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Anyone with real life experience with these tyres?

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  • January 3, 2017 at 4:20 pm #26618
    AWP

    I’ll try to be brief.

    I decided I’d try to get through the winter on a pair of Conti GP4000Sii (28mm). Whether I’ve been unlucky I can’t say but I’ve had a particularly bad run of punctures mainly from flint/stones to the point that I have had to patch the rear twice (never had to do this before) and likely it will have to be skipped if it happens again. Never seen a tyre looking so cut up.

    Looking around at options, with a view to trying tubeless, I have a short list. I’ve read the reviews but could anyone, with actual experience of the following tyres, care to make any recomendations? All options would be 28mm.

    Continental GP 4 Seasons – although tubeless ability is unknown?

    Hutchinson Sector 28

    Panaracer Gravel King

    Schwalbe S-One Evo (might be called G-One Speed now?)

    Hope you can help.

    Thanks

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  • January 4, 2017 at 10:22 pm #884341
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    hsiaolc

    Ok let me give you another

    Ok let me give you another perspective. 

    I also had conti 4 seasons.  Actually I still have them.  Used them for half a year (2 years ago one winter) and never will it be on my rims again. Cant compare the tubless’s comfort level.  When you can run 50 psi or less it is a god send.  The puncture proof is a plus but I get it for comfort and doesn’t seem to sacrifice any speed either. 

    Hence I want to go bigger to 32mm so I can dip below 50 psi to around 45. 

    January 4, 2017 at 9:58 pm #884339
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    FatAndFurious

    I’m a strict Conti fan with

    I’m a strict Conti fan with the experience of having tried a whole _two_ different tyres. The Schwalbe Ultremos that came with the bike peeled apart under no more than a stern stare.

    I can’t fault the tube’d 4000s II tyre for the riding I do – quiet country lanes which are pretty clean and dry most of the time, though often that grumbly tar/gravel dressing surface. I run 23mm at 110psi at a rider+bike weight of 90kg. These easily last me a full season – 6300km this year. I’ve had one puncture per year on average with them under these conditions, and only one of them might have been avoided with tubeless (a classic rock strike puncture). Whilst not knowing your roads, I reckon either I’ve been very lucky, or you’ve been simply unlucky.

    Regarding the Conti 4 seasons, I can only report a single experience of a distinct improvement in grip when in super-soak conditions on a super-smooth surface over the 4000s tyres. That may also be down to running 25mm 4 seasons at 95psi, giving a bigger contact patch, but they were noticably more assured. In the dry, I can’t tell the difference. Since I’m not hanging it out round hairpins at 30mph though, that’s not surprising.

    Tubeless strikes me as a potentially messy solution to a problem I don’t particularly have, so am happy to stick with tubes.

    January 4, 2017 at 9:44 pm #884337
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    davel

    +1 for armadillos.
    +1 for armadillos.

    I commute on a CX bike and have MTB armadillos on that as well as my winter roadie. Punctured once a week on various CX tyres: ripped to bits by shale shards, got thorns through sidewalls.

    Must’ve done a combined 5,000 miles since without one puncture.

    January 4, 2017 at 9:33 pm #884335
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    HalfWheeler

    I’m on Specialized Armadillos

    I’m on Specialized Armadillos.

     

    I literally can’t remember the last time I punctured, perhaps the tail end of 2014, beginning of 2015. You won’t win the Tour on them that’s for sure but they’re bomb proof. I’ve done 10,000 miles plus on them over the years on 2 or 3 punctures, max. Sometimes the tread will wear all the way down to the casing and you’ll have to replace the tyre but you won’t have punctured in that time.

    January 4, 2017 at 9:32 pm #884333
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    hsiaolc

    Tubeless for road is awesome.

    Tubeless for road is awesome.  

    I’ve used Schwalbe Pro one for about a year. 

    Then I wanted bigger tires so I am running the Schwalbe S one – changed to G one for some reason and very confusing. 

    I have been runing the S One since the summer and so far they are holding up well and the best about tubeless is  you can run much lower psi than normal and it is extremely comfortable.  One of the best thing ever and since the S One I’ve been running at 50 psi without problems. Feels very fast but just soaks up all the road uneveness. Likes on clouds. 

    Not sure what one talked about not sealing.  I was riding in regents one morning and you can virtually see the puncture happening in real time and the sealent leaking out and I thought to myself thats it I have to push the bike to work.  Guess what? two spins the leaking stopped and I didn’t have to do anything about it at all and it is sealed.  Brought smiles to my face!! 

    So far with tubless for two years commuting in central london and no one puncture.  The ones that seals themselves I don’t consider that puncture. 

    I want to go for something with 32mm but Schwable not offering any atm.  

    Very interested in Vittoria Graphene + tubless but it is too narrow. If they bring anything over 30mm I will give it a go immediately. 

    January 4, 2017 at 9:25 pm #884331
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    mattydubster

    Hi all

    Hi all

     

    Just thought I should mention that I have both Schwalbe S-Ones in 30mm (summer) and have just switched to Schwalbe X-Ones for winter and can mount both of these comepletely tubeless with just a Lezyne mini pump.  I have never been into the big soapy water compressor thing and when they were advertised as ‘tubeless easy’ I thought they were possibly telling porkies….I was a bit shocked when they went up straight away.  Tubeless is awesome.

     

    Just my tuppence worth 🙂

     

    Oh, and FWIW, the wheels are Novotec disc and I have put a layer of gorilla tape inside the rim (feels quite thick) to help keep them airtight.

    January 4, 2017 at 8:19 pm #884329
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    Anonymous
    BBB wrote:
    As usual, people running tubeless tyres recommend them (based on overwhelmingly positive experience) and those who never tried them, quote the whole list of “problems”… with the technology…

     

    Well… I have been using tubeless since 2002 on the MTB. Would never go back to tubes. However I have only recently experimented with road tubeless, and in my opinion there is still some way to go. The main issue is the high pressures used in road tyres. Get a decent hole and the sealant simply spurts out under all that pressure, making a mess of your frame and never getting a chance to seal the hole. By decent holes I mean those casued by sharp stones such as flints – so no real advantage over tubes in this instance. I think road specific sealant is needed (startup anyone?). However, the wider 28C and 30C tyres should be able to run lower pressures and might not be so quick to lose the sealant. The other issue is rim brakes vs disk brakes. You rarely see rim brakes on MTBs anymore but it’s the reverse with road bikes. If you live in a hilly area you are constantly heating up the rim and the sealant dries out much, much quicker than a disc brake rim (there’s also less sealant in a road tyre vs MTB tyre). I have run Schwalbe pro ones and initially had a few punctures – each time it was because the sealant had dried up.

    So, in my opinion the real advantage of tubeless is the ride quality and not the resistance to (non pinch flat) punctures  – on average I have had no less punctures than with tubes. The Shwalbe pro ones for example are a beautiful, fast tyre and, run at 70-80 psi (25c) they are magical to ride on. I don’t care what anyone says though, they ARE a faff and they are messy! In conclusion – MTB, ages old technology now and well embedded – a no brainer. Road tubeless? I’m still not convinced.

    January 4, 2017 at 7:57 pm #884327
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    Johnnystorm

    “If you do puncture out in
    “If you do puncture out in the countryside and the tyre needs topping up some are a nightmare to re-inflate. Fitting a tube means you’ve got to carry one, negating one of the advantages of the system.”

    If you get a puncture in a tubeless tyre you’d have also got it in a tubed one, you’d have also probably dodged a few thorns that would have taken out your tubes. I always carry a tube regardless of set up, I’m not going to be be stuck at the side of the road waiting for a patch to stick.

    I don’t see carrying a spare tube negating an advantage, after all I’m not ‘carrying’ tubes in my wheels.

    “I recently passed a rider with just this problem, his mini-pump wouldn’t even begin to put air in the tyre and I wasn’t giving him my spare tube as I had another ninety miles to ride.”

    Don’t blame you. But the same would’ve applied if he was tubed and didn’t bring adequate kit with him.

    “The sealants have a definite and short life in the tyre and will need renewing every few months. They’re not cheap and the job is messy, messy, messy.”

    Every few months means three times a year perhaps? As for messy, what are you doing? Either remove a valve core and squirt down the valve with the nozzle many sealant bottles have or slip over the plastic pipe that others have. Failing that, pop the bead, pour some in and rotate the wheel before putting the tyre back. It’s really simple.

    I’m happy to do that in the comfort of my garage when I want to rather than an unplanned roadside fix in the rain.

    “The sealants will also bung up your valves, making inflating tricky or even impossible.”

    Not in my experience with stans, nrg or bontrager sealant or indeed with a homemade mix of latex/antifreeze.

    For road/gravel I’ve had good experiences with wtb Nanos although one of the tyres is a bit weepy in the sidewalls and for pure road I’ve just fitted a set of panaracer gravel kings in 32c. Only done 75 miles on them but so far so good and went up with the Bonty flash charger easily. No weeping from them.

    January 4, 2017 at 7:49 pm #884325
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    BBB

    As usual, people running

    As usual, people running tubeless tyres recommend them (based on overwhelmingly positive experience) and those who never tried them, quote the whole list of “problems”… with the technology…

     

    January 4, 2017 at 5:59 pm #884323
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    mike the bike

    wycombewheeler wrote:

    wycombewheeler wrote:
     
    …..  but the benefit is not saving the weight of a tube, it’s in having to stop for a puncture once in 100 rides (or fewer) instead of once in 10……[/quote]

    One in ten rides gets a puncture?  Are you sure you’re fitting a tyre over your tubes?

    I ride six days a week, in all weathers, over very mediocre roads and cover between 4 and 5000 thousand miles a year.  I’ve averaged less than one flat per year for as long as I can remember, which is about one every 300 rides.  And not all those have resulted in a roadside fix; sometimes a slow leak has got me home where I can work in the warm garage.

    The secret is to buy top quality tyres and tubes, keep them inflated and to occasionally flick out the embedded flints.  I’ve had really good luck with Schwalbe tyres, everything from their ‘One’ to the epically reliable ‘Durano Plus’.  

    As I said in my earlier post, I am not anti-tubeless, exactly the opposite in fact, but I believe the manufacturers are rushing a half-baked technology onto the market and it will backfire on them.  After faffing about with short-life sealants and tyres that won’t inflate, customers will give up and abandon the idea.

    January 4, 2017 at 4:39 pm #884321
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    Penny_Lane_Cyclist

    I cannot fault GP4000s. I run
    I cannot fault GP4000s. I run them on my nice road bike, old Road bike and commuter.

    Fast, very grippy, very rarely puncture – despite the rubbish Liverpool roads.

    I haven’t yet tried the 4000s II’s or a 28mm version as my 4000s have lasted so long..

    January 4, 2017 at 2:23 pm #884319
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    graybags

    I’ve run Conti GP4000ii’s for

    I’ve run Conti GP4000ii’s for that last two winters with only a couple of punctures (famous last words now !), used to run 4 Seasons but frankly were no better and the grip was definitely poorer. I’ve got Schwalbe One’s on my summer bike, which gets used quite a bit in the winter and they have been fantastic, wear rate has been superb.

    January 4, 2017 at 10:26 am #884317
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    peted76

    wycombewheeler wrote:

    wycombewheeler wrote:
    mike the bike wrote:

    If you do puncture out in the countryside and the tyre needs topping up some are a nightmare to re-inflate.  Fitting a tube means you’ve got to carry one, negating one of the advantages of the system.  I recently passed a rider with just this problem, his mini-pump wouldn’t even begin to put air in the tyre and I wasn’t giving him my spare tube as I had another ninety miles to ride.

    The sealants have a definite and short life in the tyre and will need renewing every few months.  They’re not cheap and the job is messy, messy, messy.

    The sealants will also bung up your valves, making inflating tricky or even impossible.

    Yes you still need a tube as sealing a tyre even with a track pump will need soapy water and is not something I would attempt by the road. but the benefit is not saving the weight of a tube, it’s in having to stop for a puncture once in 100 rides (or fewer) instead of once in 10. I recently fitted a tubeless, there was almost zero mess, small bottle of sealant with a nozzle that fitted into the valve (core removed) empty sealant into pre sealed tyre, (fit and seal empty then deflate, fill then reinflate.) I went with schwalbe s ones. very happy with them.

     

    Wycomewheeler is doing it wrong. However saying that tubeless can be tricky to get right in my experience, where as tubes are always very simple. 

    I run tubeless and have done for nearly two years now, I’ve never fitted a tube on the side of the road, I’ve not the patience and I’d rather call the family taxi. What I do carry, is a small half filled bottle of bontrager sealant (the best for high pressure road tyres in my experience) and an air cannister, it’s easy to pop the valve out, refill sealant and inflate if it’s required in an emergency. 

    To be fair I should probably get a mini pump instead of the cannister as pressurised air shouldn’t ideally be used with sealant, but it’s a quick fix, light and easy to carry.

     

    January 4, 2017 at 9:25 am #884315
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    AWP

    Thanks for the input. 

    Thanks for the input. 

    I’m very familiar with tubless from MTB so am well aware of the pros and cons. I’ve just been a little slow on the uptake when it came to road use, probably because I’ve always seemed to get off lightly. These last few weeks the law of averages appears to be making up for lost time.

    I’m going to give the Schwable S-Ones a go, just need to find stock.

    Thanks again.

     

    January 3, 2017 at 11:05 pm #884313
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    wycombewheeler

    mike the bike wrote:

    mike the bike wrote:

     

    I’m in full agreement that tubeless is the future and confidently expect to be using the system at some point.  But there are a couple of things that make me believe the technology is not yet ready to be sprung on the majority of cyclists.  Anyone, like me, who rides bikes for fun and never races should be aware that there are significant drawbacks:

    If you do puncture out in the countryside and the tyre needs topping up some are a nightmare to re-inflate.  Fitting a tube means you’ve got to carry one, negating one of the advantages of the system.  I recently passed a rider with just this problem, his mini-pump wouldn’t even begin to put air in the tyre and I wasn’t giving him my spare tube as I had another ninety miles to ride.

    The sealants have a definite and short life in the tyre and will need renewing every few months.  They’re not cheap and the job is messy, messy, messy.

    The sealants will also bung up your valves, making inflating tricky or even impossible.

    The choice of tubeless tyres is very limited and the prices are, quite frankly, exorbitant.

    Fans of tubeless make much of the fact that ‘snakebite’ punctures are impossible.  I do get the odd flat, about one -per-year on average, but it’s always thorns or flints.  I haven’t had a pinch-flat for twenty years.

    But all this will change I’m sure and one day we’ll all be riding tubeless.  But I’m happy to wait until the ease of use equals the tubed tyres we know and love.

     

    Yes you still need a tube as sealing a tyre even with a track pump will need soapy water and is not something I would attempt by the road.

    but the benefit is not saving the weight of a tube, it’s in having to stop for a puncture once in 100 rides (or fewer) instead of once in 10.

    I recently fitted a tubeless, there was almost zero mess, small bottle of sealant with a nozzle that fitted into the valve (core removed) empty sealant into pre sealed tyre, (fit and seal empty then deflate, fill then reinflate.)

    I went with schwalbe s ones. very happy with them.

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