When Team Sky’s Chris Froome won yesterday’s stage of the Tour de France on the top of the iconic climb of Mont Ventoux, he and team principal Sir Dave Brailsford knew that the rest day press conference would be dominated by questions about doping. Sure enough, they came out with all guns blazing this morning. Froome repeated that he is not cheating and Sir Dave challenged reporters to tell him what it would take to convince them.
Initially, it seemed Froome wanted to sidestep the issue though. Asked about the suspicions that he might be doping, he said: “I can only be open and say to people, I know within myself that I’ve trained extremely hard to get here. All the results I get I know are my own results… Outside of that, I can’t talk about that; I can’t talk about that other stuff. I know what I’ve done to get here and I’m extremely proud of what I’ve done.”
But them a comparison with Lance Armstrong got Froome’s back up. “Lance won those races but that aside, to compare me with Lance… I mean Lance cheated, I’m not cheating. End of story.”
Planned performance, Ventoux recce
Sir Dave Brailsford picked up the baton shortly afterwards.
“We planned that performance for quite some time,” he aid. “Chris has been out to Ventoux to recce the climb, thought very carefully about how to ride it, how to ride as a team. And when you see that performance unfolding in front of you exactly as had been planned for some time, and Chris rode so fantastically at the end to win the stage, it was quite an emotional thing to watch.
“And the first thing that crosses my mind, having jumped in the air and punched the air, is not: right, that’s my five minutes of joy gone, let’s get on to the doping questions. Which happens everyday.”
“You’re asking me, how can I prove to you that we are not doping? You’re all asking the same questions. We wrack our brains every day.”
A WADA solution
Brailsford reiterated his reluctance to release his riders’ power data, but suggested that perhaps monitoring of the team on the lines of the biological passport system would work.
“We’ve been thinking about the biological passport and how that works with an appointed panel of experts… If you extrapolate that thinking forward I think we’d be quite happy, we’d actually encourage, maybe WADA to appoint an expert and they could have everything that we’ve got. They could come and live with us, they could have all of our information, see all of our data, have access to every single training file we’ve got. We could then compare the training files to the blood data, to weight… All of that type of information they could capture on a consistent basis.
“And it seems to me WADA are a good body to sit and analyse all that data. And they then could tell the world, and you, whether they think this is credible or not.”
Brailsford then issued his challenge to the world’s cycling press.
Get your heads together
“Rather than asking us all the time to come up with some creative way to prove that we’re innocent, why couldn’t you… get yourselves together … and you tell me, what would prove it for you, what could we do? … Get your heads together and come to me and say, well this is what we think we would like in order to prove to you beyond reasonable doubt that we are not doping.”
“Bottom line is, it’s a rest day, it’s 10 o’ clock in the morning and I’m trying to defend somebody who’s doing nothing wrong. I’m quite happy to do it, and I’m more than happy to try to convince you guys that we’re not doing anything wrong, but I need a little bit of help. I think, in coming up with a way about how the hell we do it.
As for Froome, he was clearly angry and frustrated at the direction the conference was going.
“I just think it’s quite sad that we’re sitting here the day after the biggest victory of my life yesterday, quite a historic win, talking about doping,” he said.
“And quite frankly, I mean, my team-mates and I, we’ve slept on volcanoes to get ready for this, we’ve been away from home for months, training together, just working our arses off to get here, and here I am, basically being accused of being a cheat and a liar and… that’s not cool.”
And with that, Froome left the room to talk to the TV crews that were waiting outside the Sky team bus.
64 thoughts on “Froome & Brailsford speak out on doping, issue challenge for way to prove Sky is clean”
And that Lance is the legacy
And that Lance is the legacy you have left our sport. I hope you are pleased with yourself you lying cheating bastard as everyone else now has to try and prove innocence which is nigh on impossible.
Well done!
Beautifully put,Sir. It’s sad
Beautifully put,Sir. It’s sad really. I watched that stage twice and felt great for him. Maybe he’s just that good? Well done Froome and f*#k you Armstrong!
Armstrong’s legacy is one of
Armstrong’s legacy is one of the worst aspects of the whole affair. Even in the 1950s and 60s, it was being suggested that riders were “on something”. I think it was Jacques Anquetil who said: “You don’t expect us to do this on mineral water, do you?” But Armstrong’s behaviour has changed all that, with his cynical manipulation of the system and its regulations. I really do think it’s a terrible shame that Froome wasn’t allowed to celebrate his victory on Mont Ventoux without having to face a barrage of questions about doping. Everyone needs to listen to people like Brailsford and work towards a way of making such “journalistic” questions a thing of the past.
Thoma Frei thinks he knows
Thoma Frei thinks he knows the answer.
“Thomas Frei @thomasfrei
@PaulKimmage @DavidWalshST you guys heard already from Gas6 (Growth arrest-specific 6)?”
A better substance than EPO
http://www.vib.be/en/news/Pages/Progress-toward-an-alternative-for-EPO—Gas6-offers-remedy-where-EPO-fails-today.aspx
Will this be causing red faces at SkyBC?
I’m sure there are many, many
I’m sure there are many, many completely legitamit medical products out there that if you read about what they did would sound like a cyclists dream ticket.
In fact, next time you’re in Boots have a look a the rear of the iron supplements…
Gas 6 would have only a
Gas 6 would have only a marginal effect on cycling performance as its main benefit over EPO is that it raises red blood cell production back to normal and does not /cannot produce an excess of red cells. EPO ‘works’ for cyclists because it allows for a greater production of red cells which means more oxygen for the muscles. If a rider were highly fatigued GA6 would raise his/her red blood cell count back to normal but it does not work at the same speed as EPO or a blood transfusion so it would require a course of several days of administration to have any effect.
Sky’s doping secret is what Arsene Wenger referred to in football as Money doping. Buy the best riders, give them the best back up staff, hire the best sports scientists and you will get the results. They will continue to get the best results until a sheikh Mansour or equivalent gets interested in pro cycling and buys an equivalent team.
Decster wrote:Thoma Frei
From the way Decster is
From the way Decster is talking, he clearly reckons Chris Froome is doping!! why dont you provide your factual evidence to the world doping agency, instead of commenting on other peoples suspicions, i myself think your wild accusations are based purely because of your dislike for Team Sky or british cycling, if it was any other rider giving the same performance, you would say nothing, for one thing im sure, if you made a personal allegation public through a media outlet, giving your full name address and contact details, directly to chris froome, youd have a legal challenge on your hands!! but like so many, very brave to cast aspersions and non factual allegations hiding behind a keyboard!!
Aint easy to prove your
Aint easy to prove your innocent when you hire doping doctors for your team and then pretend you didn’t know they were a doping doctor. :B
Have riders come from the grupetto to win GTs and think no one will be suspicious.
Dont release any info relating to riders.
Team Telekom had journalists embedded at the TdF when they had a team wide systematic doping program. Walsh is a patsy for Sky.
We have been here before and we already know the ending. Sky are doping.
Decster – I’ve seen a number
Decster – I’ve seen a number of your comments over the last few days making definitive statements that Sky are doping. You have no way of knowing this and you seem to revel in negativity and cynicism.
After Festina, Cofidis, Armstrong and the myriad other doping scandals to engulf the sport I can totally understand having doubts and the need for Sky to answer many questions but you’re confusing conjecture with fact. There is no evidence that any Sky rider is doping.
Frankly, your cynicism is pretty ugly – I would rather watch Froome’s stellar performances and believe in them than assume everything I see is a flat out lie. I’d be gutted if I was proved wrong but who wants to view the world through such cycnical eyes?
Now for some conjecture of my own – no doubt your response will be that I am naive and kidding myself. So be it, I think I’ve covered my stance above.
It really does seem like you’re more concerned with being contrary and occupying some mythical high ground than the real state of the sport. It’s sad that this is what the widespread cheating in the sport has done to some of the fans but drawing conclusions without evidence is unfair and a real leap from simply asking questions.
Decster wrote:Aint easy to
Who is we? Don’t delude yourself into thinking you speak for the majority because you don’t. Brailsford has offered to have WADA live with Team Sky and have access to ALL their data. He isn’t going to release data to numpties like you who see conspiracies coming out of every nook and cranny and who wouldn’t know the slightest thing about analysing valid data. You boy need therapy.
Suggest you get yourself some
Suggest you get yourself some accreditation and rock up to Sky’s next press conference with your evidence in hand.
In the mean time, given the weight of evidence, I hereby accuse you of being a bell-end.
Ref the Gas6 comment – surely
Ref the Gas6 comment – surely it’s not a test for EPO perse, rather a hermaocrit level that’s the giveaway?
Everyone knows its an arms
Everyone knows its an arms race between the dopers and the authorities, its probably realistic to think that the latter are a step behind in some respects. As a sport, we are now at the point where, if you dope, you WILL be caught, because samples are being kept and retested to the end of time as the science advances. So, it’s a question of whether you think Froome, Brailsford etc would be shortsighted enough to dope now, for a few years glory, before being caught in the longer term. They don’t come across as arrogant, and certainly not as stupid, so what other explanations are there? People aren’t just accusing them of doping, but being f***ing stupid enough to think they could get away with it indefinitely.
As for transparency, DB was perhaps naive to think they could publish power data without giving away too much info to rivals, and stuff that’s open to interpretation by any dimwit with a PHd in pseudoscience with dumbf***ery on the tinternet. Which is why his suggestion of a WADA observer is a good one.
Apply all this to your own job. If I put months of work into something which turned out awesome, only for people to make snide comments and suggest I cheated, I’d be mightily pissed off.
notfastenough wrote:People
+1 – I’d even take the “indefinitely” off the end. If they are doping (I choose to believe they’re not, for so many reasons) they will be caught and caught soon.
notfastenough wrote:Apply all
“I have never taken performance enhancing drugs”. It’s thing that is trawled out by every doper ever. I’m not saying that this condemns team Sky, but it’s a record that has been spun over and over.
The cynics are correct to be cynical. Recent history says that there is a high likelihood that the winner of the TdF will have doped. And you know what, it was all the idiots who lapped up Lances ‘I feel sorry for those that can’t believe’ cr@p that pissed me off as much as LA himself. They were as bad as he was in some ways. They didn’t question him, and what he claimed and allowed him to spin on.
I admit that I don’t like the way that Froome is unable to at least live in the moment without it being tainted – after all there is no proof. And you have to hope that for prosperities sake we find out which, categorically. I appreciate that being too cynical spoils things, but perhaps we need also to keep a healthy level of doubt. I am heartened that Team Sky have shown suffering. It makes them human. But equally, Froome has not suffered in the same way.
What I would like to see it the blood passport results. I would also like to see hematocrit results on a regular basis. What we know is that hematocrit falls, we also know about the predominance of young blood cells and old blood cells in clean blood and doped blood. But I don’t see any of that being dished out – just power readings, which do little because it’s the underlying mechanics that matter – though it is a clue at least.
One thing we know for sure is that no one dopes to finish last.
Colin Peyresourde wrote:”I
OH MY GOD, F**K OFF!* What the F do you people want them to say?
*Is what I would say if I was Cav or Froome and answering this question for the one hundredth time.
Decster+co., you think you can prove that what you see isn’t true by just saying it can’t be so. You are not another Paul Kimmage sat on your laptop in your bedroom. The evidence isn’t here.
“I have never taken
“I have never taken performance enhancing drugs”. It’s thing that is trawled out by every doper ever. I’m not saying that this condemns team Sky, but it’s a record that has been spun over and over.
…. I’m sure every CLEAN rider would have said the same thing during their career. Perhaps you can tell me how to differentiate between the saints and the sinners.
Colin Peyresourde
So what could he conceivably have said to satisfy people? There isn’t an answer to that, so it’s a complete non-question posed by crap journos who think that qualifies as ‘asking the tough questions’. It doesn’t.
Sorry, I think you’re wrong. Froome (or the DS via the race radio) has shown tactical awareness by going hard on the important days. If he was invincible he wouldn’t have conceded 51 secs on that flat stage to ACs breakaway. Also, on that super Sunday where he was outnumbered by Movistar, Quintana admitted Movistar were riding to distance Porte, not drop Froome. Half the time CF just sat amongst blue jerseys just like he would sit amongst black jerseys. Their mistake IMHO, but it flattered Froome.
As for Decster, you’ve just cited a race (2012 Vuelta) where CF, having finished the TdF and Olympics, was dropped by a trio that DID look turbocharged. They did that attacking shit day-after-day! Sky look like they’re suffering for it at least. At that’s your justification that CF must be doped?! I think it’s you that’s on the bloody drugs sunshine.
To be fair, Sky do seem to do
To be fair, Sky do seem to do be totally and utterly committed to scientifically improving their riders. No other team has it down to such a tee.
Very specific training, lifestyle and diet programs with one goal: speed. Less weight, more power means winning on the big hills. It works.
Personally, I don’t think they’re doping, but thanks to Armstrong et al, I can forgive the cycling press for behaving the way they do. The french journos said for years and years that Lance had to be guilty and that his super-human efforts were just impossible.
Having been at it for so long and be told at the end of it all that they were correct, it’s no surprise that Froome Dog is getting it from every angle.
Poor bugger.
therealsmallboy wrote:To be
i think your bang on!!
If you look at Froomes
If you look at Froomes palmeres you can see he was winning minor tours right up until his second in the vuelta. He also could just sit on the font for a race like we see kiryienka or Stannard do day in day out, all that strength from smashing into the wind and the fact he ways 60 odd kilos means he’s going to be a phenomenal climber. People need to stop assuming that our beautiful sport is full of doping. We have the strictest doping laws of all sport. Yet we are still the ones that are branded with being a doper as soon as you get one significant win
I don’t think Sky are doping,
I don’t think Sky are doping, after a big effort they clearly need a couple of “rest days” before the next big attack, the press is then full of how the Sky team are coming apart! They then put in a big effort and the press is full of doping questions.
It seems to me that Sky have a talented group of riders, who they very carefully train and manage to get the best from them, coupled to a VERY well organised and planned support team and strategy. I think this is the key to their success.
Lance Drugstrong has a lot to answer for, I hope he is proud of his legacy! 😐
banzicyclist2 wrote:I don’t
This, this, a hundred times this. This is why I think Sky aren’t doping, because they are clearly taking it easier on some days and frankly, dropping like flies when they are on the big climbs. They are clearly dying on the hills!
It’s the other reason why I don’t think Cadel Evans dopes – because he looked like he was going to die on some of the hills!
Ultra-cynicism is clearly the
Ultra-cynicism is clearly the new blind faith amongst cyclo-trolls.
It’s rhetorically a very safe position to say that Sky are doping, because even if you’re wrong cycling (and I’d widen that out to professional sport in general) leaves a lot of room for scepticism.
If I had to put money on it, I’d say that Sky are racing clean. Of course there’s room for doubt, but the tone of the discourse from the doubters is a bit irritating, not to say patronising (essentially “They’re all doping, it’s obvious, and you’re an idiot if you think otherwise”).
I’ll always listen to reasonable arguments supported by robust data; like most pro-cycling fans I’m not hugely patriotic and I don’t support a particular team. But bald assertions are pointless. And annoying.
Surely Quintana must be
Surely Quintana must be doping too, as he was able to stick with Froome up until the last ~2km?
All the cynicism is just boring, it actually puts me off talking to and associating with other cyclists, which is such a great message to be sending to the people who might want to get involved with the sport after catching it on TV for the last few weeks – “there’s no point in ever trying to be the best rider you can be because everyone will just assume you are on drugs”. Yeah great work everyone.
JonMack wrote:Surely Quintana
JonMack, you beat me to it. It’s not the doping history that’s depressing me about this sport it’s the commenters and journos.
I can completely understand why sky don’t want to publish power data, I wouldn’t! They have spent years (before and after they became a world tour team) perfecting the science behind it. And are the only team to have done it so systematically.
Brailsford has also proven that they they are the masters of peaking at the right time, proven by subsequent Olympic campaigns.
I expect their riders to be the best prepared, and riding at their physical limit AND potential. And as Geraint Thomas said, what the winner of a Grand Tour is doing, is NOT NORMAL. You have to be superhuman to be achieving what they do.
Would have thought the press
Would have thought the press would have known who was doping. They seem to be hacking everyone’s phones and emails and making the news up as they go along.
Don’t see them camping outside Usain Bolts house and he beat two confirmed dopers
It is very difficult to
It is very difficult to believe people are clean if we go on past form. If we went back ten years and changed the names at the top of the page to Armstrong and Bruyneel it would look pretty much the same, including the arguments and counter arguments in the comments.
We had the small gains argument then too, with the aerodynamic jersey cloth, the many hours in the wind tunnel, pictures of Armstrong weighing his food, the helmet design…etc.
There was the ‘I work harder than anyone else’ ‘I spend so much time away from my family’
Maybe this time it’s true.
Sleeping on volcanoes? Magic
Sleeping on volcanoes? Magic wands?
I dont know about EPO’s but it sounds the SKY lot may have been on something a bit more psychotropic.
😀
In other news – journalists on the whole are fat, lazy, ignorant, moral free, hypocritical scumbags who cant get proper jobs. They should be treated with the contempt they deserve.
(present company excepted of course road.cc hacks!)
Forgive the press!!
I
Forgive the press!!
I wouldn’t forgive any element of the press any what so ever.
Self-serving ********
However I would go with DB. The press and the doubters should shut up until they have answer.
HaHaHa !!!! You cheating
HaHaHa !!!! You cheating foriegners have been wining for years by cheating ,waving your flags and cheering home your dopped up Cuntador ect ect ect and now you cant win fuck all your crying…give 😀 me a break .Dont you know when the British want something no one in the world is better at getting it 🙂 Sky no1.. Cuntador Valverde schleck all drug banned has beens
A super human achievement;
A super human achievement; and questions will be asked? and asked again! Sky seem to be this years TDF spoiler.
Lets see, he won by 30sec or
Lets see, he won by 30sec or so, after almost 6hrs racing with at least the top 15 coming in within 1% more of that time. Hardly a performance way outside what anyone else did, more like 15 runners finishing a 100m with 1m of each other!
Absolutely – the gaps weren’t
Absolutely – the gaps weren’t huge and he only built this up slowly over the last few km. Its the sudden acceleration part that’s making everyone so suspicious. From everything I’ve read this is something innate – you’ve either got it or you haven’t – and the best climbers generally have had it. No amount of training / practice would allow Wiggo for example do that – he’s just not made that way.
Also, with the resources Sky have and their generally anal approach to everything in the cause of winning, why would they only chose to dope 3-4 of their team rather than all of them. Have we seen massed ranks of Sky riders at the business end of the mountain stages like Movistar?
For the the record, I’m generally pretty cynical about pro riding and was pretty sure LA was dodgy for years, so I’m no naive fan boy.
Ultimately we can’t have it both ways – we want to watch transcendent rides like Froome’s yesterday, but when we get it, we don’t believe it and immediately cry ‘it must be the drugs’. The alternative where there was no suspicion at all, where no one rode away from anyone else would be pretty dull – a bunch of guys grinding their way up a mountain in a group followed by a sprint over the last 200 meters! Not my idea of exciting.
Watching that stage gave me
Watching that stage gave me goosebumps, I believe the right kind of history was being made. So sad that doubt seems to be the default reaction thanks to some of those who went before & basically pissed all over the sport…and that is not cool.
I’m in no way acting as an
I’m in no way acting as an apologist for Lance Armstrong. The guy was a cheat and let down a huge number of people (fans – myself included, sponsors, team mates, other competitors) but to blame the constant questioning of Team Sky solely on Armstrong is ridiculous.
Doping has been going on in our sport for decades. On yesterday’s TDF stage we were constantly reminded of the Tommy Simpson tragedy – 46 years ago and drugs were involved there! This was not just an Armstrong issue.
We need to move on from the whole Armstrong affair and more collective responsibility needs to be taken by the current pro teams to prove they are clean. In an ideal world, it shouldn’t be necessary but it is an unfortunate legacy of decades – not just the last decade or so – of cheating.
Everyone needs to remember
Everyone needs to remember journalists survive on stories. It pays their wages. While there are some good/honest ones, the majority, in my opinion, don’t care about anything else other than selling newspapers, getting hits on a site, freelancing their stories to whoever will buy them. It’s their job. Most probably don’t really care whether anyone is doping or not – as long as they can write as many articles speculating whether people are doping or not. And therefore gain more readership; earn more money; pay for nicer holidays; buy a new car.
Think how many more magazines and newspapers will have been sold with “Armstrong’s Secrets Revealed Inside!” articles. Journalists love it.
Keep shooting the messengers,
Keep shooting the messengers, those bone idle w**kers, who dont ride a bike 6 hours a day, what are you on?
Last year none of Sky’s domestiques had an off day. This year they have had. So what it is guys, last year they doped because Wiggins was never alone and always had the blue and black train and this year because the peloton is playing catch up on last year the Sky doms look real so not dopng this year, but Froome doesn’t look real, making dopers like Piti and Contador look like also rans.
Everyone forget how Froome finished 10mins down on these guys less than a year ago in Spain and now he is ahead of Contador by 4’25”? Taking back nearly 15mins on Contador in GT terms aint bad and on bread and water mixed with a bit of ‘science’.
Enjoy your ride with Sky, if you are lucky it may last as long as Cancer Jesus’s, nearly 15 years. Wait for the Bilharzia awareness charity and “I have done too much good for too many people” or similar.
As Brailsford says, we have
As Brailsford says, we have now arrived at a situation where riders can’t prove they ride clean. If you test clean, it’s because you’re one step ahead of the tests.
Lamentable but I refuse to pander to that level of cynicism.
news just in.
Brailsford
news just in. 😀
Brailsford claims to have offered the data to Wada :B
“Brailsford did admit that he’d talked to WADA about the idea.
“We’d encourage WADA to appoint to some experts and they could have everything we’ve got. They could have all our information, all of our data. We could then compare are training files with the blood data, to the weight and WADA would be a good body to analyse that,” he said.”
Then this 😕
Shane Stokes @SSbike 28m
WADA confirms no contact with Team Sky thus far, will assess proposal
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15010/WADA-hasnt-yet-been-approached-by-Sky-over-data-offer-will-look-at-proposal.aspx …
So Brailsford lied, not Sir David Braislford of team sky telling porkies. Cant be! :O
Been here before, if i remember correctly sometime between 1999 and 2005. X(
Enjoy. (|:
Decster wrote:Brailsford
Did he? I thought he said –
You’ll be able to show me the quote where he says he’s spoken to WADA already, of course.
you’re not really adding much
you’re not really adding much to the debate, decster. you’ve clearly made up your mind, whereas to his credit brailsford is attempting to engage with the people questioning the team to find a way forward. what do you suggest he does? after all, he’s looking for suggestions.
picking two performances and claiming that’s a trend is nonsense, obviously. Ten Dam has made up the same sort of time between the two races, so is he doping too? and if contador’s still doping, which you clearly believe he is, why isn’t he keeping pace? can we work out who’s been doping, and how much, just by comparing those two races? no, of course not. a more in-depth analysis than that would be needed, carried out by independent experts. that seems to me to be what brailsford is suggesting. what’s your take on that? can it work?
you’re not moving the debate forward. i haven’t seen you offer a single constructive suggestion. you’re as dogmatic as the fanboys. neither of you are helping much. i find both positions both untenable and patronising. there’s always room for doubt.
“Brailsford did admit that
“Brailsford did admit that he’d talked to WADA about the idea”
i’ve missed that one, where have you read that? wherever it was, i’m guessing brailsford has been misunderstood; he’s making a suggestion rather than reporting on something that’s already in progress. reading the velonation piece, WADA seem like they’re interested in discussing it, anyway. that sounds reasonably positive to me. proof of the pudding, and all that.
Hmmmm
Hmmmm ……………….pudding =P~
Reading some of the
Reading some of the unsubstantiated stuff both here and on Twitter, there is only one conclusion I can come to…
-if Froome ever decided to do a Lord McAlpine, he would never have to turn a crank in anger again, able to live quite comfortably on the proceeds of hundreds of lawyers letters!
Decster???
You’ve maybe got
Decster???
You’ve maybe got nothing better to do with your time, but if you do a quick Google search on ” EPO alternative” at least take the time to read the information;
“When mice with anemia are treated with Gas6, the red blood cells once again rise to their normal levels in the blood. In contrast to EPO, the use of Gas6 does not result in an excessive production of red blood cells…” I guess, and I’m no expert like you, that the blood passport would detect this rise back to normal levels, much like a blood transfusion.
Guys like you are exactly the reason why Sky shouldn’t publish their data.
On yer bike, son!
Damn! I’ve just given him some of the attention he so craves!! :&
Decster, you’re talking such
Decster, you’re talking such utter shit that I’m actually wondering if you’re deliberately trolling or if you really are that stupid…
Selective quotes, twisting words/phrases.
Can quite understand why DB doesn’t want to release all the power and training data to internet snipers like you.
The more I read this, the
The more I read this, the more I think it’s a troll for sure.
You score 2 / 10 *
* marked down for lack of originality!
Decster – let me point
Decster – let me point something out to your tiny thick mind, In 2012 Froome rode on the front of the tour to help Wiggins win and in doing so probably gave up his own chance of winning.
3 weeks after that he heads up the Vuelta team and you can only come up with he lost time to Bertie et al. Of course he bloody did, they had not raced the tour and were fresh whereas he had a few thousand Km’s in his legs.
At times your stupidity knows no bounds. However due to your limited intelligence this will not sink in 😀
Even Alberto Contador
Even Alberto Contador believes Froome is clean – and there’s a rider who’d know!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/15/sky-dave-brailsford-doping
Little bit more on the science behind those attacks on Ventoux:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/15/team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france
And a rather pertinent piece about winning races post-Armstrong…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/10181430/Tour-de-France-2013-race-leader-Chris-Froome-cannot-escape-shadow-of-disgraced-Lance-Armstrong.html
Can there be a rule that if
Can there be a rule that if you are going to use road.cc to make accusations against someone you should back it up with some evidence?
There is no evidence that any cyclist has ever used Gas6 and I’m not sure where that Brailsford quote came from, but he certainly didn’t say it in the press conference. I suspect Decster is a blind follower of the Doperati.
I like the road.cc forum because it’s possible to have a debate with sensible, knowledgeable people. It’s ok to be sceptical (all cycling fans should be), but if you’re only interested in casting wild accusations there are plenty of other places to do it.
Decster – how sad do you have
Decster – how sad do you have to be to make up quotes to try and prove DB said something he didn’t. You really need to take a look at yourself if that’s what you feel the need to resort to.
On DB’s WADA suggestion, it seems like a good idea and one that I hope is explored. Somewhat begs the question of why it’s left to him to do this, rather than the UCI driving it though…
I don’t understand why
I don’t understand why Armstrong’s ‘cynical manipulation’ is worse than other doping. It’s all bad. Doping is doping. There is no grey area in modern day sport – you know the rules, what over the counter medicines can and can’t be taken. If you have drugs in your system, you’re a cheat.
And I can’t remember anyone actually admitting to doping before they were caught!
Brialsford says he doesnt
Brialsford says he doesnt want to release his riders data and that makes it seem as if he wants to both somehow be able to persuade the hacks and the cycling fans that his riders are clean and also preserve some of the training secrets that he feels give his squad and edge. Is it unrealistic to expect to be able to acheive both be holding back rider data? Other riders on the tour are releasing their data though. Ten Dam is on Strava http://app.strava.com/pros/186522, so I could be wrong (please tell me if I am), but surely if one uses his data one can use the ratio of the time he took to get up a climb and the time it took Froome to work out Froomes w/kg.
I think that at the bottom of last Saturdays climb to Ax 3 Domaine and at the bottom of Ventoux Ten Dam and Frome started together in the remnants of the peleton. The tour website has Froome as weighing 72 kg and Ten Dam as 67Kg. For last Saturdays climb http://app.strava.com/activities/65157191#1251253455 Ten Dam’s power output from his Garmin showed 404w which equates to 6.03 w/Kg (404/67). If Froome has taken the same time his w/kg would have been 5.61 w/kg (404/72). According to the tour website Ten Dam finished 1m 16s behind Froome and his strava data shows he took 24m and 9s to complete the climb. Cant one just use that ratio to calculate Froome w/kg? i.e. (24 + 9/60)/(22 + 53/60) = 1.05 giving Froomes w/kg for the climb as 5.61 x 1.05 = 5.92 w/kg
If one applies the same logic to Ventoux http://app.strava.com/activities/67057155#1287916934 Ten Dams w/kg for the climb was 388/67=5.79 w/kg. He completed the climb in 58m 17sec which was 1m 53 slower than Froome. So Froomes w/kg for Ventoux was (388/72)*(58 + 17/60)/( 56 + 24/60) = 5.58 w/kg
Both Ten Dam and Froome are therefore outputting far fewer w/kg than dopers like Armstrong did in their hay day. Or am I missing something?
MattNicholson wrote:am I
you’re missing the vitally important distinction between real power measurement and strava-calculated power, for a start. ten dam’s power is estimated by strava. there’s no lightning bolt next to it, indicating it’s an estimate.
https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/21787747-What-does-the-lightning-symbol-mean-
Power and time calculations
Power and time calculations alone on climbs still don’t add up.
Everyone is saying that Ventoux was really fast, faster than when Lance did it blah blah but you’ve got to look at all the factors – the break didn’t have any EuropCar riders in it so they started chasing. The break, realising that if EuropCar caught them, the KOM leader Pierre Rolland would probably win, put all their effort into avoiding the catch.
There was a screaming tailwind. Sky and TST sat there behind EuropCar ready to unleash hell when EuropCar died (which they did) and then the pace went up another notch when Sky and TST got to the front and started jostling for position.
So to an outsider, it just appears that the pace was high therefore they must have been doping. Not true at all, got to look at all the factors involved.
Trying to second guess power from Strava estimates is probably worse than just sitting there and accepting what you saw – estimated data like that is likely to be WAY out, especially as it’s derived to cope with normal riders, not TdF pros!
Posted this in another story
Posted this in another story by mistake but basically:
These guys are trying to bring some analysis to the argument which is similar to other posts where they try to analyse and compare against previous results:
http://www.sportsscientists.com/
particularly:
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2013/07/mont-ventoux-preview-looking-for…
Well after reading all the
Well after reading all the attacks on the messenger, it seems the good people of the UK are not ready to let their Armstrong moment in the sun skip by without trying to make hay from it.
Not going to respond to each indivdual attack.
As for brailsford’s quote.
here
“However Brailsford then mentioned WADA as perhaps a portal for the team to execute the analysis of data. There are currently no concrete plans to do anything of the sort, however Brailsford did admit that he’d talked to WADA about the idea.”
Read carefully the line where Brailsford says, DID ADMIT THAT HE’D TALKED TO WADA, which WADA have denied any contact from Team Sky.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-how-can-we-convince-you-we-arent-doping
Please note that cycling was growing in the USA before Armstrong won a Tour and has continued despite him. Same all over the world. Cycling a bicyle and bicycle sales has little to do with the professional side of the sport. If it did the sport would be in an extremely healthy financial position. It isn’t because the teams refuse to stop doping.
A dopo Sky fans.
PS Colin P made some great points and as a former Pro worth reading.
Decster wrote:
As for
Ok, so there IS no quote. Would have been easier if you’d just apologised.
The article said it, no quote
The article said it, no quote from DB there.
From someone that put their full address on their profile where it asks for location, I’d say reading isn’t your strong point lol.
I’ll leave it there, nothing more from me.
Perhaps we should stick a ‘do not feed the trolls’ sign up!
Contador said there’s nothing
Contador said there’s nothing suspicious about Froome’s performance. And we all know his word is bond.
Sidenote: Right on schedule, after a grand tour rest day, Contador found a way to dance on those pedals like a brand new man. Where have we seen that phenomenon before?
Personally, I reckon you just
Personally, I reckon you just have to look at Froome’s pasty, lolling head to see that he’s either just suffering big time, or having a massive whitey! So, he’s either not doping or taking performance debilitating drugs!
On the Armstrong legacy, I’m happy to admit that I was naively or otherwise drawn into the myth of perseverance will triumph over adversity. But, then at the time, I hadn’t really delved into cycling’s history or read so deeply. So, it really rocked my confidence in pro-cycling. I am cynical, but am also prepared to see that there are teams out there who are really trying to race clean.
It’s far too easy to be negative – it’s the old “I’m happy to be a pessimist” argument. I’m optimisitic and am going to take solace from the lack of performance of those previously banned.
I had a moment where I thought having a monument to someone who died through doping (Tom Simpson) was a bit much. But, then remembered that it was the “done thing” to have a spot of coke and brandy to cope with the climbs on heavy, inefficient old horses!
Personally, I find a good lamb roast and 4 pints plenty to fuel a devastating ride….
[PS I may have drunk little too much wine!]
I am almost 99% certain that
I am almost 99% certain that “Decster” is this same fool who who repeats the same bullshit he makes up in his bedroom.
http://durianrider.com/about/
http://www.youtube.com/user/durianriders?feature=watch
He is a mental case who craves attention. Full of lies and contradiction.