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Tubeless – continue with it or abandon….

  • This topic has 23 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by riotgibbon.
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  • May 18, 2017 at 7:14 pm #27132
    john.berry

    Earlier in the year I decided I wanted to replace the wheels on one of the bikes, I am a big fan of Hope hubs (I am the one that actually likes the sound of the free hub).

    I priced up the hubs, rims and spokes and the price started spiralling up, so I settled on a factory set of Hope 20FivePro 4’s, they appeared to fit the bill and came under my custom build budget, they also came as Tubeless ready if I fancied the dabble….

    When it came time to actually fit the new seasons kit to the bike, I was relishing the idea of fitting the new wheels, and then I ground to a halt, my normal tyres of choice (non tubeless) Conti GatorSkin Hardshells would not fit, even after leaving out in the sun, pre fitting to another wheelset, they simply would not fit!

    It gave me the kick to actually try tubeless, I settled on Schwalbe Pro-One…

    They fitted quite easily and tyre seating was straight forward (I used a Co2 canister), removed the valve core and added 20ml of Stans, pumped it all up to 80psi and everything was good, my world was in sync…

    Everything was good for 900 miles, I did Barry’s Bristol Ball Buster 200k, a long weekend around Snowdonia, and I was starting to get a good feeling about tubeless…

    After getting back from Snowdonia I noted that the tyre pressure had dropped to less than 40psi, on pumping the tyre up ALL of the Stans vomited from a puncture in the tyre (at about 75psi), time to try a plug, it took 2 plugs and the tyre was deformed after the repair, I decided I could not trust it, so tried fitting a new spare Schwalbe Pro One (I would normally expect at least a year and 6000+ miles for a tyre, 900 miles hurt)

    No matter what I tried I could NOT get the tyre to seat, I ended up replacing the rim tape, this appeared to solve the problem, new rim tape was not compressed into the well of the wheel and as such the tyre bead had an easier ramp to the sidewall….perhaps I should try wider Rim Tape? The internal dimension of the rim is 21mm and I used 21mm rim tape, that does not allow for the tape to seat into the internal channel completely?

    Now 600 miles later, I clipped a stone on my lunchtime ride today, more of a pinger than a slicer…

    It appears to have caused a puncture on the tyre shoulder (between the tread and side wall), Stans did not seal it and the tyre went down, I would normally avoid Co2 and Stans, but as time was limited I used Co2 to inflate, The tyre went up and stayed up, no signs of leak, I assumed that Stans was in the wrong place at the wrong time, 10  miles later and the tyre was low pressure again, I re-inflated, 5 miles later low pressure again, I re-inflated with hand pump….

    When I got home I left the bike outside, and hour later tyre was still up and firm…There was no sign of where the puncture was, I pumped it up to 80psi and all was still good, the whilst doing something else, a hissing was heard, and a small fountain of Stans started spraying for a pin size hole, wiping it with a cloth and the leak stopped……I let the tyre down, removed the valve core and added another 20ml of Stans, pumped tyre up, rotated it and let the leaks seal…

    So am I just being unlucky and I should persevere, I have a set of Hutchinson Fusion 5’s to try, just in case its the Pro Ones, they are racing tyres, and I am not a racer!

    Should I just abandon and get the rims replaced so I can use my tyre of choice (Conti Gatorskin Hardshells)

    Or am I doing something fundamentally wrong? I suspect wider rim tape as mentioned earlier would solve my tyre change seating issue, but has nothing to do with punctures…

    And please don’t tell me Tubeless shouldn’t puncture, it is an unfortunate side effect of pneumatic tyres, even Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres puncture (I have had two punctures in 10 years on them)

     

     

     

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  • May 22, 2017 at 10:10 am #893517
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    riotgibbon

    http://www.acycles.co.uk

    http://www.acycles.co.uk/zefal-tubeless-repair-kit-10369.html

     

    don’t use the weldtite pipecleaner style repair kits, they just make the holes bigger …

    May 21, 2017 at 2:00 pm #893515
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    AT80

    John, how have you found the
    John, how have you found the wheelset (minus the tyre issues)? Considering getting a set for myself and haven’t seen any proper reviews on them.

    May 20, 2017 at 4:46 pm #893513
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    mattydubster

    I have been a real fan of

    I have been a real fan of tubeless and definitely think they have a fantastic future in our sport.  I tend to do more gravel specific riding these days and I spent the whole winter on X-Ones.  I rode through everything, and I mean absolutely everything, and at one point I thought I’d inspect my tyres.  I pulled out SEVEN thorns!  The stan’s had obviously sealed them all as they happened and when I pulled them out the Stan’s sealed them again.  So that’s seven times that I’ve managed to avoid being on the side of the road/trail fixing a puncture – to me that means a great deal.  So persist with it!

     

    For the record, I have always questioned the viscocity of Stan’s and I would definitely go with the ‘shake the bottle like mad for ages’ thing to ensure that you’re using it properly.  I am currently waiting for some Specialized Sawtooth 42c tyres and some Orange seal to see how I fair with them throughout the summer…

    May 20, 2017 at 6:25 am #893511
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    Jimthebikeguy.com

    There seems to be a few
    There seems to be a few issues with schwalbe tires seating onto hope rims. Schwalbe and other brands seem to go best onto stans rims; if you have to really inflate them and they dont seat with a very loud bang, then they might not be on properly.

    May 20, 2017 at 1:25 am #893509
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    hsiaolc

    I use Schwalbe Pro S Ones.  

    I use Schwalbe Pro S Ones.   I did use Pro Ones and never had any problem. 

    Never used Stans so can’t comment on them but I have used both Schwalbe sealant and the Orange Seal. 

    Currently I am using the Orange. 

    For 2 years now I have not had an puncture (well I am sure I have but fixed by sealant) and I am extremely happy with them for my commute purposes around London. 

    Both I always add over 60-80ml of sealant to each tyre. 

    May 19, 2017 at 10:18 pm #893507
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    StewartM

    +1 here on the sealant
    +1 here on the sealant importance. My first foray into tubeless was the Huchinson Fusions that my wheels came fitted with. Convenience and timing constraints led me to Orange Seal for the first go.

    I immediately noticed the different feel, so have been commented to making an honest go of it.

    The Huchinsons lasted a poor 4000km, but that coincided with the launch of the Pro Ones, so I grabbed those. Loved them straight off the bat.

    My small initial bottle of Orange Seal ran out, so I ended up with a bottle of Stan’s. And that’s when my tubeless experience went from great to questionable. Cut after cut, sealant piss after sealant piss.

    Lots of patching, lots of tyre off, tyre on faf. Every time I put decent pressure in the tyres, I’d suffer a mid ride spurt. I had a sense that the Schwalbe was on the poor side for longevity, but I liked the feel and convenience. And to be frank, I loved helping riding mates change their tubes by the side of the road as a quaint way of keeping the skill going and feeling smug. The Schwalbe pair were relatively new, so I persisted with them. If I want going to replace the tyres, I decided I was going to swap the sealant.

    Figuring this was the last roll of the dice for tubeless, I went back to the shop and bought a big bottle of Orange Seal, as it had never met me down.

    And you know what? No problem since. All those pesky little cuts that Stan’s didn’t seal have sealed, and I’ve gone a few weeks and about 400km without any further issues.

    Based on this, I’d say the right sealant is more important to your tubeless experience than the tyre itself.

    IMO, Orange Seal for the win.

    May 19, 2017 at 5:03 pm #893505
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    MonkeyPuzzle

    . . wrote:

    . . wrote:

    MonkeyPuzzle wrote:
    I think the wear problem is more of a Schwalbe issue than a tubeless one.

    You are probably right.  Any recommendations for alternatives in the 28-30mm range?

    I still use Schwalbe (G-Ones), because I love how supple and grippy they are, but in the knowledge that’s at the expense of some longevity.

    May 19, 2017 at 3:59 pm #893503
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    peted76

    As an alternative to Schwable

    As an alternative to Schwable, see IRC tubeless tyres – they are supposed to be very good – https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/ Malcolm is the importer, give him a call he’ll help you out.

    May 19, 2017 at 3:56 pm #893501
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    peted76

    Sealant – you’re doing it

    Sealant – you’re doing it wrong, however it’s not your fault.

    Finding the right sealant has taken me from Stans, to Conti Revo and only in Bontrager’s TLR have I found a friend, albeit a friend who needs a bloody good shake every now and again. 

    1) Some of the sealants on the market are just repurposed MTB sealants, totally unsuitable for road (too thick to go through the valve or too thin to seal at higher road pressures). 

    2) Shake the bottle, then shake it again, then shake it again… lots – before it goes anywhere near your tyres. There will be ‘particles’ which might get ‘stuck’ at the bottom of the bottle – these particles are the important bits which react/clog up your puncture – with a greater % of them left in the bottle your holes won’t seal and you’ll end up with a plastic film of fluid all over your bike/clothes/people riding behind you.

    3) You can use 20ml and get away with it, but I personally have found that as it does dry up a little, I can’t quite trust 20ml as being enough so I add 40ml and this has been enough.

    4) Instead of the usual repair kit, I carry a small bottle of sealant (see the bontrager bottles above) half filled and one or two air cannisters depending on the length and dependancy of the ride (although I should just carry a pump and do away with the co2) I don’t bother with a tube any more, or tyre levers, or a patch kit, all of it is surplus to me personally, with the right tubeless set up (rim tape, sealant) in place I’ve so far not been in a position where I’ve had a hole not seal or cannot get to somewhere on a reduced psi.

     

    I run 25mm schwalble pro-ones, and I’ve been through about eight of them and swapped back to conti 4000II’s inbetween – the Pro-Ones are a very ‘plush ride’ but being softer than most, they are not a tyre or a commuter tyre. I had an issue with one not lasting a while ago, contacted them directly, returned it to where I brought it and they replaced FOC., bit of a faff but sorted by the UK schwable team with grace.

     

    FYI I can run upto 4mm  wider tape in comparison to my ‘internal width’ rim. It’s been a learnnig curve, but I’m very happy with tubeless now.

    May 19, 2017 at 3:54 pm #893499
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    . .
    MonkeyPuzzle wrote:
    I think the wear problem is more of a Schwalbe issue than a tubeless one.

    You are probably right.  Any recommendations for alternatives in the 28-30mm range?

    May 19, 2017 at 1:35 pm #893497
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    MonkeyPuzzle

    ^^^ I think that’s more of a

    I think the wear problem is more of a Schwalbe issue than a tubeless one.

     

    I’d say that 20ml of sealant does seem on the low side and I’d agree with the poster above recommending 60ml as a minimum. Re CO2 and re-inflating tubeless at the roadside, I’ve never bothered and just carry a spare tube. That goes for my mountain bike as well, where I can easily reseat the bead with a decent hand pump (remove the valve core) – tuebless tyres run just as well as a standard clincher until you can get somewhere where you can be arsed with seating and sealant and all that jazz.

     

    Tubeless still worth it for the grip and the ride.

    May 19, 2017 at 1:29 pm #893495
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    frankierae

    Just wanted to say thanks to

    Just wanted to say thanks to the OP and the helpful replies on this thread. Great to hear your experience in detail.

    I, like so many others, wonder if I’m missing a trick by not running tubeless. Especially as the bike journos seem to peddle them quite hard. But I keep hearing stories similar to this that make me think it’s a bit too much faff to be worth it.

    Until then it’s GP4000S with quality tubes FTW!

    May 19, 2017 at 1:25 pm #893493
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    . .

    I put S-Ones on for the

    I put S-Ones on for the winter, my first go at tubeless.  Very happy with the comfort, grip and puncture resistance.  But after only 1400 miles, the rear was worn down to the casing. 

    I’d like to keep using tubeless, but they need to last longer than that

    May 19, 2017 at 1:19 pm #893491
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    TypeVertigo
    sergius wrote:
    Everytime I think about it I get put of by the apparent faff of it 🙁

    As mentioned above, it’s £100ish to see whether it works well for you or not.  I managed to go two years without a puncture using tubes, before a rash of 5 punctures in as many months.

     

    One thing that definately puts me off is the whole CO2 canister thing.  I refuse to go out with something that is a one-shot chance of a repair.  If a mini-pump isn’t usable to fix at the side of the road (obv you could just fit a tube with one, but that’s kind of against the point), then I can’t see it ever being mainstream.

    My thoughts exactly…and to think I’m supposedly a prime candidate for tubeless, what with me running 28 and 32 mm tires on my TCX.

    I have never given it a proper go, but I really want to believe in the technology. Whether or not the belief is warranted I’m just not 100% sure yet. Fortunately for me, road tubeless isn’t very tempting yet, as local bike shops here hardly carry any compatible tires.

    May 19, 2017 at 12:46 pm #893489
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    sergius

    Everytime I think about it I

    Everytime I think about it I get put of by the apparent faff of it 🙁

    As mentioned above, it’s £100ish to see whether it works well for you or not.  I managed to go two years without a puncture using tubes, before a rash of 5 punctures in as many months.

     

    One thing that definately puts me off is the whole CO2 canister thing.  I refuse to go out with something that is a one-shot chance of a repair.  If a mini-pump isn’t usable to fix at the side of the road (obv you could just fit a tube with one, but that’s kind of against the point), then I can’t see it ever being mainstream.

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