Group riding – what if the lead riders aren’t riding safely?

peted76 wrote:

Sounds like this whole thread is a bit of a non question, you’re in a group of mixed abilities and ages, some who appear not to have ridden together before, some are a bit serious and grumpy some are chatting and carefree, it’s in France after the etape… meh!

As a newbie, I guess it’s good that you recognise some non fluid riding styles, but from someone who rides with all sorts of groups, I find you need to recognise and adapt to the group dynamic and or be prepared to promote a particular group dymanic.

So in answer to your first post, yes you are being a bit of a sensitive snowflake 🙂

 

 

I think you’ve confused me with the original poster – I was just retelling a story from over 10 years back about an incident that stuck out – no real clear hierarchy or articulation of the rules, and as Jimmy Ray Will said, “no one ever takes the time to constructively tell them what they should be doing… instead there is the unvocalised forcing of will upon them” – of course I took the piss out of the old duffers!

edit – I’m one of the old duffers now, but I have learnt to not try to impose an unspoken set of rules by sheer force of will on an unsuspecting group of riders, competent or otherwise!

fenix wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

fenix wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

one ride I did I was treated like a pariah at the coffee break – the younger riders all had good handling skills, would go through and off briskly, and happily ride two abreast and chat. The “old skool” riders really didn’t appreciate it one bit – they would sit at the front for 5 minutes and slow the whole group down – looking back I guess they were less used to crashes and possibly afraid of breaking a hip or something!

 

Crashes on the club run are to be avoided. If as you say the youngsters had great skills – why did they crash more ? I’m voting for the elders.

 

If the youngsters want a faster crashier club run – go off by yourselves.  The NHS is quite good these days.

 

 

This was not a club run, just a one off group ride to see a tour de france time trial stage from a hotel in France. The older, more experienced members of the group seemed overcautious to me.

Obviously it was not a case of wanting a crashier ride, but of having crashed in general – the younger members of the group were far more relaxed, more confident riders, and the older members tried to take charge and impose their own overcautious approach on the entire group.

 

 

So was it your club or not ?  And were  the older riders newly hatched Mamils or veteran cyclists ? As far as I know – crashing hasn’t been invented recently and the older riders are probably just wiser. 

 

If the pace was too slow – why didn’t you just tell them you wanted to get there a bit quicker and go up the road ?  

 

And was overcautious just ‘riding a bit slower than you like’ ? 

 

More questions than answers I’m afraid !

no not a club, we’d all done the etape a few days earlier and there were riders of mixed abilities and experience in the group – I saw myself as one of the weaker riders. There were two basic social groups together, one of riders in their late 20’s to early thirties, and another of guys around mid to late 40’s, all fairly competent riders.

There seemed to be two issues – firstly, the younger guys seemed to go through and off a lot quicker, doing one minute turns at the front, and maybe 2-3kmh faster. The older group members stayed at the front for 5 minutes, and obviously the pace slowed a little, but there was no real issue with anyone leaping off the front or getting dropped.

The other issue seemed to be with chatting and taking a more relaxed, fun approach, which seemed to be quite frowned upon by the more serious older group. I guess they thought that we were challenging their “authority” a little.

Perhaps another small factor was a bit of a north-south divide, while not a cause in itself, it did seem to add a little to the idea that the younger group of “southerners” weren’t taking it seriously enough.

Some of the younger members did seem to “fall into line” – trying to associate themselves with the serious riders. I myself was occasionally riding two abreast and chatting – it was a 55km ride each way and I was on holiday, and being used to riding a certain way in London traffic, I seemed to bear the brunt of their displeasure.

We were on French country roads, and while there were some heavy freight coming past at speed, there was also no kerb, so we were actually riding out of the lane and technically off the road over the kerb line.

beezus fufoon wrote:

fenix wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

one ride I did I was treated like a pariah at the coffee break – the younger riders all had good handling skills, would go through and off briskly, and happily ride two abreast and chat. The “old skool” riders really didn’t appreciate it one bit – they would sit at the front for 5 minutes and slow the whole group down – looking back I guess they were less used to crashes and possibly afraid of breaking a hip or something!

 

Crashes on the club run are to be avoided. If as you say the youngsters had great skills – why did they crash more ? I’m voting for the elders.

 

If the youngsters want a faster crashier club run – go off by yourselves.  The NHS is quite good these days.

 

 

This was not a club run, just a one off group ride to see a tour de france time trial stage from a hotel in France. The older, more experienced members of the group seemed overcautious to me.

Obviously it was not a case of wanting a crashier ride, but of having crashed in general – the younger members of the group were far more relaxed, more confident riders, and the older members tried to take charge and impose their own overcautious approach on the entire group.

 

So was it your club or not ?  And were  the older riders newly hatched Mamils or veteran cyclists ? As far as I know – crashing hasn’t been invented recently and the older riders are probably just wiser. 

If the pace was too slow – why didn’t you just tell them you wanted to get there a bit quicker and go up the road ?  

And was overcautious just ‘riding a bit slower than you like’ ? 

More questions than answers I’m afraid !

FatBoyW wrote:

The older riders were not as fit so were struggling to keep up maybe?

or you might be like our club young ones. Great skills and individual turn of speed, no concept of how to ride a group, sudden speed changes and going off only to suddenly fizzle out. All of which causes danger in the group and crashes! 

Love this thread of grumpy gits! Btw plenty of Castelli on show and assos on our runs.

seriously best to ask who is leading and is the group stopping for mechanicals/punctures before the ride starts, helps everyone to focus on group riding and you know who is leading!! All good

A few things here – lack of clarity about who is leading, and an assumption about what the accepted rules are – on my ride there were no actual incidents, but what was noticable was the way in which it was “expected” we would know what was expected of us, and even after the “rules” were obviously broken, still no one would actually say what those rules were and what should’ve been done differently!

fenix wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

one ride I did I was treated like a pariah at the coffee break – the younger riders all had good handling skills, would go through and off briskly, and happily ride two abreast and chat. The “old skool” riders really didn’t appreciate it one bit – they would sit at the front for 5 minutes and slow the whole group down – looking back I guess they were less used to crashes and possibly afraid of breaking a hip or something!

 

Crashes on the club run are to be avoided. If as you say the youngsters had great skills – why did they crash more ? I’m voting for the elders.

 

If the youngsters want a faster crashier club run – go off by yourselves.  The NHS is quite good these days.

 

 

This was not a club run, just a one off group ride to see a tour de france time trial stage from a hotel in France. The older, more experienced members of the group seemed overcautious to me.

Obviously it was not a case of wanting a crashier ride, but of having crashed in general – the younger members of the group were far more relaxed, more confident riders, and the older members tried to take charge and impose their own overcautious approach on the entire group.

beezus fufoon wrote:

one ride I did I was treated like a pariah at the coffee break – the younger riders all had good handling skills, would go through and off briskly, and happily ride two abreast and chat. The “old skool” riders really didn’t appreciate it one bit – they would sit at the front for 5 minutes and slow the whole group down – looking back I guess they were less used to crashes and possibly afraid of breaking a hip or something!

Crashes on the club run are to be avoided. If as you say the youngsters had great skills – why did they crash more ? I’m voting for the elders.

If the youngsters want a faster crashier club run – go off by yourselves.  The NHS is quite good these days.

one ride I did I was treated

one ride I did I was treated like a pariah at the coffee break – the younger riders all had good handling skills, would go through and off briskly, and happily ride two abreast and chat. The “old skool” riders really didn’t appreciate it one bit – they would sit at the front for 5 minutes and slow the whole group down – looking back I guess they were less used to crashes and possibly afraid of breaking a hip or something!

It will take more than a
It will take more than a couple of outings to adapt your riding to the group style. Especially if you are unused to riding in close proximity with other cyclists. It takes a fair bit of trust in the rider in front to sit 4 inches off their back wheel at 20 mph plus. Likewise the niceties of taking a turn on the front, not overlapping wheels, picking up the calls and signals that are vital to group communication. But it’s another set of skills that are fun to learn.

If the club has been around for some time it might be fair to assume that the ride leaders are actually reasonably competent. Ultimately though, if you are still not comfortable and depending on how the club is set up, you could suggest breaking into smaller groups or join a steadier group.