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Armstrong saga

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  • August 24, 2012 at 1:45 pm #16654
    Gkam84

    So the news story has hit over 50 comments. So I thought i’d bring this to the forums and see what people’s opinion’s are.

    Here is a list of how the winners would look if Lance is struck from the records.

    1999 Alex Zulle (after coming back from the Festina saga)
    2000 Jan Ullrich (known doper but only d/q’d from 2005 onwards)
    2001 Jan Ullrich
    2002 Joseba Beloki (implicated in Puerto but cleared)
    2003 Jan Ullrich
    2004 Andreas Kloden (caught in 2006 tour)
    2005 Ivan Basso (another one implicated in Puerto)

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  • August 24, 2012 at 11:03 pm #696959
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    dave atkinson

    Gkam84 wrote:So who as the

    Gkam84 wrote:
    So who as the authority to declare his TdF’s results null?

    USADA doesn’t

    yes they do, under the world anti doping code. the uci is bound to honour their recommendation to remove the titles as the uci has signed the anti doping code

    August 24, 2012 at 10:29 pm #696957
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    Gkam84

    So who as the authority to
    So who as the authority to declare his TdF’s results null?

    USADA doesn’t WADA might and ASO should have đŸ˜•

    Anyway. I’m claiming the 1999 result, because I was clean and only 15, I was the youngest winner and I’ll set new records đŸ‘¿

    August 24, 2012 at 7:20 pm #696955
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    tommygarland

    The fact that armstrong left
    The fact that armstrong left it so long to get checked for cancer indicates that he might have been used to his body doing weird things after the amount of drugs he was putting into himself potentially?

    Either way I think the best way to look at the results would be to do what happens with results from many years ago. They stand, but really it only shows who was the best doper not necessarily the best cyclist. Think it is important to bear that in mind, the greatest question is what validity can any race have if a whole team is doping and getting away with it till now? Who else was doping within the peleton and passing ‘controls’? Im sure many others would use the argument that Armstrong is using that he never failed any controls at the time.

    The best thing to do without a doubt is only to look to the future with increased controls, fewer cheats and more importantly a return to ‘realistic’ watts/kilo and VAM, for the pros at least!?

    August 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm #696953
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    mattbibbings

    The trouble here is we are
    The trouble here is we are talking about a transitional time period in the relationship between road cycling and doping. It is a fair sure bet that anyone that won a grand tour in the 90’s was in some way implicated in drug-based cheating. It’s pretty hard to argue otherwise. These days the Pro peloton is a place where a hell of a lot of guys have aired their sins and now ride as reformed characters (enter Millar.D). Pro cycling has gone a long way towards getting it’s act together over drug use and it has been going through that process all the while Mr Armstrong has been ticking off tour wins.

    On reflection, what we all witnessed in the late 80’s and the 90’s is what some people have long called for – that is to say a dirty, level playing field where everyone uses performance enhancing drugs. It’s just that no one admitted it at the time. That said, if Armstrong did cheat, then he only beat other cheats. If we can accept that then we need to draw a line under the whole sorry episode and allow ourselves to think that the results would have been the same if everyone was clean.

    August 24, 2012 at 3:22 pm #696951
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    djb123

    NeilG83 wrote:I cannot decide

    NeilG83 wrote:
    I cannot decide whether it would be best just to put an asterix next to these years and move on

    Surely this is the only real option. Taking 2003 for instance (first TDF I watched), to get away from proven dopers one would have to go back to 5th with Haimar Zubeldia. It would make a mockery of the whole race and become an exercise in “Who didn’t get caught this year then”

    August 24, 2012 at 2:58 pm #696949
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    dave atkinson

    daloriana wrote:Surely the

    daloriana wrote:
    Surely the greater debate is why cycling catches/has so many dopers.

    cycling has so many dopers because doping is an extremely effective way of cheating, much more so than in many other sports. and it has the most active anti-doping controls too, inadequate though they still may be

    August 24, 2012 at 2:46 pm #696947
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    NeilG83

    I cannot decide whether it
    I cannot decide whether it would be best just to put an asterix next to these years and move on, but I would like the highest placed clean rider get the recognition they deserve, but it is unlikely we will ever find out who that was.
    Whilst the riders you have listed are tainted it does not mean that they were doping during those years. You cannot not DQ them just because they served a ban at some point. For example Contador would be a valid winner of this years Vuelta even though he has served a ban, similarly his pre 2010 results stand.
    I’m sure that anyone who inherits Armstrong’s titles will be investigated by the media, meaning that era of cycling will be in the news for a long time to come.

    August 24, 2012 at 2:39 pm #696945
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    Gkam84

    The only other thing, IF he
    The only other thing, IF he is proved to have been doping. I’d like to know how and what was used. Then see if that had any link to causing his cancer…… đŸ˜•

    August 24, 2012 at 2:30 pm #696943
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    Gkam84

    Cyclist has a much tighter
    Cyclist has a much tighter control system over testing and also the bio passports make it alot easier for riders to be caught.

    It is also one of the few sports with is almost totally honest. We know there are footballers out there who take things all the time. Its been proved. But they never get anything done about it.

    I’d like to think that 99% of the riders are now clean, but then again, there are still ways to dope that cannot be caught at the moment. Certain blood doping is undetectable. So its NEVER going to be a clean sport, but the majority are clean I think.

    August 24, 2012 at 2:25 pm #696941
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    daloriana

    No winners in this saga, the
    No winners in this saga, the ONLY hope is that the peleton’s current dopers see this as a deterrent. Other than that its difficult to see anything positive from this latest twist.

    Surely the greater debate is why cycling catches/has so many dopers.

    If cycling (as a sport) inflicts lots more suffering than all the other (relatively) clean sports, this would explain it to me. If not, then cycling is the ONLY sport being honest with itself.

    The latter is some kind of positive too, I suppose.

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