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daddyELVIS.
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August 24, 2012 at 1:45 pm #16654
Gkam84
So the news story has hit over 50 comments. So I thought i’d bring this to the forums and see what people’s opinion’s are.
Here is a list of how the winners would look if Lance is struck from the records.
1999 Alex Zulle (after coming back from the Festina saga)
2000 Jan Ullrich (known doper but only d/q’d from 2005 onwards)
2001 Jan Ullrich
2002 Joseba Beloki (implicated in Puerto but cleared)
2003 Jan Ullrich
2004 Andreas Kloden (caught in 2006 tour)
2005 Ivan Basso (another one implicated in Puerto) -
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bashthebox
Sideburn, the evidence is
Sideburn, the evidence is coming. The case isn’t solely about Armstrong, it’ll have to go through due legal process for all the others too before everything comes to light.
It’s hardly secret evidence – I’m not going to dignify your quote marks – it’s mainly overwhelming witness testimony by the sounds of it.Incidentally, anyone heard the rumours on the grapevine this evening? Apparently a positive blood test has been dug up for Armstrong. All will be revealed tomorrow, say the tweets.
antonio
I think McQuaid is in for an
I think McQuaid is in for an uncomfortable time, in the comic he says they,UCI, are not afraid to sanction.SideBurn
Bashthebox; what evidence? I
Bashthebox; what evidence? I have followed this closely, all I have seen is the USADA; claiming to have ‘overwhelming’ and ‘secret’ evidence. Did we not invade Iraq on ‘overwhelming’ and ‘secret’ evidence of weapons of mass destruction. Google “September dossier” and remember that Dr David Kelly killed himself when he found what “they” had done with “his” evidence. But to date these weapons have proved mighty elusive… Keep an open mind…Adey
I personally find the whole
I personally find the whole saga/episode very sad
Having read Lance’s book and (hopefully) beaten the dreaded ‘C’ myself i found his book very inspiring
I dunno – perhaps i /we feel ‘cheated’ for believing so strongly in the guy
SadSideburn: He’s guilty. USADA
Sideburn: He’s guilty. USADA had so much evidence there was no way he could fight them. He ran away from the case because it was the only possible way to save just a tiny bit of face.Lance, the brand, is going to lose millions now. His charity will be badly affected in the long term. If he was innocent, he’d have fought the case all the way.
And Stumpy, it has nothing to do with ego. Lance isn’t the only one involved here. It’s also about Brunyeel, Pedro Celaya, Pepe Marti, Michele Ferrari and Luis Garcia del Moral. All of these people are still involved in the sport. There’s apparently evidence that points to Armstrong doping during his comeback – that’s 2009 to 2011, not exactly in the distant past.
We want a clean sport. So we must demand that those who have cheated come clean, or face the consequences. Otherwise, how the fuck does anyone learn?
Stumps
Personally i couldn’t give a
Personally i couldn’t give a stuff if he is innocent or guilty because the whole episode has dragged a sport / pastime i love through the dirt just to please one mans ego and cast doubts over a number of riders.I hope it all ends soon and we can get on with watching 99% + clean riders.
Bashthebox; you seem very
Bashthebox; you seem very sure that Lance is guilty. I am no fan of Lance; reading his book gave me an insight into his dark mind that I did not like. But indulge me; look up the case of John Christie and Timothy Evans. Yes I am being over dramatic but this is an excellent case of an innocent person (Evans) being convicted because he was so obviously guilty that people failed to do their jobs properly. One of the people allowed to testify against Evans was Christie himself…. Keep an open mind.It’s such a complex and
It’s such a complex and thorny issue. The debate will rage for a long time I think.A big cornerstone of it for me is this: The assertion that if everyone dopes, then it’s a level playing field. It’s wheeled out by those Lance supporters who aren’t naive enough to think he didn’t dope, but still can’t let go of his legend.
Doping doesn’t create a level playing field, at all, and there are again many sides to this.
– Not everyone reacts to drugs in the same way. An aspirin for me might get rid of my headache, but you might still be in agony after half a packet. In the same way, if any of you lot were like me in my wilder days, you’ll know that an E can keep one person going for 12 hours of constant dancing whilst another will be passed out in the corner within a couple of hours. Although that might be something to do with whatever else that person ingested, which brings me neatly on to…
– Not everyone has the same access to chemists, doctors and drugs. Because they don’t come cheap, do they? With constant medical supervision, you can manipulate your blood levels such that you never fail a test. Micro dosing will mean your urine never returns a positive result. Armstrong’s blood tests are apparently a consistently high plateau, not showing the peaks and troughs that are supposedly indicative of a doper… but this instead suggests that Armstrong was doping all the fucking time. That means he could train harder, for longer, every day of every week. Remember that rubbish Bond film with Begbie, who had a bullet in his brain so he couldn’t feel any pain? And then Pierce Brosnan killed him with a giant golden phallus? It’s just like that.
What was I talking about again?
– Armstrong was massive for the sport. MASSIVE. He opened up the hugely lucrative US market to the UCI in a big way. TV money, sponsorship, etc. If he failed his drugs tests, if he was ever stupid enough to allow himself to fail one (and as we know from various chemists talking openly about it, Victor Conte being the notable voice) it’s only the dumb and the really dumb who get caught. But if ever he was to fail, the UCI would have been out by millions of dollars.
– Armstrong is a dick. A litigious, nasty, bullying dick. Who also happened to beat cancer and inspire millions, bringing hope to many and helping raise money to help other cancer sufferers. Which he may well have done to boost PR image and hence raise more sponsorship money, but fuck it. He’s done good too.Black and white it isn’t, but USADA is right to chase him, and more importantly those still working in the sport, and bring them down. The irony that doping is the cancer eating away at sport surely isn’t lost on anyone.
I’m confused by it aswell.
I’m confused by it aswell. The UCI still seem to think they have the right to decide on this and are still waiting on the evidence.From what I understand. The UCI will get the evidence when USADA finish with all the rest of the guys they are investigating?
Armstrong says he is innocent and that only the sport’s governing body, the International Cycling Union (UCI), has the power to sanction him.With the UCI giving the impression that it agrees with Armstrong, Usada is under pressure to provide more details of its case.
The BBC understands Usada would have done so already but for two reasons:
Armstrong was charged along with three doctors, a coach, and US Postal team manager Johan Bruyneel in June – and proceedings are continuing against three of them;
The agency has been concerned that its witnesses have to be protected from outside influence.didds
If the UCI “has” to follow
If the UCI “has” to follow USADA… then why haven#t they?confused…
zanf
dave_atkinson wrote:daloriana
dave_atkinson wrote:daloriana wrote:Surely the greater debate is why cycling catches/has so many dopers.cycling has so many dopers because doping is an extremely effective way of cheating, much more so than in many other sports. and it has the most active anti-doping controls too, inadequate though they still may be
[url=http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/p/the-case-against-tennis.html]Tennis is known to have dopers but incredibly lax controls.[/url] It lends itelf more to steroids than EPO. Its a running joke that Raphael Nadir has reoccurring injuries and retires from tournaments to avoid controls.
Athletics has been riddled with doping for years. [url=http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=412846]This interview with Angel Herida[/url] is an interesting insight to how they avoid positive test results.
And this is before even talking about American Football and the amount of ‘juicing’ that goes on there.
_Karlos_
I think we should just let it
I think we should just let it lie, just about every winner until a few years ago probably doped.Let’s just look forward, leave Armstrong alone and move on. It’s positive that the sport has cleaned up in the last couple of years, mostly.
There was some expert on R4 this morning saying that power outputs of riders were down in the last couple of years, and that they are struggling on mountains that they used to fly up.You don’t need me to tell you why!
spongebob
I would be very nervous.
I
I would be very nervous.I also think that the blood passport may have some pro’s in a cycle of they are damned if they stop cheating and only risk being caught by continuing doping (F Schleck perhaps?).
Apres-mapk
After reading all this about
After reading all this about Lance ,should any other rider who has won a major tour be nervous?
What do you think?Ah right, thats how it
Ah right, thats how it worked. I though they only had the power over America.I’m still the winner of 99 đŸ‘¿
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