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Issues with Evans Cycles and my Pinnacle bike

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  • May 3, 2018 at 8:54 am #28471
    ClubSmed

    In October 2015 I purchased a Pinnacle Arkose 3 from Evans Cycles and have been immensely impressed with both it and the Evans service, until a few weeks ago.

    Whilst cycling home, without warning, the rear hanger snapped and sent the rear derailleur through the spokes of the rear wheel. As there was nothing I could do at the scene I was forced to push my bike the remaining miles of the journey. When back, the first thing I did was get online and order a new rear hanger (I already had a spare derailleur so this was not an issue).

    A few days later the hanger arrived in store and I picked it up so that I could fix the bike and continue my daily commute by bike. Upon return home with the supplied hanger however, I discovered that it did not fit my bike! I checked the code on the side (BGRD-4) and it was correct but the hanger did not match shape of the broken one or the image on the Evans website.

    I contacted Evans online for assistance in this matter as I was very confused to say the least. After a lot of back messages and images sent and forth over several days (and being forced to commute by train) I finally got the correct hanger.

    More poignantly, I learnt during this time that:

    • In 2011 Evans changed the shape of the BGRD-4 to the one I had
    • The old shape then became BGRD-1
    • I had somehow received old (pre 2012) stock of the BGRD-4
    • The BGRD-4 had been recalled in December 2015
    • The replacement hanger was BGRD-4. (full stop at the end)

    This means that the hanger breaking was possibly not just a freak accident but a flaw in the item itself!

    The email for the recall had slipped through the cracks and escaped my notice, however in May 2016 my bike was booked into an Evans Cycles store for a “Silver Service”. I believe that as part of this service the recalled hanger should have been identified and replaced, Evans are of the opinion that as “The Silver Service that you booked was five months after the recall. This would not have been looked at“.

     

    I believe that it does not matter if it is 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months or 5 years. If the item that they sold me was defective and they had the opportunity to resolve this then they should have done. As they did not I think that they should compensate me for the damage to the derailleur and wheel but I seem to be getting nowhere.

     

    Am I wrong, should I just accept that it was my fault for not seeing the recall notice within a period of less than 5 months?

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  • May 10, 2018 at 2:15 pm #918771
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    hawkinspeter

    @ClubSmed – thanks for the

    @ClubSmed – thanks for the update. I, for one, will be keeping my distance from Evans if they treat customers like that.

    May 10, 2018 at 1:59 pm #918769
    0
    ClubSmed

    Update 2

    Update 2

    Evans Cycles have said that they are not interested in looking into how I was supplied with incorrect stock from over 6 years ago and are only interested in giving me a “gesture of goodwill” to close the matter.

    Here is a brief history of the hanger in question:

    • 2012 – Evans Cycles changes the design/shape of the Arkose hanger part number BGRD-4. The old style becomes BGRD-1 and the new style is the new BGRD-4
    • 2015 – Evans Cycles issues a recall on the BGRD-4 and replaces them with the BGRD-4. (with the full stop)
    • 2018 – I order the BGRD-4 from the Evans Cycles website but instead receive an original BGRD-4 (new BGRD-1) that was retired as the BGRD-4 in 2012 (complete with the old style pinnacle logo)

    Here is what happened after the complaint was escalated:

    Evans Cycles Customer Relations Executive initially blamed me for ordering the wrong part

    I referred them back to me web order history that showed that I did not and asked that the look in to the process so that this did not happen again

    Evans Cycles Customer Relations Executive then blamed the website for having the wrong image as the page had not had the image updated since the model was updated (?)

    I pointed out that this could only have been a feasible explanation if I had wanted the old model and accidentally ordered the new one. Either way, I referred them to the internet archive to show that the image on the site was the same previously as it is now, which is an image of the item I needed and ordered.

    Evans Cycles Customer Relations Executive then stated that the information they had was correct (despite all evidence to the contrary) and that they would not engage in any further communication to try and resolve issues with their ordering and fulfilment processes.

     

    May 9, 2018 at 2:00 pm #918767
    0
    ClubSmed

    Update

    Update

    Evans Cycles responded to my complaint recognising that an alert of recall issues could be a good element to put in the process going forward and offering me a gesture of goodwill.

    However,

    They also accused me of ordering the wrong part which sparked all the off to begin with. This is clearly not the case as can be seen in my order history but they have been unwilling to recognise this or apologise.

    As a result I was ranting about this last night to my other half who reminded me that I did have a wheel slip issue last year which resulted in me coming off and has left me with scaring at the top of my right thigh. So what could have easily have just been resolved by not trying to accuse me of ordering the wrong part or a following apology from them may have to resort in me taking further action.

    May 4, 2018 at 10:03 am #918765
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    ClubSmed
    Canyon48 wrote:
    ClubSmed wrote:
    The Gavalier wrote:
    Rich_cb wrote:
    Canyon48 wrote:

    Mech hangers are designed as sacrificial components, they fail in order to prevent damage to the frame. Damage from a mech hanger failing is really bad luck.

    https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/blog/gear-hangers-break/

    Well I didn’t know they could break from poor gear selection, you learn something every day! I still think that if there was a known fault with that component and it failed causing damage then you’d have a case under the Consumer Rights Act.

    As Canyon48 said though, the recall was nothing to do with the hangers failing, it was to do with potential wheel slippage in the dropout. If his wheel had come out then yes, there’s a claim to be made, but a hanger breaking (at the point they’re designed to) has nothing to do with the purpose of the recall. 

     

    As I have not yet had any apology, just them trying to blame me, I am going to annoy them with a claim until something happens

    Also saw you mentioned that you have to go through Evans because of C2W.

    Fully with you now, really seems like you’ve had the rubbish end of the stick and Evans customer service has been woeful (funnily enough, my experience has been similar).

    I trust you’ve left a review on google?

    Twitter is often a fairly good place to try and get some sort of a response from rubbish customer service.

    I have not taken to Google or Twitter yet but I have just received an email from Evans Cycles stating:

    “Due to the nature of your complaint, your case has been escalated to a member of our Customer Relations Team for further investigation”

    They say that I should hear back within 7 business days so I shall wait and see what happens before doing anthing more I think.

    May 4, 2018 at 8:58 am #918763
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    Canyon48
    ClubSmed wrote:
    The Gavalier wrote:
    Rich_cb wrote:
    Canyon48 wrote:

    Mech hangers are designed as sacrificial components, they fail in order to prevent damage to the frame. Damage from a mech hanger failing is really bad luck.

    https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/blog/gear-hangers-break/

    Well I didn’t know they could break from poor gear selection, you learn something every day! I still think that if there was a known fault with that component and it failed causing damage then you’d have a case under the Consumer Rights Act.

    As Canyon48 said though, the recall was nothing to do with the hangers failing, it was to do with potential wheel slippage in the dropout. If his wheel had come out then yes, there’s a claim to be made, but a hanger breaking (at the point they’re designed to) has nothing to do with the purpose of the recall. 

     

    As I have not yet had any apology, just them trying to blame me, I am going to annoy them with a claim until something happens

    Also saw you mentioned that you have to go through Evans because of C2W.

    Fully with you now, really seems like you’ve had the rubbish end of the stick and Evans customer service has been woeful (funnily enough, my experience has been similar).

    I trust you’ve left a review on google?

    Twitter is often a fairly good place to try and get some sort of a response from rubbish customer service.

    May 4, 2018 at 8:42 am #918761
    0
    ClubSmed
    The Gavalier wrote:
    Rich_cb wrote:
    Canyon48 wrote:

    Mech hangers are designed as sacrificial components, they fail in order to prevent damage to the frame. Damage from a mech hanger failing is really bad luck.

    https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/blog/gear-hangers-break/

    Well I didn’t know they could break from poor gear selection, you learn something every day! I still think that if there was a known fault with that component and it failed causing damage then you’d have a case under the Consumer Rights Act.

    As Canyon48 said though, the recall was nothing to do with the hangers failing, it was to do with potential wheel slippage in the dropout. If his wheel had come out then yes, there’s a claim to be made, but a hanger breaking (at the point they’re designed to) has nothing to do with the purpose of the recall. 

    The hanger may have failed in exactly the way it is supposed to so I may not be entitled to any compensation for damage resulting from this.

    I do believe however that I am entitled to an apology from Evans Cycles for their failure to replace the recalled item on the own brand bike whilst servicing it in store within 6 months of the recall.

    The hanger may not have failed in the way that the recall was enacted for, but their lack of “full safety check” left me riding on a potentially dangerous bike for 2 years.

    As I have not yet had any apology, just them trying to blame me, I am going to annoy them with a claim until something happens

    May 4, 2018 at 8:25 am #918759
    0
    The Gavalier

    Rich_cb wrote:

    Rich_cb wrote:
    Canyon48 wrote:

    Mech hangers are designed as sacrificial components, they fail in order to prevent damage to the frame. Damage from a mech hanger failing is really bad luck.

    https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/blog/gear-hangers-break/

    Well I didn’t know they could break from poor gear selection, you learn something every day! I still think that if there was a known fault with that component and it failed causing damage then you’d have a case under the Consumer Rights Act.

    As Canyon48 said though, the recall was nothing to do with the hangers failing, it was to do with potential wheel slippage in the dropout. If his wheel had come out then yes, there’s a claim to be made, but a hanger breaking (at the point they’re designed to) has nothing to do with the purpose of the recall. 

    May 3, 2018 at 9:15 pm #918757
    0
    Rich_cb

    Canyon48 wrote:

    Canyon48 wrote:

    Mech hangers are designed as sacrificial components, they fail in order to prevent damage to the frame. Damage from a mech hanger failing is really bad luck.

    https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/blog/gear-hangers-break/

    Well I didn’t know they could break from poor gear selection, you learn something every day!

    I still think that if there was a known fault with that component and it failed causing damage then you’d have a case under the Consumer Rights Act.

    May 3, 2018 at 9:00 pm #918755
    0
    ClubSmed
    Canyon48 wrote:
    I never realised Pinnacle bikes are actually designed in the UK! Learn something new every day. I have no idea how Evans Cycles and/or Pinnacle Bikes is structured, so there may be a question mark of who has liability (I stress the may).

    I thought that I read it somewhere and found this https://bikemagic.com/news/pinnacle-bikes-factory-visit.html

    Canyon48 wrote:
    I think you’ll REALLY struggle to reclaim travel costs due to naff customer service, unfortunately.

    I know that, I am not really expecting anything for the travel, I am just trying to make myself as much as a pain to them as their poor customer service was to me.

    Canyon48 wrote:
    To me, this would certainly be a suggestion to find another (better) bike shop!

    Unfortunately the cycle to work scheme that my employer runs is through Evans Cycles so it would cost me a lot more to go elsewhere

    May 3, 2018 at 9:00 pm #918753
    0
    ClubSmed
    Canyon48 wrote:
    I never realised Pinnacle bikes are actually designed in the UK! Learn something new every day. I have no idea how Evans Cycles and/or Pinnacle Bikes is structured, so there may be a question mark of who has liability (I stress the may).

    I thought that I read it somewhere and found this https://bikemagic.com/news/pinnacle-bikes-factory-visit.html

    Canyon48 wrote:
    I think you’ll REALLY struggle to reclaim travel costs due to naff customer service, unfortunately.

    I know that, I am not really expecting anything for the travel, I am just trying to make myself as much as a pain to them as their poor customer service was to me.

    Canyon48 wrote:
    To me, this would certainly be a suggestion to find another (better) bike shop!

    Unfortunately the cycle to work scheme that my employer runs is through Evans Cycles so it would cost me a lot more to go elsewhere

    May 3, 2018 at 8:30 pm #918751
    0
    Canyon48
    ClubSmed wrote:
    First let me deal with the suggestion that it is not Evans Cycles responsibility.

    • Pinnacle Bikes were created by, and are owned by Evans Cycles
    • Pinnacle Bikes design and quality check all of their bikes in England
    • They are manufactured in the far east, but as they are manufactured to Pinnacles designs that does not matter.

    So Evans Cycles designed, quality tested, built, sold and serviced the bike. They may not have manufactured the bike but as they outsourced this using their design specifications they still hold liability.

     

    On the matter of trying to reclaim transport costs. This is not to do with the failure of the hanger, but the error in sending me the incorrect hanger and taking weeks to resolve this issue. If I had recieved the hanger that I ordered in the first place then I would never had to commute by train.

    On the issue that hangers fail, that is what they are supposed to do. If this is the case then fine, I did not know this and it’s why I asked the question here. When the hanger broke I initially thought that it was something that happens so I need to get on and fix it. It was only after the wrong hanger being sent and the following poor customer service that I discovered the hanger recall issue. After finding this out I was very disapointed that Evans Cycles did not replace it during a service and that no appology was ever offered. I wasn’t even offered a refund for the hanger that I bought, I had to request that. All in all I am very dissapointed with their service, you really get the true sense of people/companies when things go wrong.

    If I had got any other make of bike and they had missed it in the service I could understand it. I would not expect that if I took a mazda car to a citroen dealer that they would know about any recall issues. This was an Evans designed, quality checked, built, sold and serviced bike though so I would expect the same level of service as I would taking a citroen car to a citroen dealer for a service.

     

    I never realised Pinnacle bikes are actually designed in the UK! Learn something new every day. I have no idea how Evans Cycles and/or Pinnacle Bikes is structured, so there may be a question mark of who has liability (I stress the may).

    Strangely, I haven’t been able to find the ISO certification for Evans Cycles or Pinnacle Bikes, I’m clearly not looking hard enough!

    Agreed that is quite disappointing that Evans didn’t spot the recalled hanger and didn’t even offer a refund for the wrong hanger. I’ve had issues with Evans before, incorrectly described parts etc, etc.

    I think you’ll REALLY struggle to reclaim travel costs due to naff customer service, unfortunately.

    I don’t think the analogy for the car servicing exactly holds true, but I understand what you’re getting at!

    To me, this would certainly be a suggestion to find another (better) bike shop!

    May 3, 2018 at 7:25 pm #918749
    0
    ClubSmed

    First let me deal with the

    First let me deal with the suggestion that it is not Evans Cycles responsibility.

    • Pinnacle Bikes were created by, and are owned by Evans Cycles
    • Pinnacle Bikes design and quality check all of their bikes in England
    • They are manufactured in the far east, but as they are manufactured to Pinnacles designs that does not matter.

    So Evans Cycles designed, quality tested, built, sold and serviced the bike. They may not have manufactured the bike but as they outsourced this using their design specifications they still hold liability.

     

    On the matter of trying to reclaim transport costs. This is not to do with the failure of the hanger, but the error in sending me the incorrect hanger and taking weeks to resolve this issue. If I had recieved the hanger that I ordered in the first place then I would never had to commute by train.

    On the issue that hangers fail, that is what they are supposed to do. If this is the case then fine, I did not know this and it’s why I asked the question here. When the hanger broke I initially thought that it was something that happens so I need to get on and fix it. It was only after the wrong hanger being sent and the following poor customer service that I discovered the hanger recall issue. After finding this out I was very disapointed that Evans Cycles did not replace it during a service and that no appology was ever offered. I wasn’t even offered a refund for the hanger that I bought, I had to request that. All in all I am very dissapointed with their service, you really get the true sense of people/companies when things go wrong.

    If I had got any other make of bike and they had missed it in the service I could understand it. I would not expect that if I took a mazda car to a citroen dealer that they would know about any recall issues. This was an Evans designed, quality checked, built, sold and serviced bike though so I would expect the same level of service as I would taking a citroen car to a citroen dealer for a service.

     

    May 3, 2018 at 5:50 pm #918747
    0
    Canyon48

    Rich_cb wrote:

    Rich_cb wrote:
    Canyon48 wrote:

    That would only apply to replacement of the mech hanger because of the recall.

    The mech OP had performed as it should, by failing. So neither the OEM or distributor is liable to pay costs for damage from that, or subsequent transport fares.

    I’m not sure a hanger is supposed to fail arbitrarily. If part of the product fails damaging another part in the process I would have thought that would be covered under the act. If the power cable for your iPad was faulty and blew up said iPad I think you’d be a bit annoyed if they just sent a replacement power cable. Transport fares might be a bit of a stretch.

    Mech hangers are designed as sacrificial components, they fail in order to prevent damage to the frame. Damage from a mech hanger failing is really bad luck.

    https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/blog/gear-hangers-break/

    May 3, 2018 at 5:44 pm #918745
    0
    Rich_cb

    Canyon48 wrote:

    Canyon48 wrote:

    That would only apply to replacement of the mech hanger because of the recall.

    The mech OP had performed as it should, by failing. So neither the OEM or distributor is liable to pay costs for damage from that, or subsequent transport fares.

    I’m not sure a hanger is supposed to fail arbitrarily.

    If part of the product fails damaging another part in the process I would have thought that would be covered under the act.

    If the power cable for your iPad was faulty and blew up said iPad I think you’d be a bit annoyed if they just sent a replacement power cable.

    Transport fares might be a bit of a stretch.

    May 3, 2018 at 5:11 pm #918743
    0
    Canyon48

    Rich_cb wrote:

    [quote=Rich_cb]I think the Consumer Rights Act applies here. The onus is on the retailer not the manufacturer and you can claim for a faulty product up to 6 years after purchase. From the Which website: “Your rights against the retailer can last for up to six years, but after the first six months the onus is on you to prove a fault was present at the time you took ownership of the goods.” In your case this could be quite easy as the product has been the subject of a safety recall. More info: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product%5B/quote%5D

    That would only apply to replacement of the mech hanger because of the recall.

    The mech OP had performed as it should, by failing. So neither the OEM or distributor is liable to pay costs for damage from that, or subsequent transport fares.

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