- This topic has 130 replies, 44 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 10 months ago by
Matt eaton.
-
CreatorTopic
-
August 4, 2014 at 11:01 pm #22071
Leviathan
[Yes, this is another Ride London 100 thread] So the weather for this weekend is looking 50/50, which raises the prospect of doing a sportive event in the rain. Recently there has been a couple of threads of interest, one about a gent who hadn’t done enough training for the RL100, and another about fear of descending. I’ve clocked up many miles this year and even some hills and at least years event topped out at 73kph coming down off Leith Hill, a speed I have never got anywhere close on an open road (anything over 50 is a bit worrying).
Believe me it rains in Manchester, like anywhere else, but commuting to work it totally flat. If I am out on a training run I don’t tend to set off in the wet and if it starts coming down I don’t need to push it downhill.
The answer is obviously not to take any risks (it’s not a race right? I don’t want to be in hospital with a broken leg, I have a train the catch.) The problem is if I am going up hill slowly and then downhill slowly too I have no chance of bettering last years time. I need the fast downhills to average my pace out. But if it is sketchy I am going to be on the brakes all the way down. I don’t want to be hit from behind by someone with a bike that makes swooshy noises as it goes by. How to maintain a reasonable pace in the wet or just recalibrate my expectations?
yours Sincerely, Thor Hushovd.
-
CreatorTopic
-
AuthorReplies
-
truffy wrote:Perhaps it’s the
truffy wrote:Perhaps it’s the use of the word ‘sportive’ that’s to blame? Sounds too close to ‘sporty’. If Ride London was described as a ‘noodle’ then everyone would know what to expect!The choice of the word ‘sportive’ is no accident. It fits with how organisers of sportives want them to be portrayed i.e. a sporting event (ish, becouse it’s officially not a race 😉 ) It’s all part of a product design aimed at a particular target market. The word even sounds like sport-ish which is probably a good description of sportive riding.
mudshark
Maybe they should cut out
Maybe they should cut out those who estimate a fast completion time and hjust leave the less competitive to enjoy a gently ride?!truffy
Perhaps it’s the use of the
Perhaps it’s the use of the word ‘sportive’ that’s to blame? Sounds too close to ‘sporty’. If Ride London was described as a ‘noodle’ then everyone would know what to expect!Jimmy Ray Will
First up, my understanding of
First up, my understanding of the Ride London is that it was on closed roads… therefore could legally call itself a race. Infact there was coverage of the ‘winner’, who being someone I know, will receive some tongue in cheek banter about ‘winning’ a sportive. So…. its all a bit grey with regards to that particular event.However, english sportives are not races. If people insist on saying that they are, and acting like they are, then they will end up being legislated accordingly.
The current stance of ‘greyness’ is only a short-mid term thing… within ten years there will be a clear split between events more or less as they are now but more clearly defined as non-competitive, and more continental style sportives… these are run much like the mass participation races you commonly see for large scale running events (as highlighted above).
The point is, you can not currently race on the open highway unless certain parameters are met/adhered to. English Sportives do not adhere to these, so by ‘racing’ them you are effectively breaking the law.
So yes, half the perceived snobbery out there may well be about racing cyclists reacting to what they see as delusional talk of racing a sportive, but the other half is about protecting a fun pastime from far stricter legislation that will change the face of sportive riding.
The ‘problem’ I have with sportives is that they support and mentor an attitude of entitlement in riders… in as much as those ‘competitive’ sportive riders feel that they are entitled to turn up to any event and feel competitive. This only becomes a problem should they wish to take up organised racing, and they expect to turn up and find a level of racing for them, rather than accepting that its up to them to reach a minimum fitness standard in order to compete.
This is compounded by the fact that the type of fitness required for sportive riding is very different to that required for racing… ultimately this puts off too great a percentage of competitive riders away from competitive cycling.
paddyirish
@Matt Eaton
I’m taking part
@Matt EatonI’m taking part in my first audax at the weekend. This bit is part of the appeal
devoid of timing chips and energy gels; and with more tea and cake or even a pub stop half way round.
though I will miss the closed road of the Sportives. Guess you can’t have everything…
JeevesBath
notfastenough wrote:Anyone
notfastenough wrote:Anyone who’s the ridden the 52 mile route on the Great Manchester Cycle will know that the front of the event looks an *awful* lot like a race. Last year the pointy end was about 50 riders averaging 24mph (and was about 3mph too quick for me to hold onto it), with different groups and clubs surging and taking turns on the front to keep the pace high. Those taking part do so because there is no other local event which provides a closed 13 mile circuit on wide, properly surfaced roads.No doubt those people consider themselves the bees-knees for doing so, and look down their noses at the ‘numpties’ who just bimble along for the ride. But consider that the numpties might be doing it on their own, with no-one to draft or share the the workload, while being on heavy bargain basement bikes that don’t have power meters and the like. Then also consider these ‘numpties’ will be out in bad conditions for far longer, with the only result being their personal satisfaction at having completed a personal endurance challenge. They won’t go to the pub afterwards and gloat about how they ‘smashed’ anything, but they may just say what a life-changing experience it was and recommend that their friends give it a go.
I know which group I respect the most.
farrell wrote:bikeboy76
farrell wrote:bikeboy76 wrote:If this was football (yes I am going to talk about that sport) you are telling sunday morning pub team players (like my nephew) to sign up to Kettering Town and play in the lower leaguesSlight point of order, but if they are playing for a Sunday league pub team, then they would already be in a lower level league.
I picked Kettering town because they are in the 8th tier of the league structure. If your local pub/social team is in the 15th tier then you are in the sportive not Cat4. It was an analogy.
farrell
bikeboy76 wrote:If this was
bikeboy76 wrote:If this was football (yes I am going to talk about that sport) you are telling sunday morning pub team players (like my nephew) to sign up to Kettering Town and play in the lower leaguesSlight point of order, but if they are playing for a Sunday league pub team, then they would already be in a lower level league.
This has become a silly
This has become a silly semantic argument. Calling it a race does not condone the 0.5% of people who might act riskily. If it was an Egg and Spoon race you wouldn’t expect someone to chop across lanes to knock out his rivals, but a race it would still be. I saw two crashes out of thousands of riders and I don’t know how they happened. It seen like there are people out to demonise sportive riders who want to try their hardest as dangerous wannabees. As far as I am concerned when you attach a timing chip to your bike you will encounter people going fast, if you want to go right look over your shoulder, you should be used to it from the road. If it looks like a duck, etc…Meanwhile, those saying that sportive riders should enter a race, well you have already been told by S13SFC that he has done what you want and can’t get into a race. Someone has started another thread actually discussing how fast/good you have to be to enter even the lowest level of racing and it is not something 90% of those on RideLondon could achieve. If this was football (yes I am going to talk about that sport) you are telling Sunday morning pub team players (like my nephew who wanted to be a pro but guess what, wasn’t actually that talented) to sign up to Kettering Town and play in the lower leagues. 1. He isn’t that good. 2. Kettering Town wouldn’t pick him anyway. 3. He doesn’t have time to train hard enough to improve his level. 4. He can still be competitive doing what he is doing.
You would need to introduce a Cat 5, 6 and 10 to accommodate everyone who wants to compete. Telling someone who ‘races’ a sportive that they should enter a proper race is telling them to ‘do one’ because you know they probably aren’t good enough; you are telling people they are not allowed to compete because they aren’t good enough. Elitist twaddle.
Just because you are not on the 12th rung of some ladder that goes all the way up to Nibali doesn’t mean you can’t take what you are doing seriously. And saying you are racing a course doesn’t mean kicking people over to get to the line 1 second quicker; we are not all Cav.A Sportive is a Sportive, some of the people saying how much they distane them have already excluded themselves. If you know the nature of the beast why do you insist on condescending to people who enjoy them and take them seriously because that is their level. Sportives are becoming more popular because they cater to everyone. And even if the only person you can say you beat was yourself, isn’t that worth working hard for? So the naysayer and elitists will just have more grist to their mill as sportives are where the growth is and they are not going away.
oozaveared wrote:deblemund
oozaveared wrote:deblemund wrote:Why’s everyone getting so cross? Chill out and go for a bike ride or something!On other threads we all seem to very critical of the idiots in cars that think they are on a race track when they are just on their way to work. Their objective is to win, to not be overtaken, to get past obstructions as fast as they can. The fact that they think they are in a race all the time even when mostly everyone else is just travelling makes them a menace. They are bad drivers psychologically unsuited to driving. I expect if they were taking the bus or the train they’d be shoving in the queue and treating other passengers as competitors pushing their way past more polite people on their way to win the race to an aisle seat. Just because they are on a bike doesn’t make them less of an annoying juvenile w**ker. I dare say some of the other people on the bus or train likewise think that if these areseholes are so keen on pushing and shoving to win something why don’t they join a Rugby club. I expect it’s the same problem. They like to push and shove to win when nobody else thinks its a rugger match but they’re careful to avoid being on a real rugby field with real rugby players.
Since I am very critical of drivers that think the road is their racetrack, likewise I am critical of fellow cyclists that think a charity bike ride is the one day classic.
I agree with you totally on this, even in racing, there’s no justification for dangerous behaviour, especially at entry level. However, we are drifting onto a different topic. We’re not talking about a charity bike ride, we are talking about sportives. The ‘sport’ part of the title is the big clue. Charity rides don’t (or certainly shouldn’t) have the hallmarks or a race whereas sportives always do. The things I’m talking about include timing chips, the publishing of results, feed stations (especially when full of race-day nutrition products) and, in this exmple in particular, following the route of a pro race.
I’m very critical of sportives for replacing charity rides. This has forced charity riders into the sportive scene and I’d like to see more charity rides, devoid of timing chips and energy gells; and with more tea and cake or even a pub stop half way round.
notfastenough
Anyone who’s the ridden the
Anyone who’s the ridden the 52 mile route on the Great Manchester Cycle will know that the front of the event looks an *awful* lot like a race. Last year the pointy end was about 50 riders averaging 24mph (and was about 3mph too quick for me to hold onto it), with different groups and clubs surging and taking turns on the front to keep the pace high. Those taking part do so because there is no other local event which provides a closed 13 mile circuit on wide, properly surfaced roads.oozaveared
deblemund wrote:Why’s
deblemund wrote:Why’s everyone getting so cross? Chill out and go for a bike ride or something!On other threads we all seem to very critical of the idiots in cars that think they are on a race track when they are just on their way to work. Their objective is to win, to not be overtaken, to get past obstructions as fast as they can. The fact that they think they are in a race all the time even when mostly everyone else is just travelling makes them a menace. They are bad drivers psychologically unsuited to driving. I expect if they were taking the bus or the train they’d be shoving in the queue and treating other passengers as competitors pushing their way past more polite people on their way to win the race to an aisle seat. Just because they are on a bike doesn’t make them less of an annoying juvenile w**ker. I dare say some of the other people on the bus or train likewise think that if these areseholes are so keen on pushing and shoving to win something why don’t they join a Rugby club. I expect it’s the same problem. They like to push and shove to win when nobody else thinks its a rugger match but they’re careful to avoid being on a real rugby field with real rugby players.
Since I am very critical of drivers that think the road is their racetrack, likewise I am critical of fellow cyclists that think a charity bike ride is the one day classic.
andyp wrote:’At most
andyp wrote:’At most mass-participation running races (like marathons) you will see people in silly costumes and often ramblers, who intend only to walk the course. These folks don’t have any intention of winning; they may not care whatsoever about their finishing time. Nonetheless they are participating in a race.’Indeed. The clue is in the name. ‘mass-participation running race’. That’ll be a race. Not a sportive.
That’s the point. Sportives aren’t labbelled as races to avoid the legal implications and interferance from governing bodies but in every other respect they are races. Saying that it’s not a race because it doesn’t have the word ‘race’ in it’s title is rather naive.
Anyway, I’m off out to buy a new bum support, stop sticks and road grippers as you now need a licence to own saddles, brake levers and tyres.
andyp
‘At most mass-participation
‘At most mass-participation running races (like marathons) you will see people in silly costumes and often ramblers, who intend only to walk the course. These folks don’t have any intention of winning; they may not care whatsoever about their finishing time. Nonetheless they are participating in a race.’Indeed. The clue is in the name. ‘mass-participation running race’. That’ll be a race. Not a sportive.
Daveyraveygravey
Quote: Well said! I hate the
Well said! I hate the elitist attitude among many racers (and club riders) that you aren’t a real cyclist if you don’t compete in the evening TT down the bypass or zoom along the lanes in your peleton all in the same jersey every Sunday.
I pushed myself on RideLondon, really pleased with the time I got. Was I racing? Not sure, I wasn’t racing any particular person, but I wasn’t bimbling along either and was very conscious of my time/progress. I’d love to spend £5k on a bike and spend all week riding it, but I don’t have the time or the money.Well I don’t think it’s elitist to say that a sporting event under a codified set of rules which matches riders of similar ability in a race is not the same a mass charity ride my friend. If you think these are the same sort of thing then that is delusional. Not bimbling along and completing the course is admirable. I am huge supporter of Ride London. But it’s not a race. The race was in the afternnoon. It was a different thing entirely and I really enjoyed that as well.[/quote]
Did you read what I wrote, my friend? I’m talking about the elitist and arrogant attitude among many club riders and racers I meet who look down their noses at cyclists who don’t partake in those activities. I didn’t say anything about sportives, so wasn’t making any “delusional” comparison.
-
AuthorReplies
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.