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Ribble R872 105SE vs Planet X ProCarbon SRAM Rival?

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  • July 24, 2017 at 9:19 pm #27396
    Punches Dragons

    I’ve just started getting into Sportives and am currently riding a 2016 Cube Attain. No problems with the bike but I am thinking of taking advantage of the bike to work scheme to make an upgrade, as it’s the only way my wife will let me spend a £1000 on a bike and spending any more money on significant upgrades is also out. Two options seem to make sense at the current prices:

    • The Ribble R872 105SE which seems to have a very well reviewed frame, albeit with a few complaints of a lack of compliance on longer rides, full 105 groupset and what appears to be a very basic set of Rodi Airline 5 Wheels. I’d guess that Ribble’s thought process is that these would be the first thing to be upgraded but as mentioned above, it’s pretty unlikely I’ll get to upgrade them. another downside is I’d have to pay an additional £100 Admin fee, so save money from the tax man but pay it to Ribble instead.
    • The Planet X ProCarbon is a bit lighter and has a better set of wheels, Vision 35’s, and a more compliant frame but there is just no up to date review available. It has a full SRAM Rival groupset(I am not bothered about if I have Shimano or SRAM). On the downside there are a few mentions on Forum posts that the bike suffers from high speed wobble at speeds over 40mph (I am not sure I’ve even gone that fast yet!) and that the front fork is a little springy when sprinting. 

    I am 40 years old, 5ft10 and currently weigh 14st (that is going down but I doubt I’ll ever weigh less than 13). I am looking to enter short and middle distance sportives next year, with maybe one longer distance one and will probably join a cycle club next year. And of course I’ll be riding it to work!!

    Any constructive advice welcome, particularly if you have experience of the bikes in question. If you do have alternatives to offer please remember I can only buy through the bike 2 works vouchers so please don’t suggest anything that cannot be purchased that way or costs more than a grand, regardless of how brilliant it is.

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  • August 18, 2017 at 10:55 am #898027
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    Punches Dragons

    Thanks for the steer towards

    Thanks for the steer towards DCR, Kieron. Definitely a very viable alternative to the Hunt Wheels for when the time comes.

    August 17, 2017 at 7:01 am #898025
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    Dantenspeed

    Yes you can use the c2w

    Yes you can use the c2w voucher for accessories only, I’ve just ordered a wheelset through the voucher.

    August 17, 2017 at 2:41 am #898023
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    alansmurphy

    The cycle scheme C2W voucher,
    The cycle scheme C2W voucher, I applied today, does seem to be able to be used for accessories only. If the Tory Cuts don’t make cu*ts then in 12 or 18 months time use your next voucher for wheels 🙂

    I was considering doing that with this voucher as my Cannondale is on stock wheels and looks wise (as in they appear cheap, never ridden an expensive wheels etc to say these are crap) they’re definitely the weakest point. However, it was my first full carbon, first decent groupset so it’s already a flyer – want to smash another year or 18 months out of these wheels first 🙂

    August 17, 2017 at 12:26 am #898021
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    kieren_lon

    Copy & paste from the website
    Copy & paste from the website

    DCR standard road, DCR 23mm alloy, Sapim D-Light spokes, alloy nipples (20:24)
    £360. Approximately 1420g.
    As above with CX-Ray spokes (silver)
    £395. Approximately 1385g

    The DCR rim is a popular alternative to the Archetype. It comes with a silver machined sidewall rather than black which is generally preferred. It is a more rounded aero profile. It is also tubeless friendly and it is lighter. They have a welded joint, a rider weight limit of 120kg and a spoke bed that has been tested to 300kgf (to put that in perspective, the original Pacenti rims were failing at 125kgf).

    August 17, 2017 at 12:21 am #898019
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    kieren_lon

    The DCR wheels weigh about
    The DCR wheels weigh about the same and are rated at 120kg. (At least I think as I’m checking from my phone)

    August 16, 2017 at 12:45 pm #898017
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    Punches Dragons

    Put £200 deposit on the

    Put £200 deposit on the CAAD12 Ultegra at my LBS today. It was more than I planned to spend but it made a lot of sense in the long run. If I’d have bought a 105 CAAD 12, either in discs or rim brake versions I’d have been hankering after new wheels almost straight away and knowing myself I’d have bought them within 6 months of getting the bike. I’d have ended up spending roughly similar amounts anyway and then left with a bike which would be much harder to upgrade cost effectively. This way I get a machine that should not really need an upgrade, but has a very obvious upgrade path in the wheels later should I need to. If I do the wheel upgrade(and I need to lose around 10lb just to satisfy the maximum rider weight ratings on the Hunt wheels) that would leave me with an exceptionally light bike and probably more of a chasis than the engine justifies! The only other upgrade I think I may need to consider is changing the spidering to a 50/34 for some rides. It comes with an 11/28 cassette but I believe this cannot be changed without changing the rear mech to a long caged Ultegra. I think the stock setup will be fine for my local rides but I may need more options if I start entering sportives further afield.

    August 11, 2017 at 8:28 pm #898015
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    Punches Dragons

    That’s no problem at all

    That’s no problem at all Kieron,

    I have got the provisional go ahead from my wife to spend a bit more than I first allowed, albeit with a few conditions attached, so I am pretty certain I will go for the CAAD12 Ultegra rim brake version provided the wife conditions are met but if not then definitely the CAAD105 disc from my LBS. They were surprisingly competitive on price and it is very reassuring to have their support in case of any difficulties. 

    My LBS was pushing the disc versions due to the extra stopping power when descending and the increased predictability and that the weight difference(between discs and rims) could always be lost by me.  All very true points but if I went for the 105 disc I think I’d be looking at a wheelset upgrade shortly afterwards. The Maddux RS2.0 wheelset that comes with them seems to be; rather portly and not liked on forum posts etc. If it follows the rest of Cannondales ethos for the range the wheelset will be the most basic part. Looking at upgrades a set of MASON x HUNT 4Season Disc would be the logical upgrade but that’s another £369 on top. That would give me a roughly 8.1-8.2kg disc brake equipped steed but with some small compromises in compliance and finishing kit (alloy rather than carbon seat post, a supposedly less compliant front fork due to the differing design and a different saddle). That’s still a reasonably light bike if I decided I wanted discs.

    That being said my local area is not exactly mountainous and most descents are relatively short and straight so I don’t think I’ll get all the benefits that I might from the discs although the ability to stop quicker in an emergency is always going to be attractive. The CAAD12 Ultegra is a much lighter machine at under 7.5kg and that will equate to a faster machine on climbs and accelerating, so overall a faster machine. I can get the weight even lower with a wheel upgrade. The Aksium elite Wheelset is around 1785g so an upgrade to a set of HUNT Race Aero V2’s for £369 at 1435g gets it even lighter and adds a wheelset on that nearly every review says made a large difference. Add another £100 for an Ultegra Cassette and some nice rubber and I then have a nice set of race wheels and keep the Aksiums for training. It’s certainly not an upgrade that needs to be made at all but it’s a clear upgrade path should I want to at a later date and my overall level of fitness warrants it.

    I have a few days to mull it over but I am leaning toward the CAAD12 Ultegra, it is £350 more than I was looking to spend but it’s a much better machine and I’d have the support of my LBS.

     

    August 11, 2017 at 1:51 pm #898013
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    kieren_lon

    Thanks Punches.
    Thanks Punches.
    I’m getting a caad12 for £999 .Aside from the bottom bracket, people only have excellent things to say about it.

    I’m spending £30 on mtb pedals with a price match (£30 cranc brothers candy 1). I’ll probably get a helmet from decathlon mail order.

    I can afford new wheels but my rule to myself is that I pay myself an allowance for new things based off the commuting money I save. The train currently costs me £10 a day so I need to cycle a few months before the next treat.

    August 10, 2017 at 10:22 pm #898011
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    Ratfink

    I’ve just scanned most of

    I’ve just scanned most of this thread so sorry if i’m repeating things,I looked at planet x before and i can’t remember the figure but i know the percentage they charged on top was prohibitive using one of the two schemes my emplover uses (cycle plus) I’m sure it was 10 or 15% and they wanted it paid seperately to the voucher.

    I used C2W to get a charge plug 4 for commuting on through Wiggle they have a seperate C2W section of their site and they honour sale prices and charge no admin,The bike was reduced to £665 and that’s what i paid.

    You just fill out your details and they hold it for 30 days until your voucher arrives.

    August 10, 2017 at 9:39 pm #898009
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    Punches Dragons

    Kieron, I think I’ve read

    Kieron, I think I’ve read that Safety equipment is VAT exempt but when they put it into the cyclescheme they then charge VAT on it. You still get it cheaper than you would but the 32%(assuming you’re not a high rate tax payer) you’d save due to not paying the Tax and NI on the safety kit is partially negated by the 20% VAT you now end up paying, which really only gives you around a 12% discount on the safety kit and you may be able to save more than this just by shopping around. 

    August 10, 2017 at 6:55 am #898007
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    kieren_lon

    Thanks Punches – that is all

    Thanks Punches – that is all good advice.   I discounted Merlin too.  Aparently their frames are bought / made bt Ribbble if forums are to be believed.

    Most of my commute is flat (26 mile round trip) and that will be the primary use although I may enter a sportif or race once I have the bike and skill up.

    The bike of the last 12 years has been a simple, steel fuji track fixed gear*  bike at 70 gear inches.  I upgraded the wheels and it weighs about 9kg.   I love the sound of a  light bike and am swayed by it but mostly by heart.  I could lose 10kg body fat and I don’t think 1kg here or there is the end of the world on the bike.

    I think in my case, much like yours as I read it,  there is not a huge margin to separate good bikes from each other and my decision will probaly come down to aftersale care.   I have a large Evans with a huge workshop and good staff near me and not much further a large Decathlon, again with a good workshop and highly rated staff.  

    The CAAD12 105 is £1200 at Evans but they might price match as lots of other shops are listing it at £1000 now.    
    The Btwin Ultra 900 AF with 105 is £800 which leave some change from my £1000 voucher for a set of tyres, helmet and bits and bobs.

    I got my last wheelset handbuild from DCR Wheels.  I plan to get a set of his own brand wheels and run tubless with which ever bike I get.  Budget for those is £420 so I need to ride a bit and save some train fare first 🙂

    I haven’t riden either and am learning towards the CAAD12 however the BTWIN may sway me if it as a slightly less race geometry.  I don’t want to be as upright as a sportif type bike as my flexibilty has improved from riding the fuji but being on the drops on that bike feels a little squashed with higher bottom bracket and (maybe) deeper drop bars.

    ———

    * fixed stigma disclaimer.  I bought this after my geared bike was stolen in 2005.  I wanted something that might be less likely get stolen.  I don’t think hipsters existed in 2005  and I am not one 😉
    I like to go fast so I like that it keeps me at sensible speeds.  It’s not possible for me to sustain much more that 45kph for any length of time.   I will need to develop riding at skill speed when I change to gears / freewheel.

    August 10, 2017 at 6:36 am #898005
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    ibr17xvii
    kieren_lon wrote:
    Good luck.   I’m still on the fence.

    I’m really tempted by the cannondale but Merlin Cycles had some great recutions on at the moment too.

    Does anyone know what the weight of the CAAD12 105 is?  Website reviews say 8.3kg but the Btwin is listed as not much more despite the CAAD frame and fork being significantly lighter.

     

    My 2016 105 (58cm frame) weighed about 8.5kg with bottle cages & GPS mount.

    I’ve upgraded the wheels to a pair of DT Swiss RR21’s & it’s now pretty much bang on 8kg.

    August 9, 2017 at 10:46 pm #898003
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    Punches Dragons

    These are the 2016 weights on

    These are the 2016 weights on a 56cm frame,  I have seen 2017 bikes quoted at slightly lighter weights but not always with the frame sizes given:

    CAAD12 BLACK INC. – 14.8lb (6.71kg)
    CAAD12 DISC Dura Ace – 16.80lb (7.64kg)
    CAAD12 RED -15.84lb (7.2kg)
    CAAD12 DISC Ultegra 3 – 18.34lb (8.34kg)
    CAAD12 Ultegra 3 – 16.5lb (7.5kg)
    CAAD12 DISC 105 5 – 18.96lb (8.62kg)
    CAAD12 105 5 – 17.71lb (8.05kg)
     

    This guy stripped  down his 2016 CAAD12 105and had himself a fun afternoon:

    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137189

    Obviously it will depend on what size frame you go for but between 8.0 and 8.1kg seems to be about right.

    I know I was a little obsessed by weight but that is only one factor to the bikes efficiency and performance. It is just the most easily quotable one and easy to understand but it only follows that a lighter bike will go faster if all the other variables are the same.  As other posters have mentioned, the important thing is the ride of the bike and a lot of that originates from the frame design, materials and construction. I found that one of the hardest things to compare and research but a universal constant was nobody criticized the Cannondales ride, neither in reviews or here on the forum.

    In regard to your B’twin weight difference that is in large part to the superior groupset and wheels on that bike. Where the Cannondale saves weight is the different alloy used and the design process that enables them to make a lighter frame and probably a better ride.  I am not knocking the B’twin but it does not have quite that level of frame design however  you do get some really good componentry to compensate for it.

    I also briefly looked at the Merlin Fuse, It’s a very similar proposition to the Dolan L’etape. I think I discounted the Merlin on the basis of reviews saying it was a little bit dull. They are now putting a Fulcrum wheelset on it which probably makes it feel different to the last review.

    August 9, 2017 at 7:40 pm #898001
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    kieren_lon

    Good luck.   I’m still on the

    Good luck.   I’m still on the fence.

    I’m really tempted by the cannondale but Merlin Cycles had some great recutions on at the moment too.

    Does anyone know what the weight of the CAAD12 105 is?  Website reviews say 8.3kg but the Btwin is listed as not much more despite the CAAD frame and fork being significantly lighter.

     

    August 9, 2017 at 2:21 pm #897999
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    Punches Dragons

    Visited my LBS and was very

    Visited my LBS and was very impressed by what they could offer:

    • A CAAD 105 disc all in at £1200 including the admin fee. I really like the Cannondale in the flesh and the Geometry is not that upsetting at all. It’s a great deal and my LBS would be willing to get the bike in for £200 deposit and keep hold of it till the voucher comes through. They’d even be willing to let me buy it outright and refund the £1000 back on to my card while the voucher goes through so I could have it right away. It’s very tempting.
    • Since they could not get hold of the 105 rim brake version I asked if they could get the Ultegra version. They can do the same deal as above at £1450. It is a bit more than I was looking at but it is an insanely nice and light bike and a really good deal.

    Both bikes still come with the Aksium Wheelset so there is a very obvious upgrade path should I want to at a later date.

    Edit: The disc comes with RD2.0 rims and formula hubs.

    So I find myself pretty convinced by the Cannondale’s now considering I’ll be able to get them from my LBS and have the support and lack of worry compared with an a direct sales internet company or a specialist manufacturer based hundreds of miles away. In some ways this is a shame as I’d rather be supporting a British manufacturer but with the sort of prices available on the Cannondale they are just not as competitive. I just need to take a look at the finances a bit now and see which one I go for.

    Thanks for all your help and contributions in helping me get this far! It’s been a great help.

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