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Issues with Evans Cycles and my Pinnacle bike

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  • May 3, 2018 at 8:54 am #28471
    ClubSmed

    In October 2015 I purchased a Pinnacle Arkose 3 from Evans Cycles and have been immensely impressed with both it and the Evans service, until a few weeks ago.

    Whilst cycling home, without warning, the rear hanger snapped and sent the rear derailleur through the spokes of the rear wheel. As there was nothing I could do at the scene I was forced to push my bike the remaining miles of the journey. When back, the first thing I did was get online and order a new rear hanger (I already had a spare derailleur so this was not an issue).

    A few days later the hanger arrived in store and I picked it up so that I could fix the bike and continue my daily commute by bike. Upon return home with the supplied hanger however, I discovered that it did not fit my bike! I checked the code on the side (BGRD-4) and it was correct but the hanger did not match shape of the broken one or the image on the Evans website.

    I contacted Evans online for assistance in this matter as I was very confused to say the least. After a lot of back messages and images sent and forth over several days (and being forced to commute by train) I finally got the correct hanger.

    More poignantly, I learnt during this time that:

    • In 2011 Evans changed the shape of the BGRD-4 to the one I had
    • The old shape then became BGRD-1
    • I had somehow received old (pre 2012) stock of the BGRD-4
    • The BGRD-4 had been recalled in December 2015
    • The replacement hanger was BGRD-4. (full stop at the end)

    This means that the hanger breaking was possibly not just a freak accident but a flaw in the item itself!

    The email for the recall had slipped through the cracks and escaped my notice, however in May 2016 my bike was booked into an Evans Cycles store for a “Silver Service”. I believe that as part of this service the recalled hanger should have been identified and replaced, Evans are of the opinion that as “The Silver Service that you booked was five months after the recall. This would not have been looked at“.

     

    I believe that it does not matter if it is 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months or 5 years. If the item that they sold me was defective and they had the opportunity to resolve this then they should have done. As they did not I think that they should compensate me for the damage to the derailleur and wheel but I seem to be getting nowhere.

     

    Am I wrong, should I just accept that it was my fault for not seeing the recall notice within a period of less than 5 months?

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Viewing 15 replies - 31 through 45 (of 55 total)
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  • May 3, 2018 at 5:02 pm #918741
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    Rich_cb

    I think the Consumer Rights
    I think the Consumer Rights Act applies here.

    The onus is on the retailer not the manufacturer and you can claim for a faulty product up to 6 years after purchase.

    From the Which website:

    “Your rights against the retailer can last for up to six years, but after the first six months the onus is on you to prove a fault was present at the time you took ownership of the goods.”

    In your case this could be quite easy as the product has been the subject of a safety recall.

    More info:
    https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product

    May 3, 2018 at 4:28 pm #918739
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    PeterPeterPeter

    I’ve got very little to add

    I’ve got very little to add as Canyon48 has just solved this thread- just the kind of genuinely informed answer you hope for when scrolling through half baked opinions (see my previous post).

    You’ll get some kind of goodwill gesture from Evans by being friendly and reasonable, or by maybe ambushing a store manager with threats of legal action and irrelevant guidelines but (a plea from someone who works in customer service) the former is much more satisfying all round.

     

    May 3, 2018 at 4:05 pm #918737
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    Canyon48
    djbwilts wrote:
    Haven’t read the whole of the above thread but who’s to say that the mech hanger wasn’t damaged by you through daily wear and tear (as they do even when bikes are treated well – it doesn’t take that much to break a mech hanger). Would it be Evans problem still? 

    That’s what I’m thinking. It actually sounds like the mech hanger did its job and failed due to a particularly high stress, after all, it’s a sacrificial component.

    May 3, 2018 at 4:00 pm #918735
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    djbwilts

    Haven’t read the whole of the

    Haven’t read the whole of the above thread but who’s to say that the mech hanger wasn’t damaged by you through daily wear and tear (as they do even when bikes are treated well – it doesn’t take that much to break a mech hanger). Would it be Evans problem still? 

     

    (FWIW I also have an Arkose and experienced issues with the original hanger – the rear wheel would slide forward in the dropout slightly under load. Nothing was mentioned about a sudden failure of the hanger though I guess one issue could lead to the other. I got the email and a letter I think as well and as I wasn’t happy to take the bike in they sent a replacement and a tool to do the job – a chainring bolt wrench).

    May 3, 2018 at 3:55 pm #918733
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    Canyon48

    I’ve just noticed that the

    I’ve just noticed that the product recall was for wheel slip issues. Your mech hanger failed mechanically but your wheel stayed in place. Unfortunately, this seems to make the recall irrelevant to your situation.

    May 3, 2018 at 3:41 pm #918731
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    Canyon48
    ClubSmed wrote:
    Canyon48 wrote:
    The recall wouldn’t have been issued by Evans (merely communicated), it’s not up to Evans to ensure every bike has the recall carried out – they won’t even have the liability. It is the manufacturer who must issue a recall (to comply with their accreditation), but, again, it isn’t up to them to ensure every part is replaced.

    It’s a Pinnacle bike, Pinnacle is Evans Cycles own brand of bikes (https://www.evanscycles.com/coffeestop/news/pinnacle-bikes-brand-history). In this case Evans Cycles is the producer, seller and servicer of the bike.

    As far as I am aware, legally, that is irrelevant. Evans are not a bicycle producer, the OEM is. It’s up to the OEM to issue a recall, which they did (through Evans). It’s unlikely there is any legal liability on Evans for an engineering/recall issue.

    I imagine Evans would only accept liability if it could be proven they had broken any laws, in this case, it seems unlikely they have and near impossible to prove. The contract to purchase the bike was with the distributor (Evans) but the liability for the mechanical safety rests with the OEM (Pinnacle bikes is a brand, not even an OEM).

    I have tried to search for any ISO accreditation of Evans or Pinnacle and I can’t find anything, so you’d have to find the OEM of Pinnacle bikes. Depending on how you want to act, you’ll either have to put the liability on the OEM (which I doubt is possible seeing as they issued a recall, as they should do) or you’ll have to try and prove Evans are liable due to negligence, but this will probably be extremely difficult.

     

    May 3, 2018 at 3:25 pm #918729
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    ClubSmed
    Canyon48 wrote:
    The recall wouldn’t have been issued by Evans (merely communicated), it’s not up to Evans to ensure every bike has the recall carried out – they won’t even have the liability. It is the manufacturer who must issue a recall (to comply with their accreditation), but, again, it isn’t up to them to ensure every part is replaced.

    It’s a Pinnacle bike, Pinnacle is Evans Cycles own brand of bikes (https://www.evanscycles.com/coffeestop/news/pinnacle-bikes-brand-history). In this case Evans Cycles is the producer, seller and servicer of the bike.

    May 3, 2018 at 3:15 pm #918727
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    Canyon48

    As others have said, it’s a

    As others have said, it’s a difficult one!

    This gets into the legal side of engineering, which takes a bit to get your head around.

    First off, I would say that you certainly can’t compare it to a car service (you would think you should be able to, but in reality, you cant’). The reason for this is the different quality standards the items are made to. Cars are made to ISO 16949 and (usually) ISO 9001, bicycles are made to ISO 4210. The difference in these Quality Management Systems is massive, i.e. your local bike builder can build to ISO 4210, but it’s very difficult to get ISO 9001 as you have to implement a fully audited QMS.

    Cars (just like planes) are made to a standard which encompasses recalls etc and they have to be taken far more seriously (I assume due to liability etc). This information is distributed in formal engineering documents as safety bulletins; because car garages are compliant with certain testing standards, they receive this bulletins. Car garages use digital systems to record info on your car and these will show various bulletins etc.

    Your local bike shop has none of this, they see a bike in, service it and see it out again. Just because it was a “safety” recall doesn’t mean it would be checked in a “safety check” (it probably would, however, if the manufacturer and shop were accredited to the same QMS). A prime example would be a frame failure would be considered a safety issue, but I wouldn’t expect a bike shop to, for example, x-ray a carbon bike to look for carbon failures.

    The recall wouldn’t have been issued by Evans (merely communicated), it’s not up to Evans to ensure every bike has the recall carried out – they won’t even have the liability. It is the manufacturer who must issue a recall (to comply with their accreditation), but, again, it isn’t up to them to ensure every part is replaced.

    I really struggle to see any way that Evans have any legal liability to check for recalled parts, granted, they would if they were accredited to a standard which encompasses this, but they aren’t. I also find it highly implausible that Evans will have a database of every bike with recalls that they are able to refer to when servicing bikes.

    Despite this, a really good mechanic/bike shop would be aware of issues with products they sell/sold and I would expect them to be able to advise on such issues. In my experience, Evans isn’t even a particularly good bike shop…

    Oh, and by the way, quality engineering isn’t the most exciting topic!

     

    May 3, 2018 at 2:59 pm #918725
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    ClubSmed
    philhubbard wrote:
    Under normal circumstances I would have expected the hanger to have broken a lot quicker than 2 and a half years if it wasn’t substantially strong.

    How long would you expect it to last if it was substantially strong?

    May 3, 2018 at 2:28 pm #918723
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    philhubbard

    I’d say it’s an extremely

    I’d say it’s an extremely tricky one to be honest, especially to prove. 

     

    There is a strong chance although it was a safety recall on the product they may ask you to prove that you were not at fault for breaking the hanger. Normally the fault is for a certain percentage so they have to recall all the products.

     

    Under normal circumstances I would have expected the hanger to have broken a lot quicker than 2 and a half years if it wasn’t substantially strong.

     

    It also looks like your hanger may have been bent before it broke but it is hard to tell from the image

    May 3, 2018 at 2:05 pm #918721
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    ClubSmed

    The recall notice (https:/

    The recall notice (https://static.evanscycles.com/production/pdf-media/misc/recall_notices/Pinnacle_BGRD-4_Hanger_Recall.pdf) is entitled:
    “BGRD-4 HANGER SAFETY RECALL”

    The Evans Cycles “Silver Service” description (https://www.evanscycles.com/coffeestop/advice/evans-cycles-silver-service) claims:
    “As with the Bronze Service, there is a full safety check“

    So as the recall is a safety issue as stated on the recall notice, it should be reasonable to expect it to be discovered and resolved as part of “a full safety check” during a silver service from the the company that not only supplies and produces the bike but issued the recall.

    If they had stated that the service provided a “basic safety check” I suppose it could be reasoned that it would be outside the remit, but it states a “full safety check”. I really can’t see how they can get out of this, or am I missing something?

    May 3, 2018 at 11:42 am #918719
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    hawkinspeter

    Yep – I reckon you’ve got a

    Yep – I reckon you’ve got a strong position there. Print that out, highlight the relevant sections and wave it under an Evans’ manager’s nose and hopefully they’ll recompense you straight away. Otherwise it’s lawyering time.

    May 3, 2018 at 11:41 am #918717
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    ClubSmed
    kil0ran wrote:
    Question is, is it worth Small Claims? A Pinnacle rear wheel is going to be £60 plus your train fares, that’s about the limit of liability.

    I upgraded the wheelset to Fulcrum Racing 5 DB so the cost of replacement greater, plus ​the cost of the 105 5800 rear derailleur and inconvenience factor

    May 3, 2018 at 11:33 am #918715
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    ClubSmed
    hawkinspeter wrote:
    ClubSmed wrote:
    hawkinspeter wrote:
    It’s a tricky one.

    If it’s a safety issue then you could try to sue either/both of the retailer (Evans) and the producer (Pinnacle). Also, you would expect that your service would cover safety issues.

    If it’s not a safety issue, then you could try pursuing the retailer for the bike not being fit for purpose. I don’t know whether the time taken for it to fail would be significant or not (personally, I’d expect a hanger to not break unless hit by something).

    I’d probably argue that it is a safety issue as a sudden breaking of the hanger could easily cause you to lose control.

    I don’t know if this link will help at all: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/product-liability-and-safety-law

    Thanks for the link, I’ll have a look now.

    It is definitely a safety issue as the recall notice headline is “Pinnacle and Hoy Hanger Safety Recall impacting 2015/16 Disc Brake models of: Arkose, Pyrolite, Dolomite and Shizuoka“

    That looks promising. Evans should definitely have picked that up during the service.

    from the link you gave I found a section that states:

    The main responsibility for product safety falls on producers.This includes:

    • manufacturers
    • importers
    • businesses that supply own-brand products
    • businesses that change the safety of a product – for example, by customising or servicing it

    As it is an Evans own brand bike and they did the servicing I think this would put the onus on them on two counts.

    May 3, 2018 at 11:27 am #918713
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    kil0ran

    Its a safety issue, and as

    Its a safety issue, and as they’ve had your bike in for a service they should have done the replacement then. Once a recall is issued they tend not to have a time limit (Kinesis are still replacing forks for example). 

    Pretty much any part failing on a bike is a safety issue, and a rear mech going through the wheel certainly is. They could argue that it was your own fault for not following up the recall or even that it was damaged by a previous crash but the fact they’ve touched your bike since the recall and not replaced it is the important thing here. Question is, is it worth Small Claims? A Pinnacle rear wheel is going to be £60 plus your train fares, that’s about the limit of liability.

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