[David9694]

Anyone noticed??

(The Times 4/12/21)

Topic

[Simon E]

kil0ran wrote:

kil0ran wrote:

For the urban or rural poor none of this is really an option, and that’s why petrol prices are a barrier to social mobility

Fuel price is only part of it. Genuinely poor people struggle to afford to buy a single car and pay for VED and insurance, never mind the fuel and cost of servicing/repairs.

It may be stating the obvious, but old cars usually need more attention. I’ve been running older cars all my working life, I’ve never paid more than £2k for one. But while the initial cost is relatively low and depreciation is negligible, visits to the garage are more frequent and the likely extra cost (and inconvenience) should be factored into your calculations.

While the price of electricity will go up I anticipate that the cost of fossil fuels will rise by a greater amount in time. The rate of increase is anyone’s guess – unless the Green party wins an election the government will continue to support and subsidise the fossil fuel industry in order to remain in power. Climate change can be someone else’s problem, they’ll promise to plant a few trees (while chopping down an even greater number for biomass and yet another bypass/ring road).

If I was in your position I would seriously consider an EV and do my utmost to avoid a petrol or diesel vehicle.

A serious suggestion: leave the car near the school during the day and use a bike to get around in the meantime. It would halve the mileage.

[Chris Hayes]

Indeed, especially when all

Indeed, especially when all it takes to set up an electricity company in the UK is a kitchen table, a laptop, the internet, and £25 to set up a company…. The electricity regulator is a joke.  

I suspect that EVs are viable until everyone wants one.

[HoarseMann]

I wouldn’t bank on cheap off

I wouldn’t bank on cheap off-peak electricity, especially if your supplier goes bust or contract needs renewing…

[TheBillder]

My sister has a secondhand
My sister has a secondhand Leaf (old shape) and it’s excellent. Range is only 80 miles in winter but she has access to a petrol car if needed. I’ve driven it and it’s really good – the acceleration off the line is quite a surprise. Lots of practical touches. If I could charge one at home, I’d get one.

[Hirsute]

WWII mortar !

WWII mortar !

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bomb-squad-called-gloucestershire-royal-6298076

 

[mdavidford]

hawkinspeter wrote:

wycombewheeler wrote:

never pick up a used leaf in the woods, unless you are sure what it has been used for

Reminds me of the story of a man who presented himself at A&E complaining of severe abdominal pain. They examined him and found a lettuce leaf sticking out of his anus.

“This will only take a second to remove” says the nurse.

“That’s just the tip of the iceberg” explains the man

Could have been worse – he could have had a rocket up there.

[chrisonabike]

ktache wrote:

40 years ago you say…

Might there have been a change politically at that time, maybe a whole new ideology…

You mean the leadership of Neil Kinnock?

[hawkinspeter]

wycombewheeler wrote:

never pick up a used leaf in the woods, unless you are sure what it has been used for

Reminds me of the story of a man who presented himself at A&E complaining of severe abdominal pain. They examined him and found a lettuce leaf sticking out of his anus.

“This will only take a second to remove” says the nurse.

“That’s just the tip of the iceberg” explains the man

[wycombewheeler]

andystow wrote:

We managed to pick up a used  Leaf

never pick up a used leaf in the woods, unless you are sure what it has been used for

[andystow]

We managed to pick up a used

We managed to pick up a used 2015 Leaf a couple of years ago when they were very cheap in the US. I think we paid about $11000 (~£8300.) It meets her needs and drives like a very nice car, with more than adequate acceleration and quite good handling despite its heft. It’s also quite spacious, easily taking my bicycle in the back with the seats folded down. The maintenance costs so far have been negligible: basically tyres and wipers. So far at around 80k miles it’s down one bar (out of 14?) on the battery capacity display.

The only downside is any long trips have to be done in my convertible MINI, which I love but which can be cramped with four occupants and luggage, or the two of us plus a medium dog.

[chrisonabike]

Jetmans Dad wrote:

David9694 wrote:

Trying to think what has made public transport so poor over the past 40 years.

Can other readers help? 

Public transport is no longer publicly owned, therefore has to make a profit, therefore non-profitable routes are simply shut down because there is no requirement that an alternative be in place. 

The school where I teach covers a massive catchment area of mostly small  rural villages and agricultural land, and some of the village have precisely one bus per day that can get the kids to school. Miss it and you are doomed to an unauthorised absence for the day. 

Reason … the bus company gets enough passengers to make a profit on the route by running one bus each way per day and forcing everyone to use it regardless of how convenient (or otherwise) it is. 

All of this. Things do get complicated because in some cases there are agreements on certain service levels with local authorities I believe.  Not that those are necessarily transparent or always in a particular local population’s interest of course. In certain areas there is also the fallout of corporate fights e.g. the tactics of taking on services / predatory pricing simply to put other companies out of business or drive them off – see Darlington Bus War.

[brooksby]

Jetmans Dad wrote:

David9694 wrote:

Trying to think what has made public transport so poor over the past 40 years.

Can other readers help? 

Public transport is no longer publicly owned, therefore has to make a profit, therefore non-profitable routes are simply shut down because there is no requirement that an alternative be in place. 

Ah yes, because if you privatise all the buses then you allow ‘competition’ and ‘the market’ and everything will get cheaper and more efficient.

You definitely won’t just be creating a local monopoly for a particular private company…

[Jetmans Dad]

David9694 wrote:

Trying to think what has made public transport so poor over the past 40 years.

Can other readers help? 

Public transport is no longer publicly owned, therefore has to make a profit, therefore non-profitable routes are simply shut down because there is no requirement that an alternative be in place. 

The school where I teach covers a massive catchment area of mostly small  rural villages and agricultural land, and some of the village have precisely one bus per day that can get the kids to school. Miss it and you are doomed to an unauthorised absence for the day. 

Reason … the bus company gets enough passengers to make a profit on the route by running one bus each way per day and forcing everyone to use it regardless of how convenient (or otherwise) it is. 

[kil0ran]

I need to replace the car we

I need to replace the car we use for the school run – 32 miles per day, around 8000 miles per year and I’ve been pricing up the options.

Firstly, if there was safe infrastructure our 12yo could easily cycle to school. It’s about 8 miles and absolutely flat. But both routes feature 50mph traffic and plenty of tippers (quarries near here), no pavements, and no cycle lanes so that’s a non-starter. 

So we’re looking for a city car and have a capital budget of around £5k. Monthly lease is an option too. So, what are the options:

15yo diesel (Golf TDI) – £113 per month

Similar petrol car – £150 per month

Nissan Leaf used electric car – £125 per month

VW e-Up! electric car – £200 per month lease/contract hire (no ownership option)

All the above combined capital and running costs (fuel/tax) are averaged over a 5 year term and other than the new lease option don’t include servicing. Being over 50 insurance is basically the same for all options although EVs still include a small premium. EV costs include installation of wall charger and assume it’s possible to still get cheap rate overnight charging tariffs (about 6p per kWh vs current price of around 35p/kWh.

Overall a used EV makes sense, but (and this is the crucial point) we have secure off-road parking to charge it overnight and can afford the capital outlay. EVs are more reliable than ICEVs, particularly 15yo ICEVs. The other big thing in our favour is that we have another car for longer journeys and that means we’ll never need to rapid charge an EV. Rapid charging absolutely knackers EV batteries, particularly those of the mid-’10s technology era which is all we can afford used. That old positive ICE advert term “high miles but mostly motorway” is a bad thing if you’re buying a used EV.

Whilst it’s reasonable to assume petrol prices will continue to rise, and that diesels will be effectively banned way before 2030 (cities can price them off the road if they choose) what we don’t know is what’s going to happen to electric prices as demand increases. If everyone buys an EV and charges it overnight from grid power it’s no longer cheap capacity is it?

For the urban or rural poor none of this is really an option, and that’s why petrol prices are a barrier to social mobility. It’s OK if you live in a big city with half decent buses but round here a travel card is £25 per week and that’s for buses which run every half hour. So, that’s about £110 per month, or the price of buying and running a 15yo diesel. And so, we’re back where we started. 

[ktache]

40 years ago you say…

40 years ago you say…

Might there have been a change politically at that time, maybe a whole new ideology…

[Author]

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