Group riding – what if the lead riders aren’t riding safely?

My 2c worth:

My 2c worth:

The OP said the front left leader rode too close to the kerb. If they’re regularly swinging out to avoid drains etc, then I think that’s not helpful for anyone’s safety. Taking a  moderate line seems to be the norm.

The leaders are extrememly reluctant to take a whole lane… I agree with this. Though I do little riding in town, most of it is on the equivalent of b Minor A roads or B roads, I don’t think using the whole lane on either of these is very smart at all. 

The point of car up and car back (in our local parlance). A s someone said, it’s good for car / cyclist relations (IMHO) to show willing. In NZ a vehicle obstructing the carriageway (travelling significantly slower than the main stream of traffic) is required to move off the road at the first opportunity to let faster traffic through, so on all rides, where we are to the right of the kerb line, we single up when a car is behind to at least show willing. This does result in plenty of close passes, but to my mind it ‘feels’ safer than being doubled up. 

Personally I don’t like groups bigger than 10 or 12 as I think it’s just too big for most roads (12 cyclists double file is  about 150m long. Like having an artic lorry moving along the road at 15 mph. That’s just rude to other road users.)

@ beezus fufoon – err yes I

@ beezus fufoon – err yes I appear to have mingled your anecdote with the OP, whoops.

Vote for CAR/Tractor/Bus/Lorry UP and XXX DOWN over here 🙂

riotgibbon wrote:

is this too many rules:

 

https://700cc.org/road-etiquette/

 

I don’t disagree with any of them, but …

I’d say that’s pretty basic knowledge from experience and what I would expect a group to do

You cannot ignore cars just
You cannot ignore cars just because you don’t like sharing road space with them. On a narrow country road “Car up!” may well be followed by a “Single out!” to allow space to pass. “Car back!” alerts the front rider to indicating if it is safe for a motorist to pass given his / her better view of the road ahead. From my point of view it is always safer to control a situation, this is not about deferring to the motorist. I would far rather they were past safely and away than behind and frustrated.

Likewise you would always call out other road users (horses, dog walkers, runners, slower cyclists) each of which requires special consideration to pass safely and courteously.

It is absolutely in the interests of safety that everyone in the group is aware of the hazards around. It is also important that anyone feels comfortable to call something if they think the group need to be alerted.

Up/Down may be traditional

Up/Down may be traditional but they’re confusing to new riders. Front and Back work better for me.

FatBoyW wrote:

Call cars from behind as ‘UP’ cars from the front as ‘DOWN’.

This being the main complaint I had! I’ve heard the logic of that Car Up / Car Down call as Up your arse and Down your throat.

However I always insist on Car Up (front) and Car Back (behind) as they are less open to misinterpretation. What’s more I make that clear in any ride I’m leading as the last thing you want is someone in the group using Car UP to mean there is a car behind and someone else using exactly the same phrase to mean oncoming car from the front.

beezus fufoon wrote:

FatBoyW wrote:

The older riders were not as fit so were struggling to keep up maybe?

or you might be like our club young ones. Great skills and individual turn of speed, no concept of how to ride a group, sudden speed changes and going off only to suddenly fizzle out. All of which causes danger in the group and crashes! 

Love this thread of grumpy gits! Btw plenty of Castelli on show and assos on our runs.

seriously best to ask who is leading and is the group stopping for mechanicals/punctures before the ride starts, helps everyone to focus on group riding and you know who is leading!! All good

A few things here – lack of clarity about who is leading, and an assumption about what the accepted rules are – on my ride there were no actual incidents, but what was noticable was the way in which it was “expected” we would know what was expected of us, and even after the “rules” were obviously broken, still no one would actually say what those rules were and what should’ve been done differently!

We rarely if ever have clarity about who thinks they are leading and then the other leaders (riders) in our groups attempt to dictate this or that rule. As for the rules – this is cycling!  None of the rules are really clear except a few obvious ones about not crashing. The rules are unwritten for a reason 🙂

In a sport where there about 100 rules on sock length let alone anything else you have to learn to accept the art of group riding as well as the science.

Anyway for my penny’s worth the basic rules I have picked up are (sure I have missed a few!): 

Don’t overlap. Dont change speed/direction suddenly. Indicate and call out hazards – even when you are behind others doing the same. Dont ride exactly in line – slightly off to one side. Keep it tight and tidy. Stay relaxed especially if you touch bars. Use your back brake first when slowing on a descent. Dont go too fast dont go too slow. Dont look at your bottle cage. Don’t eat in the middle of the group (well dont unwrap complicated food). Always cover you brakes unless on the front.  Winter = Mudguards.  Call cars from behind as ‘UP’ cars from the front as ‘DOWN’. Ensure you are properly fitted to your bike and use your core to keep the rear wheel from waggling. Press hard down on the pedal when standing to avoid your wheel ‘popping’ backwards into the rider behind. Don’t moan. Don’t half wheel.   Ride no more than 10cms back and 3 cms to one side of the rear wheel of the rider in front. Position your bike to benefit the rider behind in relation to the wind.  Ride smoothly – especially doing through and off.  Above all keep your concentration and enjoy your riding!

I love riding in a group but I am welll aware I’m s**t at it so always willing to be told summat I haven’t thought of – most of my mates seemt be of the opine that I should learn to ride faster up hills!

de faster!