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Tubeless – continue with it or abandon….

  • This topic has 23 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by riotgibbon.
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  • May 18, 2017 at 7:14 pm #27132
    john.berry

    Earlier in the year I decided I wanted to replace the wheels on one of the bikes, I am a big fan of Hope hubs (I am the one that actually likes the sound of the free hub).

    I priced up the hubs, rims and spokes and the price started spiralling up, so I settled on a factory set of Hope 20FivePro 4’s, they appeared to fit the bill and came under my custom build budget, they also came as Tubeless ready if I fancied the dabble….

    When it came time to actually fit the new seasons kit to the bike, I was relishing the idea of fitting the new wheels, and then I ground to a halt, my normal tyres of choice (non tubeless) Conti GatorSkin Hardshells would not fit, even after leaving out in the sun, pre fitting to another wheelset, they simply would not fit!

    It gave me the kick to actually try tubeless, I settled on Schwalbe Pro-One…

    They fitted quite easily and tyre seating was straight forward (I used a Co2 canister), removed the valve core and added 20ml of Stans, pumped it all up to 80psi and everything was good, my world was in sync…

    Everything was good for 900 miles, I did Barry’s Bristol Ball Buster 200k, a long weekend around Snowdonia, and I was starting to get a good feeling about tubeless…

    After getting back from Snowdonia I noted that the tyre pressure had dropped to less than 40psi, on pumping the tyre up ALL of the Stans vomited from a puncture in the tyre (at about 75psi), time to try a plug, it took 2 plugs and the tyre was deformed after the repair, I decided I could not trust it, so tried fitting a new spare Schwalbe Pro One (I would normally expect at least a year and 6000+ miles for a tyre, 900 miles hurt)

    No matter what I tried I could NOT get the tyre to seat, I ended up replacing the rim tape, this appeared to solve the problem, new rim tape was not compressed into the well of the wheel and as such the tyre bead had an easier ramp to the sidewall….perhaps I should try wider Rim Tape? The internal dimension of the rim is 21mm and I used 21mm rim tape, that does not allow for the tape to seat into the internal channel completely?

    Now 600 miles later, I clipped a stone on my lunchtime ride today, more of a pinger than a slicer…

    It appears to have caused a puncture on the tyre shoulder (between the tread and side wall), Stans did not seal it and the tyre went down, I would normally avoid Co2 and Stans, but as time was limited I used Co2 to inflate, The tyre went up and stayed up, no signs of leak, I assumed that Stans was in the wrong place at the wrong time, 10  miles later and the tyre was low pressure again, I re-inflated, 5 miles later low pressure again, I re-inflated with hand pump….

    When I got home I left the bike outside, and hour later tyre was still up and firm…There was no sign of where the puncture was, I pumped it up to 80psi and all was still good, the whilst doing something else, a hissing was heard, and a small fountain of Stans started spraying for a pin size hole, wiping it with a cloth and the leak stopped……I let the tyre down, removed the valve core and added another 20ml of Stans, pumped tyre up, rotated it and let the leaks seal…

    So am I just being unlucky and I should persevere, I have a set of Hutchinson Fusion 5’s to try, just in case its the Pro Ones, they are racing tyres, and I am not a racer!

    Should I just abandon and get the rims replaced so I can use my tyre of choice (Conti Gatorskin Hardshells)

    Or am I doing something fundamentally wrong? I suspect wider rim tape as mentioned earlier would solve my tyre change seating issue, but has nothing to do with punctures…

    And please don’t tell me Tubeless shouldn’t puncture, it is an unfortunate side effect of pneumatic tyres, even Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres puncture (I have had two punctures in 10 years on them)

     

     

     

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  • May 19, 2017 at 12:17 pm #893487
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    LastBoyScout

    I’ve got a set of Campag

    I’ve got a set of Campag Bullet wheels that are supposed to be tubeless ready, but currently fitted with normal tyres and tubes.

    Would like to try them as tubeless, but the cost of the tyres is putting me off at the moment.

    May 19, 2017 at 10:54 am #893485
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    pablo

    Was listening to a podcast
    Was listening to a podcast think it was cycling tips and their tech editor wasn’t convinced by tubeless on anything under 25mm and even then 28mm and above seemed to be his preference because of fitting and being able to run lower pressures which is the whole point. I’ve got 2 sets of compatible wheels and will give a whirl on the next set of tyres i buy. I’d love to get 6000 miles out of mine generally less than 4k rotating gp4000’s front to back and I normally loose one with a major split or bulge.

    May 19, 2017 at 10:54 am #893483
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    CXR94Di2

    I have Several Schwalbe tyre

    I have Several Schwalbe tyre sets.  I use pro ones(28mm) for sportives with around 90-95psi.  Firstly I noticed you put in 20mil of sealant,  I alway put in 60-75mil minimum.  Nothing is perfect but I find the tubeless system extremely good.  

    Fitting method for me- Stans rim tape-correct width, everything must be thoroughly cleaned with degreaser/alochol before tape applied.

    Fit tyre almost fully, pour in 60-75mil stans sealant(shake bottle before pouring), rotate fluid to other side and fit remaining tyre bead.  

    Inflate with tyre compressor until tyre pops into place, must making pop sound.  I then press wheel against ground around its full circle, rotate in all directions by hand. 

    Job done in 99% of occasions, but if it still leaks, deflate tyre, apply soapy water around bead section re inflate.

    Worst puncture I’ve had was on my mountain bike where 10mm wide flint tore a big gash in tyre, it lost 90% of pressure and was nearly flat, made for slow riding, but it got me home.  This unfortunatley had to go onto inner tube(with sealant inside)

    I also use Continental tubulars and use stans sealant in them also.

     

     

     

    May 19, 2017 at 10:27 am #893481
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    iso2000

    Interesting read. I bought a

    Interesting read. I bought a pair of Hunt wheels last year with Pro-Ones already fitted as tubeless. I never got round to using them and put S-One (now G-One speed) tyres for the winter, again tubeless. I have been really happy with these, maybe it is the wheels but they seem to be so much faster than the old GP4s I was using with the old wheels.

    I have been thinking of trying the Pro-Ones but your post has persuaded me not to bother and I’ll stick to the S-One. Any offers for a pair of unused Pro-Ones?

     

     

     

    May 19, 2017 at 7:11 am #893479
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    john.berry
    nadsta wrote:
    http://www.cyclingweekly.com/reviews/pumps-puncture-repair/orange-seal-tyre-sealant

    If the words are fact, that sealant looks good, certainly I think my main issue is sealant not standing up to pressure…

    May 19, 2017 at 7:08 am #893477
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    john.berry
    kevvjj wrote:
    Can I ask what tyre size you are running?

    They are 23 mm

    kevvjj wrote:
     60psi is more than enough pressure – any higher and the bike rides like a it’s on solid tyres. I am 75kg and the bike is 8kg. I ask this because I don’t believe that sealants like Stans are designed to work under high pressures (typically 30 psi or less in a MTB tyre where the system was first developed).

    I think I will start trying to run them at lower pressure, And I will swap the Pro Ones for teh Hutchinson Fusion 5’s

    kevvjj wrote:
    Don’t forget that for larger holes you can patch the tyre from the inside rather than use plugs – gon’t throw that 900 mile tyre away just yet.

    Tyre not thrown, and I have just bought a tubeless tyre patch kit to fix it 🙂

    kevvjj wrote:
    As for not being able to seat the new tyre, did you thoroughly clean the inside of the of the rim to remove any dried sealant? Did you use soapy water on the bead of the tyre? I find doing both of these makes a big difference.

    Yep all signs of old sealant removed, soap and water on bead, I tried everything…But I guess I will find out again soon…as I think the small shoulder pinhole is not holding up, so will need patching 🙁

    Based on your input I will continue, but adjust my approach a little..

     

    May 19, 2017 at 6:38 am #893475
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    nadsta

    I had terrible luck with Pro

    I had terrible luck with Pro Ones despite positive reviews here. I had both tyres booted within 500 km, and I generally puncture once or twice a year MAX (annually 10k km) including daily London commutes. 

    My kit kit ended up covered in sealant, LBS’s didn’t  want to frig with tubeless and i stopped trusting the tyres on long rides. The sealant would  pressure despite briefly  (25mm @ 70 psi) then blow a few kms down the road. Ride feel improvements were minimal compared to aggro given I rarely punctured anyway. Went back to tubes & vittoria corsa’s 

    i may may have been running too high a pressure for MTB sealant but otherwise front felt flat when out of the saddle. 

    Since then this sealant has been released-supposed to be good

    http://www.cyclingweekly.com/reviews/pumps-puncture-repair/orange-seal-tyre-sealant

     

    May 19, 2017 at 6:24 am #893473
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    Anonymous

    Can I ask what tyre size you

    Can I ask what tyre size you are running? I run 25mm Pro Ones on Ultegra rims (tubeless) and find 60psi is more than enough pressure – any higher and the bike rides like a it’s on solid tyres. I am 75kg and the bike is 8kg. I ask this because I don’t believe that sealants like Stans are designed to work under high pressures (typically 30 psi or less in a MTB tyre where the system was first developed). Under high pressures I believe the sealant does not have time to fill the hole and simply spurts out (as you have experienced). Don’t forget that for larger holes you can patch the tyre from the inside rather than use plugs – gon’t throw that 900 mile tyre away just yet.

    I think you have been unlucky but the Pro Ones really aren’t an everyday tyre, their soft compound and lightweight mean they will be more puncture prone than your gatorskins.

    As for not being able to seat the new tyre, did you thoroughly clean the inside of the of the rim to remove any dried sealant? Did you use soapy water on the bead of the tyre? I find doing both of these makes a big difference.

    Road tubeless is most definitely a faff. I have stuck with it but I’m not convinced that it is worth it on a road bike. Simply using MTB technology on a road bike was never going to work. I think we need ‘road’ sealants to cope with the higher pressures for starters.

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