrote:

Some (not all or the majority) of motorists hate cyclists for a variety of reasons: – because they generally hate everything, including themselves – because of the illusion that cyclists don’t pay for the roads yet impose negative externalities such as holding people up and providing danger to pedestrians by breaking traffic laws – because of the myth propagated by the Guardian and often this website (and people like Jeremy Vine/cycling Mikey) that feeds a narrative that all cyclists have the same left-remain viewpoints and personal characteristics – because they don’t cycle themselves and therefore your “outgroup” comes into play

You were doing really well until bullet 3

Then you started to froth a bit

But then recovered and brought it back for a reasonable point 4. Well done! You’ve come so far I’m proud of you!

[Captain Badger]

Ihatecheese wrote:

Motorists don’t hate cyclists any more than a traffic jam or anything causing delays.

The extreme is merely discrimination projected by some, formed by past experiences and heresay by a small percentage. 

In different little towns, villages and some cities people will have alternative mindsets affected by the local exposure to news, demographic, education, support and so on. 

No doubt there are places and areas with real venom and hatred between the two sets because of the reasons above. But outside of those. It’s just people riding a bike or car. Noone cares or is impressed with the car crew or bikes. It’s not motorists and cyclist’s. It’s just transport chosen depending on the circumstances.

However, everyone does enjoy a good Vs evil fight

 

#notallmotorists eh?

[Rendel Harris]

Nigel Garrage wrote:

Nigel Garrage wrote:

because of the myth propagated by the Guardian and often this website (and people like Jeremy Vine/cycling Mikey) that feeds a narrative that all cyclists have the same left-remain viewpoints and personal characteristics

If a motorist hates cyclists and thus behaves aggressively towards them because s/he believes that they read a different newspaper to them and/or votes a different way then they should have their licence removed immediately and be taken away for a period of psychiatric observation.

[Ihatecheese]

Motorists don’t hate cyclists

Motorists don’t hate cyclists any more than a traffic jam or anything causing delays.

The extreme is merely discrimination projected by some, formed by past experiences and heresay by a small percentage. 

In different little towns, villages and some cities people will have alternative mindsets affected by the local exposure to news, demographic, education, support and so on. 

No doubt there are places and areas with real venom and hatred between the two sets because of the reasons above. But outside of those. It’s just people riding a bike or car. Noone cares or is impressed with the car crew or bikes. It’s not motorists and cyclist’s. It’s just transport chosen depending on the circumstances.

However, everyone does enjoy a good Vs evil fight

 

[belugabob]

An example of this occurred,
An example of this occurred, today.
Had a click and collect order at Screwfix, on the opposite side of town, so I cycled over.
On the way back, through town, I was riding down a road where one side had been allocated to dotted line residential parking bays, with the occasional gap to allow oncoming traffic to pass. As the bays were not on my side of the road, I was pretty much free to progress all the way along.
Despite being a fairly quiet road, I had a couple of impatient “floor it, to get past the cyclist” incidents.
The irony is, that the thing which prevented cars from overtaking at will, and therefore being “delayed”, was the disproportionate provision of facilities for cars. Part of the public highway has been allocated as what is effectively private parking – but the parked cars don’t seem to attract the same sense of getting in the way as cyclists do.

It’s all so ill-considered but, hopefully, the balance will shift, soon.

[lonpfrb]

As someone who cycles only to
As someone who cycles only to take responsibility for my long term health and not burden the NHS with my long term care for for cardiac disease, I totally do not accept that is some frivolous recreation that should not impair the important motor vehicle travel going on around me. I absolutely do pay for road maintenance through taxation, though a bicycle clearly does little damage to the road. Every motor vehicle user has a legal and insurance contractual obligation to drive with due care and attention, including not to endanger vulnerable road users (Highway Code/Law) and is supposed to have met a minimum standard of competence. Since I’m a driver (IAM) and qualified Pilot, I know that safety is possible, we just have chosen not to bother.
The sooner we get humans out of controlling motor vehicles the better.
Better safety, better sustainability, better use of scarce resources, and better air to breathe.

[morgoth985]

Smiffi wrote:

Smiffi wrote:

 Your view may be that as a cyclist you have the right to ride wherever and whenever you desire.

Yes.  Next question?

[Author]

Replies