Tubeless versus Tubular

madcarew wrote:

check12 wrote:

Tubular tyres have higher rolling resistance than the best tubeless (pro one) and normal tubed tyres (4000s etc. ) so less/no temptation to go for them for me. http://Www.bicyclerollingresistance.com 

I’d like to see the figures to back this idea up. I strongly suspect it isn’t true.  To my non-encyclopaedic knowledge, apples for apples, the best tub vs the best tubeless wins hands down on rolling resistance…. not that you would notice the difference.

On the OP

The main reason to use tubulars is weight and ride. Both of these to my mind are only important in a race situation. Tubed or tubeless for commuting and training, and if you want the very best tubs for racing. There’s not much point in my mind to have lightweight tubs and then fill them with 100g of gunk. That’s what the spare wheels in races are for. I throw my tubs away after a puncture as fixing is such a faff.

Vittoria Corsa Speed Open TLR is better than Vittoria Corsa Speed Tubular which is almost the best rolling tubular on the macket. 

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/schwalbe-pro-one-ht-tubular-2017

madcarew wrote:

Hmmmm, I think I’ll have to change to your glue.

I use the Vittoria stuff in a black tube.

Once you’ve done it a couple

Once you’ve done it a couple of times, changing a tubular doesn’t take any longer than changing an inner tube; in fact I think I’m probably quicker at tearing off a tub and replacing than I am at pulling off a clincher, fitting a new tube and remounting the tyre. Plus, you don’t get “inner tube pinch” anxiety.

The reason I don’t commute on tubulars (Veloflex Roubaix user here) is nothing to do with the time taken to fix a flat; it’s that a piece of glass can write off a £70 tyre.  So it’s Lithions for me on the commute bike, despite the fact that tubulars offer a noticeably nicer ride, which can be enjoyed and appreciated even when out for a weekend spin rather than in a race.

Mungecrundle wrote:

Mungecrundle wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

This tubular sealant and spare tub you guys are carrying, how much does that weigh?

 

 

50g for a bottle of sealant, probably 5g for the valve core widget. Never bothered taking a spare tub. Pretty similar to the weight of puncture repair patches and tyre levers? Tubeless with sealant pre added; I’d feel reasonably confident not even taking a pump. So just the weight of the sealant already in the tyres. However a tubular version of the same wheelset should be lighter in the first place.

50g for sealant sounds acceptable. Was imagining a large heavy can 

Going to make the switch later in the year to tubulars. The weight difference between tubulars and clinchers is too good to ignore any longer… Worth even a little extra hassle. Last sticking point was the repair kit. Thought maybe carrying a heavy spare tub and a can of crap would have made it not worth it.

Think I could get away with going without the spare for most rides and maybe force myself to take it on 100 mile + efforts. Something like that.

unconstituted wrote:

unconstituted wrote:

This tubular sealant and spare tub you guys are carrying, how much does that weigh?

 

 

50g for a bottle of sealant, probably 5g for the valve core widget. Never bothered taking a spare tub.

Pretty similar to the weight of puncture repair patches and tyre levers?

Tubeless with sealant pre added; I’d feel reasonably confident not even taking a pump. So just the weight of the sealant already in the tyres.

However a tubular version of the same wheelset should be lighter in the first place.

I use tubulars on my good

I use tubulars on my good bike (Continental Competitions at the moment), they are light, have a supple ride (probably more in my head), and I actually enjoy the 3 day pre gluing, tyre stretching and fitting ritual, but then I only do so every couple of years. They are re-assuringly expensive and a bit blingy. I also use disc brakes and there is something appealing about the idea that the rim has only 2 functions: aerodynamics and a concave glueing surface for the tyre. i.e it does not have to also hold a tyre bead under pressure, or provide a braking surface. My all up wheel weight (Reynold Assaults, tyres, valve core extenders, brake discs, skewers and cassette comes to 2230g which I reckon is pretty reasonable for a bullet proof aero wheelset.

As I only use them on my good bike they don’t get high mileage or used unless the roads are dry. They do pick up nicks and gouges. Sharp stones can make holes down to the latex liner, however only 1 puncture which was laughably easy to fix. I always carry some Tufo tyre sealant a small plastic valve core widget and a pump. Remove core, squeeze some sealant into the tube, refit core, pump up, watch as brown bubbly froth at site of puncture seals itself like magic. Far far easier than wrestling a reluctant clincher off a rim any day.

Only just moved to tubeless on my MTB as I was getting a puncture pretty much every time I even went near a bridleway. They are infested by blackthorn cuttings all year round! I had been putting it off as it seemed a bit pfaffy, but I found a nice set of Shimano M765 wheels on eBay of a similar vintage and fitted some Schwalbe Nobby Nic’s. It was actually easier than I thought it was going to be, but only with the use of a friend’s compressor to get the tyres seated. Having added sealant, no punctures and you can just pull the thorns out leaving little green pinpricks of sealant. The bike, even on the nobblies, seems to have less rolling resistance.

With that experience, and assuming I had a suitable way of seating the tyre on the rim (maybe road bike tubulars can be seated with a good track pump?), I would definitely choose tubeless over clincher, and probably tubeless over tubular for a cheap set of wheels on a second best road bike. Add some sealant, fit and forget.

check12 wrote:

Tubular tyres have higher rolling resistance than the best tubeless (pro one) and normal tubed tyres (4000s etc. ) so less/no temptation to go for them for me. http://Www.bicyclerollingresistance.com 

Yes that one site that uses one wide alloy rim for the test then yes, there’s a smidge in it for the best tyre they have tested in favour of tubeless, does that apply to all tubeless v tubular at all pressures on all rims, on all surfaces, no it doesn’t.

Added to which that corsa speed is wafer thin, you won’t get many miles out of it and more likely to get a puncture that the sealant won’t fix in which case putting in a tube it’ll no longer be the fastest tyre will it…

They also tested the Gp4000SII in a 25mm which when fitted was 27mm measured, 2mm wider than the corsa speed tubeless (so a bit more comfortable right), they also fitted a heavy 100g tube, personally I’ve got on okay with supersonics because of the vectran puncture resistance of the 4000, so at say at a nt unreasonable 80psi you’re looking at 2-3 Watts difference between the fastest tubeless and a GP4000SII clincher with a supersonic or latex tube, have more puncture resistance and a couple of thousand more miles before needing replacing, for me there’d be no temptation whatsoever.

riders rarely get their sweetspot bang on anyway with respect to front to rear pressures but if you’re swapping a whole wheelset or two just to save a few watts either on a commute or a weekend ride out/audax/extortionate noddy hat ride then that’s crackers IMHO.