[JaredP91]

After a period of riding clinchers, I am looking to go tubeless to reduce my risk of punctures (particularly as I will be riding lots of Yorkshire cobbles in preparation for the Ronde Van Calderdale sportive), as well as save weight and improve my speed and comfort on the bike.

I just wondered what I need to make the conversion? The wheels on my Boardman SLR 8.6 are tubeless ready, so that’s a start, but how straightforward is it to make the change to tubeless?

Topic

[OnYerBike]

JaredP91 wrote:

JaredP91 wrote:

I’d definitely say reducing punctures is the main driver in my decision to consider tubeless. I have had a spate of punctures on my current 25mm Vittoria Zaffiro tyres, which came stock with the bike, and I am getting frustrated and repeated spells at the side of the road replacing inner tubes. I did consider better quality clinchers e.g. Conti GP5000 or 4 seasons, but fear even with the additional investment pinch flats and genuine punctures are still a possibility.

My partner’s bike came with Vittoria Zaffiros as standard and the number of punctures she got was ridiculous – three within the first two weeks (I was riding with her most of the time and didn’t get any). Since switching to better quality clinchers (GP4000s II), she hasn’t had any. Luck might play a role but I’m sure the quality of the tyre does too!

Pinch flats are unlikely on a road bike with decent tyre pressure. They are more of a risk off-roading where you might choose to run deliberately low pressure (and generally more likely to have big drops/rocks to hit). The only time I’ve had a pinch flat on my road bike was when I’d attempted to pump up the tyre using a pretty terrible mini-pump and had nowhere near enough pressure in it.

[Spangly Shiny]

My tubeless experiment has

My tubeless experiment has ended. After what must now be around 5 years running tubeless (going as far back as Schwalbe Ultrimos)I have decided to revert to tubes. 
My reasoning is the pure faff of running tubeless, with the sealant refill every 2 months (it does not last 3) and the sheer time expended should you need to fit that emergency spare tube (an hour to scrape the sealant off the inside of the tyre). 
I worked out that it takes me around 3 -4 minutes elapsed time to swap out an inner tube and get going again whereas last weekend I spent an hour by the side of the road fitting the emergency spare. Checking the inside of the tyre I spotted 2 accumulations of latex indicating 2 punctures that I escaped but that would have taken less than 10 minutes to fix. 
I know that it is said that running tubeless eliminates the risk of snakebite flats however in over 50 years on tubed tyres and tubs I never once had a snakebite flat.

[Carior]

I race long distance

I race long distance triathlon. 2.2W per wheel, 4.4W total over 180k adds up to a lot of time!

[fukawitribe]

Pilot Pete wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

The increased faff and extra/ different kit to carry, just in case that puncture doesn’t seal

The only thing I now bring that I didn’t with tubed clinchers is a credit card-sized pack of tyre boots, and that only replaces the fiver I had in there before for pretty much the same purpose. I hear similar from pretty much every user of tubeless i’ve heard, some will take some sealant but not that many IME (or have mentioned it anyway).

I check for any pin-prick seal marks when I check the tyres for cuts etc (as I do with tubed clinchers), and i’ll have a look at sealant every 6-9 months maybe. That latter is more faff, but it’s not hard, doesn’t take long and I budget it as part of the trade-off against stopping out on the road or on the trail. 

You’re right it is new to many but, to be honest, I think it’d be easier to explain and do for a complete novice than fitting with inner tubes – perhaps maybe even less to go wrong, if the tyres are actually tubeless rather than TLR certainly. YMMV obviously but a lot of the old niggles with TL/TLR really aren’t around any more IMO.

[Chris Hayes]

My experience of Vittoria

My experience of Vittoria tyres is that they tend to be comfortable and fast, but cut up easily on UK road surfaces: hence punctures.  Continental tyres (I use both 5000TL and 4000IIs on different bikes) have given me more protection, but you asked whether moving to TL would help prevent punctures.  

Having experimented with TL over the past year I’d say that changing an inner tube by the roadside is a pretty quick fix anyway if you’re leisure cycling. TL tyres are expensive and far from problem free (especially if you’re trying to fit them to alloy wheels that require rim tape) – and you can get some cracking deals on Conti 4000s and Vittoria Pave’s at the moment… much better tyres than you’re using and less than £30 a tyre.  I’d try that first – especially if you only have one bike / set of wheels… it took me nearly 6 hours to fix a leak during the lockdown and it really messed up my day!

 

 

[JaredP91]

I’d definitely say reducing
I’d definitely say reducing punctures is the main driver in my decision to consider tubeless. I have had a spate of punctures on my current 25mm Vittoria Zaffiro tyres, which came stock with the bike, and I am getting frustrated and repeated spells at the side of the road replacing inner tubes. I did consider better quality clinchers e.g. Conti GP5000 or 4 seasons, but fear even with the additional investment pinch flats and genuine punctures are still a possibility.

[Pilot Pete]

Carior wrote:

I mean – they do reduce rolling resistance which will improve speed – CRR has literally compared a tubeless vs clincher/latex 5000S.

Unless you are racing the reduced rolling resistance is marginal and of no consequence. I ride with mates who run tubeless and the rolling resistance of their tubeless compared to others tubed makes no difference in our group rides.

For example the difference between a Conti GP5000 with a butyl tube and the TL model is 2.2 watts at 80psi. So claiming that less rolling resistance will improve speed is meaningless to the average rider unless they are doing a time trial.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/compare/continental-grand-prix-5000-2018-vs-continental-grand-prix-5000-tl-2018

Reducing punctures would presumably be the main driving factor of choosing tubeless. If you are prone to puncturing often then they could be of real benefit. If you want to run lower pressures and risk pinch flatting on tubed tyres then again they could be of real benefit.

However, if you don’t, then there are a lot of downsides due to the inconsistencies and lack of standards. The increased faff and extra/ different kit to carry, just in case that puncture doesn’t seal, the fact that they are different and users need to understand and learn new techniques and do more maintenance and possibly need different tools all mean it is not clear cut for everyone.

Many of the newer breed of cyclists do little or no maintenance. Most could fix a puncture by fitting a new tube previously, but the extra requirements of tubeless make this task more difficult and for those users, if they follow a proper setup and maintenance regime, more expensive if they have to get a bike shop to do it. 

PP

 

[Stebbo]

Any improvement in speed

Any improvement in speed whilst technically there would be small and imperceptible. To anything but testing equipment and a stop watch. Comfort is so difficult to define and open to cognitive bias once you know you have reduced the pressure and changed the tyres to tubeless. 
But as long as you are happy and enjoy riding.

[Pilot Pete]

I run GP5000 and GP4000sII

I run GP5000 and GP4000sII clincher tyres in 25mm width at 85 rear, 80 front. I don’t feel I need to run them any softer as the ride is fine and grip excellent and I don’t pinch flat at that. I weigh 83kg.

This is worth a read, especially for those running hookless rims with tubeless tyres who carry a spare tube ‘just in case’. Be careful trying to mount the tyre with a tube in after a flat that doesn’t seal – some manufacturers don’t recommend it.

For example, Enve state that your are welcome to put a tube in “as long as your tyre is listed on our approved tubeless tyre list”. You could argue that’s a legal ‘get out of any liability’ issue, or more realistically that the tyre has been tested and demonstrated to not blow off the rim with a tube in. All I would suggest is that those running tubeless check before fitting a tube to ensure the wheel and tyre manufacturer don’t specifically warn against it.

https://www.velonews.com/gear/tech-faq-hooked-vs-hookless-rims-tire-choice-and-pressure-recommendations/

PP

[Velophaart_95]

That is how I set up my

That is how I set up my tubeless tyres; fit an inner tube and leave overnight….

and it seems to work. The only tyres I’ve has issues with are the Vittoria Corsa Controls; they need loads of sealant, and they lose pressure far quicker than every other tyre I’ve tried.

[Carior]

I mean – they do reduce

I mean – they do reduce rolling resistance which will improve speed – CRR has literally compared a tubeless vs clincher/latex 5000S.

My experience is that I have ridden some crap which appears to have sealed that otherwise would have needed to be repaired.

In terms of comfort that sort of depends on how much you’re prepared to trade a pinch flat risk for comfort.  If you are someone that runs rock solid pressures to avoid pinch flats then loads of scope for dropping down pressure substantially for comfort with no pinch flat risk.  But then, if you’re someone that still runs tyres at 100PSI plus and isn’t seriously heavy you’re probably just a retro-grouch who has no interest in change anyway.

[Carior]

Oh plus one to this – three

Oh plus one to this – three sets of wheels I have had were nightmares – so crappy reparto corse wheels on my entry to road biking nirone.  Fulcrum racing 3s and the worst of the lot, DT Swiss R32 Splines.  The latter are almost impossible to get back on even with the full works, soapy water, levers, everything – absolutely impossible with every tire I have tried on them.  Conversely, I have two sets of tubeless rims (Roval and Cannondale Hollowgram) that have been a synch with either clincher or tubeless.

The old compatibility and hard to get on thing is to be frank a lazy trope that’s always trotted out and its kinda bollocks.  There are crappy hard to deal with clinchers and crappy hard to deal with tubuless.  Fortunately wheel manufacturers are realising that you can get a tyre to seat effectively in a rim without having them so tight that they need to be surgically removed. (Fortunately the trend toward wider rubber and wider rim beds also seems to help with this as my experience with wider rimmed aero wheels is universally better!)

[fukawitribe]

Pilot Pete wrote:

Which is all well and good if you have a tyre and rim combination that are easy enough to get off/ on roadside. Due to lack of design standards some tubeless rim/ tyre combinations can be an absolute pig to install/ remove due to being so tight.

Mind you, this is true of clinchers as well. My two most hideous to remove tyre /rim combinations are Panaracer clinchers on Bontrager rims. Nightmare; bendy tire-levered, profanity laced nightmare.
TLRs from Mavic (Hutchinson) and Specialized go on the same rims a breeze, often just fingers.

[Pilot Pete]

Which is all well and good if

Which is all well and good if you have a tyre and rim combination that are easy enough to get off/ on roadside. Due to lack of design standards some tubeless rim/ tyre combinations can be an absolute pig to install/ remove due to being so tight. Good luck ‘just popping a tube in’ and trying to get the bead back on without pinching the tube if you have a tight combination. Even more so on a cold, wet winter ride….

You appear to be missing out on the point that the easier fix for a tubeless tyre when out on the road is to plug the hole that won’t seal, without removing the tyre. Surely this has to be preferable to fitting a tube? In this case you do need to carry different/ additional kit.

Th other thing to bear in mind with your ‘just bang a tube in’ approach is that your wonderful tubeless tyre may be full of thorns that sealed without you even knowing you had a puncture. You better inspect the inside of that tyre thoroughly before just banging in your only tube and inflating it….

PP

[Anonymous]

You don’t need to carry

You don’t need to carry anymore than a ‘tubed’ bike. I run tubeless. If I get a puncture that won’t seal I simply put in a spare tube and pump it up with my pump. Same equipment I carried when running tubes. 

[Author]

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