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Rear wheel pulling out of dropouts

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  • January 16, 2014 at 8:34 pm #20490
    Jack Osbourne snr

    Dear Learned Friends,

    Any sage advice welcome to help solve an annoying issue…

    On and off, for about two years, I have found myself pulling my back wheel out of the dropouts when climbing out of the saddle. I’m getting very fed up having to stop and reset my wheel on hills.

    Wheel pulls out of drive side dropout and wedges on non drive seatstay
    Frame and dropouts are titanium
    Wheels are Prolite Bracciano

    I’ve tried a few things, but nothing seems to work consistently:

    Changed stock open cam skewers to closed cam levers.
    Added serrated washer to drive side
    Experimented with monster clamping force and different lever positions

    Any ideas how to stop this? Would roughing up the dropout surfaces help? If so what with and by how much?

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  • January 18, 2014 at 7:44 pm #768687
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    Jack Osbourne snr

    Thanks to all for your
    Thanks to all for your suggestions.

    I’ve pretty much ruled out the realignment option until the final, last, ultimate, nothing left in the bag moment due to the likely difficulty in fixing anything because it’s all Ti.

    So here’s my plan of attack over the next few weeks (this is my Sunday fun bike as the daily commute requires something more tank-like, so it’ll take a while to test).

    1. Clinical clean of dropout, axle and QR mating surfaces (again)
    2. As above plus light scuffing of dropout with summat rough
    3. As above plus liquid torque or similar
    4. As above but buy new QR with sharp serrations
    5. Bite bullet and ride bike to mechanical wizard for alignment check
    6. …

    Basically, least-most cost in order of attack. In the interests of info for all I’ll report back after each stage.

    One other thing I might try in the last resort region is a flat drilled bracket bolted to the mudguard eye which would hold the skewer in place…or Allez neg’s tabbed washer suggestion.

    If anyone has any other ideas, please post them here.

    January 18, 2014 at 11:50 am #768685
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    allez neg

    It’s a bodge but el cheapo
    It’s a bodge but el cheapo bikes have a tabbed washer that goes underneath the wheel axle nut and the tab goes into a slot in the dropout. Brompton from wheels too I think. Could you do something similar – a nice meaty QR skewer and some tabbed washers. Perhaps some local engineering place could make summat up. An MTB skewer may be suitable as it’s a bit longer as mtb hub spacing is wider. (?)

    January 18, 2014 at 11:35 am #768683
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    dave atkinson

    or this’n is a bit cheaper
    or this’n is a bit cheaper and less specifically for carbon

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ritchey-liquid-torque/

    January 18, 2014 at 11:34 am #768681
    0
    dave atkinson

    Jack Osbourne snr wrote:
    Dave

    Jack Osbourne snr wrote:

    Dave – what is this magical anti slip compound of which you speak? Tell me more

    this kind of thing:

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/finish-line-fiber-grip-carbon-fibre-assembly-gel-50ml/

    there’s different variants but basically they contain particles to give a better grip between surfaces. designed for carbon components that you don’t want to overtighten, but might be of use in your case too

    January 17, 2014 at 9:59 pm #768679
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    drfabulous0

    Basic mechanical design, the
    Basic mechanical design, the material removed from the dropout with the cutouts probably isn’t helping and the opening seems to be a little wider than normal, being Ti as well and given you have tried everything else my guess is it’s the dropout itself that’s the problem. the first thing I would do is get it to a top mechanic and have the alignment checked and corrected if possible. Failing that I would consider having a frame builder replace both dropouts with a more functional set, even if they aren’t so pretty.

    January 17, 2014 at 9:29 pm #768677
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    Gareth W-R

    Try carbon paste, its a bit
    Try carbon paste, its a bit gritty and gives more grip…. May work.

    January 17, 2014 at 9:22 pm #768675
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    Jack Osbourne snr

    BTW Flying Scot… I’m
    BTW Flying Scot… I’m guessing “your” wheel builder is a tall gentleman who works out of Clachan of Campsie?

    January 17, 2014 at 7:20 pm #768673
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    Jack Osbourne snr

    The hub ends do have

    The hub ends do have serrations and after a bit of cleaning round the dropout last night, I was able to feel where that face had bitten into the inside of the dropout.

    Thinking about it, this suggests that the clamping strength is actually okay and the issue is friction/biting-in related on the QR side? Serrations may indeed be the answer.

    So…. Scuff up the dropout faces a bit?

    Would anti-vibration washers be any better than the inside faces of the QR?

    January 17, 2014 at 7:04 pm #768671
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    Flying Scot

    Apparently you need either
    Apparently you need either very hard or very soft QR faces, so that they either bite or deform.

    A wee bit of wet and dry wouldn’t go amiss where it mates.

    Are there serrations on the inside (hub side)?

    I’ve got Record and 105 hubs here, both are.

    January 17, 2014 at 7:02 pm #768669
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    Fringe

    Have you tired bolt on
    Have you tired bolt on skewers?
    These work well, can get them to 8nm.

    http://store.halo-usa.com/c/skewers_bolt-on?pkey=3e15699d0187b52489eb5e8bcc9e3c93&ckey=1018099.1078420.0.0.0

    January 17, 2014 at 7:01 pm #768667
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    Jack Osbourne snr

    Flying Scot wrote:
    Some

    Flying Scot wrote:

    Some skewers don’t bite the Ti hard enough, he says most dura ace or campag ones will bite, you need to look for some that have good serrations.

    Another very valid possibility.

    I had assumed it was the clamping power bonus with the closed cam design of DA and Campagnolo more than the serrations.

    I’m a Campag guy, so I happened to have one lying around from an old wheelset and tried this about a year ago. This seems to be the most successful recommendation elsewhere on t’internet.

    Guess what… It didnae work for me :”(

    Dave – what is this magical anti slip compound of which you speak? Tell me more

    (I did at one point consider super-gluing the QR nut to the drive side dropout)

    January 17, 2014 at 6:41 pm #768665
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    dave atkinson

    Have you tried using an
    Have you tried using an anti-slip compound on the dropouts? Would help the qrs to bite.

    January 17, 2014 at 6:13 pm #768663
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    Flying Scot

    Okay, spoke to ‘my’ wheel
    Okay, spoke to ‘my’ wheel builder.

    Some skewers don’t bite the Ti hard enough, he says most dura ace or campag ones will bite, you need to look for some that have good serrations.
    There are apparently some boutique ones made for the job, but they are expensive.

    January 17, 2014 at 1:48 pm #768661
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    Jack Osbourne snr

    All suggestions welcome.
    All suggestions welcome. Someone else with a similar issue might get a eureka moment even if it doesn’t solve my own issue. Look after the next generation etc etc…

    My feeling is that the dropout being titanium and therefore preventing much of the ‘bite’ of the QR is the root of the problem. how would I get round that? Does anyone do skewers with titanium friction surfaces?

    January 17, 2014 at 11:47 am #768659
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    Flying Scot

    I thought that might be the
    I thought that might be the case, but thought I would post this in case someone with cup and cone hubs found it useful for the same issue.

    The inside of the QR and the hub outer nut faces should have serrations in them to allow a ‘bite’ make sure these and the drop outs are clean and free of paint or grease. – Though I imagine you’ve already done this!

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