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Rapha not happy with Torm

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  • January 25, 2011 at 9:48 am #13040
    11speedaddict

    Has anyone else been in touch with Torm clothing ? i noticed their website showing”o ut of stock” on all items so i did some snooping. I believe Rapha are squeezing them legally so to speak.
    i think this is disgraceful. However you look at it Torm is less than half the price for very similiar quality jerseys. I know some rapha fans dont agree with Torm but thats only because feel foolish spending so much more on identical jerseys. I have owned both brands and i wouldnt buy rapha again over torm BUT now I certainly will not buy rapha if this is how they act to competitors.
    are they trademarking the stripe across the arm / front.
    Its effectively bullying and more importantly its stopping people like me buying reasonably priced jerseys. What are Rapha saying ” you pay our prices or take a hike” outrageous.
    I wouldnt mind but by nature Rapha is retro through and through. their designs hark back to previous decades designs.
    Anyone else feel the same way ? any Torm owners out there feel Rapha are dictating prices here ?

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  • January 26, 2011 at 9:47 am #640097
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    11speedaddict

    Sorry Tony about the team kit
    Sorry Tony about the team kit inaccuracy – i stand corrected.
    a few years back they were lycra and i was going on that.
    its official – i’m an idiot.
    I have heard that Torm have had to slightly redesign the rear of their jerseys. hopefully rapha will be happy and torm can start selling again.
    imitation is the best form of flattery. 😀

    January 26, 2011 at 9:11 am #640095
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    Tony Farrelly

    Not to start things all off
    Not to start things all off again, but re one of 11speedaddict’s points above, I’ve been very reliably informed that the Rapha Condor team’s jerseys ARE Sportwool and that they certainly wear them.

    January 25, 2011 at 11:54 pm #640093
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    Ramott

    Regarding ripping off and
    Regarding ripping off and passing off. In October 2009, Rapha was selling rip off Barbour gentleman’s caps. Green wax cotton, cord under peak, Barbour tartan lining. The Barbour logo font, was parodied, and the Royal warrants faked. Blatantly illegal; should Barbour want to pursue the matter they would win. In this case, it is not ‘inspired by,’ it is copyright theft, and counterfeiting. In June 2009 they were also selling legend T-shirts. These involved rip off designs from licensed branding, including; Santai, Mapei and Renault elf. They are not a ‘cheeky homage,’ as stated on bike radar, they are cases of unlicensed copyright infringement. If Tørm were being legally pressured, they could counter by informing Barbour and Santini. Also, as a final point, under trademark and apparel laws, Rapha of course, cannot own rights to that stripe, colourways, or the asymmetrical zip of the garment . *Nobody likes a bully*.

    January 25, 2011 at 10:13 pm #640091
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    Simon E

    abudhabiChris wrote:Didn’t

    abudhabiChris wrote:
    Didn’t Rapha recently unveil a tube of material which goes around your neck to keep it warm ?

    The [url=http://road.cc/content/review/29991-rapha-winter-collar]Winter Collar[/url]? The folks at Buff must be apoplectic! X(

    If Torm are under pressure from Rapha’s lawyers (or just a loud bloke hassling them by ‘phone) over copying a design that was less than original itself we’ll find out soon enough. Otherwise I’d not lose any sleep over it.

    If you like Rapha and can afford it (lucky you) then buy it. If you can’t or won’t then buy Torm, or any of the other perfectly acceptable clothing brands. The market is awash with decent clothing of many hues and styles and at varied prices – we’ve never had such choice!

    January 25, 2011 at 10:11 pm #640089
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    aloadofpants

    I want to buy some Torm.
    I want to buy some Torm. Does anyone know if I can actually order via phone instead?

    January 25, 2011 at 5:31 pm #640087
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    cat1commuter

    I like the design of the Torm
    I like the design of the [url=http://road.cc/content/review/26890-torm-t1-jersey]Torm T1 Jersey[/url], but to me their [url=http://road.cc/content/review/26827-torm-t6-jersey]T6 Jersey[/url] with its pointless bands of material [b]in the same colour[/b] on the sleeves, plus the rear pockets with ring pull zips and inset reflective panel, shouts “Rapha knock-off” to me. The only thing different about the T6 is that it is symmetrical, as opposed to Rapha’s asymmetry.

    January 25, 2011 at 4:34 pm #640085
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    simonmb

    I’d love to see it finally
    I’d love to see it finally tested in court. Then we will only have their prices to complain about.

    January 25, 2011 at 4:00 pm #640083
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    KirinChris

    Didn’t Rapha recently unveil
    Didn’t Rapha recently unveil a tube of material which goes around your neck to keep it warm ?

    I’ve always bought Rapha stuff despite it being Rapha. Love the product, hate the producer you might say. I have a hat, arm-warmers, lightweight jersey and softshell.

    If true though this may be enough to make me stop.

    As Howie’s said, nobody likes a bully.

    January 25, 2011 at 2:55 pm #640081
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    dave atkinson

    reminds me (a little bit) of
    reminds me (a little bit) of [url=http://www.howies.co.uk/content.php?xId=127&xPg=1]this[/url] – maybe we need a bit of humour in the situation? 🙂

    Guess I should add that I’m not on anyone’s side either 😐

    January 25, 2011 at 2:44 pm #640079
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    step-hent

    Interesting stuff. A few
    Interesting stuff. A few observations:

    – it is only ‘passing off’ if there is a likelihood of confusion on the part of the consumer. For various reasons (the low prices, the references to other higher priced brands and the press coverage of Torm), confusion is unlikely. Making something which looks quite a lot like something else is not enough to prove passing off.

    – although none of Rapha’s design elements are unique/original, they might have a claim that the combination of them is protected/protectable using design rights.

    – regardless of the above, it is unsurprising that Rapha is trying to protect the value of its product by challenging the competition when they bring out similar designs. Although it might seem like Rapha are ‘bullying’ Torm, this is a normal tactic for a company that bases its value on its design and brand, and Torm should have anticipated that (and they might have done). Failing to challenge similar products can result in an erosion of the brand and reduction in the value of the business. Rapha has built a very nice business – why would they let a competitor take part of it without a challenge?

    With all that said, speaking as a consumer, I like both companies’ products and would like to see them both doing what they do well (making nice cycling jerseys) rather than litigating. My suggestion to Torm would be that they try and be just a touch more creative in their design – like the twin stripe jersey they do – to avoid any allegations of copying and to allow them to focus on building a business rather than defending themselves.

    January 25, 2011 at 1:43 pm #640077
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    11speedaddict

    I have a friend who is a
    I have a friend who is a skunk. he is currently seeking legal advice over Rapha s black & white Gilet.
    check out rapha s Campionissimo shirt ? similiar anyone ?
    rapha hampsten gavia “tribute” shirt – maybe they paid 7-Eleven for the right to use logos – maybe not.
    as i say – Torm do plain shirts – that cannot be copying. as for ring zip pulls – for christ sake – no one owns the right to that do they ?
    A good while back someone ( i dont know who) moved the pockets on jerseys from front to the rear. Are all jersey manufacturers ripping them off. silicon at the hem ? locking zip pulls ?/ zipped pockets. Its progress / fashionable – whatever.
    as far as i’m aware rapha were one of the 1st -if not the 1st to have off centre zips on their jackets – good idea – I have a Endura Helium rain cape thing with offset zip. Is this a legal case ?

    January 25, 2011 at 1:10 pm #640075
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    james-o

    “are they trademarking the
    “are they trademarking the stripe across the arm / front”

    potentially you could have done easily a long time ago, but it may be difficult after 40-odd years of cycling jerseys using this style.. someone may be able to TM an element of the classic panel jersey design in the way that Addidas have the 3-stripe iodentity, but you’d need to show that it was a look that was central to your company’s identity rather than cycling style in general.

    out and out duplication of a brand’s look / product layout etc is considered to be ‘passing off’ and there is a right to take issue if that happens. if 2 brands have identical looking items, the originator isn’t bullying anyone if they force them to stop – stopping as in change the look to be less similar.

    January 25, 2011 at 12:41 pm #640073
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    VecchioJo

    i’m no legal expert but i
    i’m no legal expert but i guess, if true, that the issue is with the “identical jerseys” bit in terms of looks, the cost isn’t relevant, no matter how much people want it to be

    January 25, 2011 at 12:18 pm #640071
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    James Warrener

    I’m with you Tone… I’m out
    I’m with you Tone… I’m out !

    January 25, 2011 at 11:51 am #640069
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    11speedaddict

    Hi tony
    for legal reasons i
    Hi tony
    for legal reasons i cannot say how i know but they are not sold out.and BTW i am not associated with Torm, just a satisfied customer.
    in response to your reply- OK classic and retro are similiar meaning. No ones putting pressure on Columba or shutt. not that different in technical design. I’m sure if Torm removed the band around the arm / front (and redesigned their website) Rapha still wont be happy because its down to price. bear in mind Torm do plain jerseys – how can that be copying ?
    the pricing shows up Rapha for being way way overpriced on their jerseys. some of the rapha items are unique to them so its hard to to do a comparison ie the softshell, but what Torm have done is made that comparison.
    Shutt as far as i’m aware manufacture in the UK so don’t get the benefit of cheaper far east labour costs and still retail far cheaper than Rapha.
    I’m not anti rapha – i own the classic softshell which is fantastic – but i’m led to believe competition is good and this kind of behaviour is only going to lose custom. there is already a cyclists against rapha contingent and this is not gonna help.
    Rapha fans say their jerseys are superior but really Tony you’ve tested both brands and its negligible.
    Rapha are just pi**ed off
    torm – 2 x sportswool jerseys + sportswool base layer =£115
    Rapha – 1 jersey =£115
    Also while i’m having a rant- anyone know why Rapha s race team dont wear the sportswool jerseys ? beacuse they are too hot for most “hard” riding”. why i never see club riders wearing them in the summer (unless you use their lighteight jersey which is 3/4 polyester)….
    Discuss…..

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