log in
register

Wheel Upgrade…will I notice the difference up hills?

  • Creator
    Topic
  • January 29, 2018 at 8:47 pm #28091
    steve_s1

    Hi,

    I’m a medium weight (70kg) rider and regularly do a few hills around Surrey, UK. 

    I’m thinking of upgrading my hoops from Shimano RS11s (came with Scott Solace 30) to either Zonda C17 or Fulcrum Racing 3 wheelset. Both sets are ~400g lighter than the RS11s and cost around £300 (~ twice the price of the RS11s).

    Before I splash out just wondered if anyone else has made a similar upgrade and if so, will I notice any difference from the stock wheels, especially up hills?

    Some research suggests the difference may be marginal and not worth the effort / cost.

    Any recommendations welcome.

    Cheers all,

    Steve

     

  • Creator
    Topic
Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 42 total)
1 2 3
  • Author
    Replies
  • February 8, 2018 at 5:25 pm #911429
    0
    alansmurphy
    madcarew wrote:
     

    Another downside of HR is that as you approach (and exceed) max VO2 the HR / Power relationship becomes less and less linear, making higher power efforts much more difficult to judge with just HR. 

     

    When I get past zone 4.5 I can’t even read the bloody bike computer 🙂

     

     

    February 8, 2018 at 4:13 pm #911427
    0
    LastBoyScout

    I’ve got 2 sets of wheels for

    I’ve got 2 sets of wheels for one of my bikes, a set of Bontrager Race that I use for commuting and winter training and a set of Race X-Lites that I use as “best” wheels.

    The Race X-lites are also around 400g lighter (iirc) than the Race – I’ve no idea how much of that is a saving in the rim or in the hub, though,

    In practice, the RXLs spin up much quicker than the Rs when getting away from junctions and so on and “feel” much quicker overall, but there’s also other factors at work, such as newer bearings and racier tyres on the RXLs.

    February 6, 2018 at 4:01 am #911425
    0
    madcarew
    wellsprop wrote:
    part_robot wrote:
    wellsprop wrote:
    Just switching from riding on the hoods to the drops can give a reduction of 0.02 in CdA, which would be a reduction of aerodynamic drag by around 6% (this would be around 0.5mph increase at 190 watts).

    Well, achoolyeee I think you’ll find you’re better off on the hoods  … http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1754337114549876?journalCode=pipa

    I don’t have access to sage journals 🙁 

    I read the abstract, the hoods can be better assuming you have horizontal forearms. This has been shown a couple times previously, from what I can remember…

    Arms horizontal is the best as it’s sustainable for a long time, full horizontal arms on the drops isnt sustainable.

    Resting forearms on the handlebars and riding with hadns clasped together gives almost the same power savings as being on tri bars. With practise it is sustainable for considerable periods of time. 

    February 6, 2018 at 3:19 am #911423
    0
    madcarew
    shufflingb wrote:
    alansmurphy wrote:
    Plasterer’s Radio wrote:
    No, It’s rhetoric. The benefits are small.

    Spend the cash on a power meter instead. WAY more useful.

    On a long climb (30 mins plus) wheels may save seconds.

    The power meter can save you MINUTES.

     

    Do you think so? I only started using HR a year or so ago and am now a convert, speed is just an output, controlling the ability to push a much better measure. It’ll be hard to convince me to spend so much on a piece of tech, why does it make such a difference?

     

    The difference is heart rate lags physical effort and tends to smooth it out, whereas measured power is closer to the real-time instantaneous effort.  Theoretically, if the riding situation changes quickly enough a Power Meter may provide better guidance. To realise this improvement though, changes can’t be too quick as the individual still needs time to respond to the guidance.

    fwiw I’ve used HRM’s for many years and now have an accurate PM on my smart trainer. Power is definitely useful on the turbo for training. If I was regularly road riding for hour plus type times I would want one. However, imho I wouldn’t put a PM ahead of wheels; unlike power meters,  nice wheels are a useful improvement every ride and are unlikely to become either significantly cheaper or  obsolete as rapidly.

    Another downside of HR is that as you approach (and exceed) max VO2 the HR / Power relationship becomes less and less linear, making higher power efforts much more difficult to judge with just HR. 

    February 5, 2018 at 5:35 pm #911421
    0
    Nat Jas Moe

    Simple answer: Yes, but it

    Simple answer: Yes, but it may be all in the mind. I upgraded recently and notice the difference, it may be only perceived and not real but it’s there all the same.

    February 5, 2018 at 1:26 pm #911419
    0
    Canyon48
    part_robot wrote:
    wellsprop wrote:
    Just switching from riding on the hoods to the drops can give a reduction of 0.02 in CdA, which would be a reduction of aerodynamic drag by around 6% (this would be around 0.5mph increase at 190 watts).

    Well, achoolyeee I think you’ll find you’re better off on the hoods  … http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1754337114549876?journalCode=pipa

    I don’t have access to sage journals 🙁 

    I read the abstract, the hoods can be better assuming you have horizontal forearms. This has been shown a couple times previously, from what I can remember…

    Arms horizontal is the best as it’s sustainable for a long time, full horizontal arms on the drops isnt sustainable.

    February 5, 2018 at 1:05 pm #911417
    0
    Ad Hynkel

    I went from a 2.1Kg set to 1
    I went from a 2.1Kg set to 1.6Kg. I noticed the difference in acceleration when trying to put a bit of pace back into a climb, usually around the 7-8 minute mark… So I get marginally quicker times, probably as much because I feel the reward at those brief moments of acceleration and psychologically that helps keep me +ve over the duration of a 15-20 minute climb. I am still piss poor at climbing compared to many of the local club riders though! But that’s fine, I am no racer.

    February 5, 2018 at 12:02 pm #911415
    0
    Anonymous

    I am a real wheel-whore and

    I am a real wheel-whore and love expensive wheels, but in reality they don’t make much difference.

    The thing with lighter wheels accelerating  quicker is that they also decelerate more quickly, a heavier wheel will hold onto that speed for longer, so it is all swings-and-roundabouts. That feeling of a lighter wheel being more nippy is real but very insignificant in the context of a whole ride.

    February 5, 2018 at 10:53 am #911413
    0
    iandusud

    Lighter wheels and tyres

    Lighter wheels and tyres certianly make a bike feel faster, almost certainly because they accelerate better. How much this equates to in reality I don’t know but there’s nothing like the feel of a good set of wheels/tyres. I remember when I built myself a set of tubular wheels back in the 80s. The difference in feel of my bike with those wheels over my stock 700cs with 23mm tyres was very noticeable both in terms of speed and ride quality. I suspect that now as rim and tyre technology have improved that the differences are less. However I do like to keep wheels and tyres as light as is reasonble. My personal preference for tyres is GP4000s 25s and my winter bike has a set of Ulteegra wheels (1600g) and my summer bike at set DT Swiss wheels (1400g). Don’t forget to experiment with tyre pressures. Experience has taught me that on the sort of roads I ride on it is easy to over-inflate tyres to the point where the ride becomes harsh and slower. Get the pressures right and the bike glides over the road surface. I weigh around 70 kg and generally run my tyres at around 60/70 psi front/rear.

    February 4, 2018 at 8:55 pm #911411
    0
    part_robot
    wellsprop wrote:
    Just switching from riding on the hoods to the drops can give a reduction of 0.02 in CdA, which would be a reduction of aerodynamic drag by around 6% (this would be around 0.5mph increase at 190 watts).

    Well, achoolyeee I think you’ll find you’re better off on the hoods  … http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1754337114549876?journalCode=pipa

    February 4, 2018 at 8:47 pm #911409
    0
    joeegg

    I swapped out some DT’s for a

    I swapped out some DT’s for a pair of Racing 3’s. The Fulcrums were marginally heavier but felt way better on the road due to the stiffness. You could even say a bit harsh but I’ll take that in return for performance.

    So maybe weight isn’t the big issue,but I’ve been riding a bike that’s had a 2kg and 1.6kg wheelset on it. It is definitely slower and harder work uphill with the heavier wheelset.

    I know its claimed that the lower weight really only counts on acceleration but cyclists do accelerate quite frequently on climbs .

    February 4, 2018 at 12:15 pm #911407
    0
    ktache

    New bits make you go faster,

    New bits make you go faster, new, shiny bits even faster and new, shiny, expensive bits make you go faster still.  If you can always upgrade.  She deserves it.

    February 4, 2018 at 12:01 pm #911405
    0
    shufflingb
    alansmurphy wrote:
    Plasterer’s Radio wrote:
    No, It’s rhetoric. The benefits are small.

    Spend the cash on a power meter instead. WAY more useful.

    On a long climb (30 mins plus) wheels may save seconds.

    The power meter can save you MINUTES.

     

    Do you think so? I only started using HR a year or so ago and am now a convert, speed is just an output, controlling the ability to push a much better measure. It’ll be hard to convince me to spend so much on a piece of tech, why does it make such a difference?

     

    The difference is heart rate lags physical effort and tends to smooth it out, whereas measured power is closer to the real-time instantaneous effort.  Theoretically, if the riding situation changes quickly enough a Power Meter may provide better guidance. To realise this improvement though, changes can’t be too quick as the individual still needs time to respond to the guidance.

    fwiw I’ve used HRM’s for many years and now have an accurate PM on my smart trainer. Power is definitely useful on the turbo for training. If I was regularly road riding for hour plus type times I would want one. However, imho I wouldn’t put a PM ahead of wheels; unlike power meters,  nice wheels are a useful improvement every ride and are unlikely to become either significantly cheaper or  obsolete as rapidly.

    February 4, 2018 at 10:35 am #911403
    0
    Canyon48

    I think some physics revision

    I think some physics revision is needed…

    Rotational mass and iniertia are insignificant!

    http://www.biketechreview.com/reviews/wheels/63-wheel-performance

    http://road.cc/content/feature/194441-cycling-myths-busted-da-vinci-dead-frames-skinny-tyres-rotating-weight-and

    Rotational mass and inertia are only of any significance when accelerating very quickly (like a sprint from standing start). Once you start moving above about 15mph then aerodynamics is by far the most important factor.

    Even on climbs, weight isn’t as important as it is made out to be. Yes, when you are going slowly, on a steep gradient, weight is more important than aerodynamics. But, as soon as it gets flatter or you are moving quickly, then aerodynamics is back to being the dominant force.

    Losing weight off the bike isn’t very important, in terms of physics  (however, I do agree it can make a bike feel better). If you weigh 75kg and have a 10kg bike losing 500 grams off the bike has a 0.5% reduction on total weight.

    Just switching from riding on the hoods to the drops can give a reduction of 0.02 in CdA, which would be a reduction of aerodynamic drag by around 6% (this would be around 0.5mph increase at 190 watts).

    So, whilst I agree that some super lightweight wheels will save you a few seconds on a hill climb, just switching from hoods to drops can increase your speed by 0.5mph over your entire ride.

    If you really want to get faster, get flexible, get low.

    As I said right at the beginning though, Campag Zondas are a lovely lightweight set of wheels that look awesome too! They “felt” better when I upgraded to them – I won’t suggest they will make any significant time gains though 🙂 Fulcrums are nice too.

    February 4, 2018 at 9:57 am #911401
    0
    Langsam

    I would suggest that your

    I would suggest that your faster times are due to 5% weight and 95% improved rolling resistance/aerodynamics.

  • Author
    Replies
Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 42 total)
1 2 3
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.