[Shades]

I’m back in the office; hybrid working (60:40 home/office).  I usually cycle (17 miles each way) or do a drive/cycle combo (close enough to the office to avoid the traffic and cycle in normal clothes without getting sweaty) if the weather is a bit inclement (or winter).  Bike park at work (many 1000s work at my site) is pretty empty (OK, people are working flexibly) but the traffic queues are almost back to pre-pandemic levels in places.  Junior staff in the office, on the lower salaries, wailing about the petrol price increases, which must be around 20%, yet they keep on paying.  Some people haven’t got a choice, granted, but running the sums, cost of driving must be comparable to the bus or train; or dig a bike out and it cost sweet FA!

I wish Chris Boardman the best luck in the world, but when people are doggedly happy to empty their bank accounts to keep driving you have to wonder.

Topic

[David9694]

An absence of Covid, if the

An absence of Covid, if the alternative is to be public transport. Why the heck are we now drifting back into unnecessary office life??  The first 18 months, Covid seemed to happen to strangers – now it’s several people I know affected.  People have internalised the idea of the loss to illness of a random week in your life, and I assume, the possibility of long Covid.

Not wishing to re-write the question, but is it really one that says “how high do pump prices have to go before people decide/are forced to make changes?”  The 5p Fuel Tax concession is a gimmick and small beer but it’s still the wrong direction to go. 

Cars are Kyotonite to buses – less passengers, less frequency, less reliable, and of course slower (for both drivers and bus passengers.) Covid is disrupting public transport again currently, which doesn’t help get people out of their cars.  If you keep being left standing, watching everyone else go by, you’ll strive to get motorised.  We don’t prioritise and invest in the experience of public transport users in anything like the way we often do with drivers.  

“Traffic’s terrible” becomes a shared agony; drivers leave home earlier and earlier to beat it. Alternatives have to beat that consistently and comprehensively to effect change. It’s strange how drivers are happy to deal in £0000s for purchase, £000s for fuel and repair, whereas we deal in £000s for purchase and £00s for spares and repairs. Although we never hear the end of the £200 annual Road Tax of course.
We know the arguments around cycling – infrastructure and attitudes. 

Do I buy the “sunk costs” car argument, as in a narrow/ literal interpretation? Does it make that much difference to me in terms of replacement cost (I buy second-hand outright) if I keep my lightly used car (I”m getting towards being a Sunday driver these days!) 3, 4, or 5 years before changing it?  I don’t feel the cost of a past purchase, once I’ve made it. I soon forget that 9-10 months of what I normally save up gets swallowed whole on a purchase that will lose 80-90% of its value (value: as in what I’ve paid out).  Aren’t most of my motoring costs, including the time at which I’ll have the urge to trade in, mainly influenced by how many miles I do?

 

[wycombewheeler]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

The strange thing is that if you get rid of your car then public transport is good value in comparison to the total cost of car ownership. If you own a car then it’s appalling value for a single journey. When I got rid of my car I worked out it was costing me roughly £1750 in non fuel costs every year. If you can commute by bike/foot that’s a hell of a lot of bus/train/coach journeys to make before you’re worse off without the car.

or 50 days at £35 a day to hire a car when needed, with then no need to worry about the hassle of servicing, MOT, cleaning, keeping a eye on the tyres etc.

[wycombewheeler]

Owd Big ‘Ead wrote:

The answer is in the question.

Why would you leave your car at home when it is still costing money whether it is used or not.

quite, people moan about the price of fuel, but buying or leasing a car will be in the region of £300 a month.

Even for people that own a car, with no payments, and ignoring depreciation, we are looking at £600-£800 a year before taking the car anywhere (MOT/Insurance/servicing)

While the incremental cost of using it is £0.15p per mile. But if we look at the number of occasions where a car is essential (perhaps once or twice a month for me) then hiring  a car on those occasions would be cheaper than owning a car. I’m not yet at the point of selling my existing car, but I like to think I will not be replacing it with a new one.

[chrisonabike]

I heard their bike storage

I heard their bike storage was a bit cramped:

[brooksby]

Ha! You learn something knew

Ha! You learn something new every day.

[hawkinspeter]

brooksby wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Taxes are how we purchase civilisation

That needs to go on a poster or a banner 🙂

It’s an old saying that is often attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/04/13/taxes-civilize/

[brooksby]

hawkinspeter wrote:

mdavidford wrote:

I don’t want to be ‘penalised’ with taxes generally, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be.

Taxes are how we purchase civilisation

That needs to go on a poster or a banner 🙂

[Rendel Harris]

JustTryingToGetFromAtoB wrote

JustTryingToGetFromAtoB wrote:

I’ve never slated anyone for having an e-bike but I definitely had an emotional response internally when one was suggested to me for the london commute. I was surprised by the strength of my reaction. There is no logic to it, I guess that might be where others are coming from. I’m sure I’ll change my mind, I’m something of a late adopter.

You’re probably right. It’s weird though that nobody (as far as I’ve seen) has a go at people for taking the train or bus to work but some strenuously object to people using ebikes, which are virtually non-polluting (obviously there’s the electricity production to be considered but we do use a green tariff) and can provide 70% or more of the exercise. I spend most of the 25kms each way we commute riding completely under my own power over the 25km/h cutoff, the motor basically gives me a shove uphill and a fast pull away from the lights (which contributes hugely to safety on a London commute), which saves muscle strain and leaves me in good shape for “proper” riding at the weekends.

Each to their own of course, though I’ve never known anyone have a go on one without returning with a big smile on their face! 

[andystow]

My commute is nine miles each

My commute is nine miles each way right now. I’m considering moving, possibly over fifteen miles from work. At that distance, I’d either drive a couple of days a week and cycle every other day, or get an e-bike. I’m not going to spend over two hours a day cycling to and from work (although in the winters it sometimes already takes me that long.)

[JustTryingToGetFromAtoB]

Rendel Harris wrote:

Rendel Harris wrote:

Adam Sutton wrote:

I think as well as cheaper public transport we need to embrace e-bikes. There seems a lot of animosity from some cyclists (dear god not a dig at people here!) But they’re key to getting less able people onto bikes. Maybe even offer a pannier rack at point of sale and encourage their use for short shopping trips.

Ebikes are not only for the less able – Herself and I have our carbon road bikes, our MTBs, and an ebike each. They (the ebikes) replaced the car two years ago to enable her (and me as escort/mobile mechanic) to do a longish commute to a very demanding on-her-feet-all-day teaching job without being utterly exhausted and to help us deliver shopping etc to elderly parents on weekends without needing a car. Some on here insist they’re just for lazy people – and at the same time talk about how they use their cars for shopping, it confounds me. 

I’ve never slated anyone for having an e-bike but I definitely had an emotional response internally when one was suggested to me for the london commute. I was surprised by the strength of my reaction. There is no logic to it, I guess that might be where others are coming from. I’m sure I’ll change my mind, I’m something of a late adopter.

[Rendel Harris]

Adam Sutton wrote:

Adam Sutton wrote:

I think as well as cheaper public transport we need to embrace e-bikes. There seems a lot of animosity from some cyclists (dear god not a dig at people here!) But they’re key to getting less able people onto bikes. Maybe even offer a pannier rack at point of sale and encourage their use for short shopping trips.

Ebikes are not only for the less able – Herself and I have our carbon road bikes, our MTBs, and an ebike each. They (the ebikes) replaced the car two years ago to enable her (and me as escort/mobile mechanic) to do a longish commute to a very demanding on-her-feet-all-day teaching job without being utterly exhausted and to help us deliver shopping etc to elderly parents on weekends without needing a car. Some on here insist they’re just for lazy people – and at the same time talk about how they use their cars for shopping, it confounds me. 

[OldRidgeback]

There’s nothing wrong with e

There’s nothing wrong with e-bikes at all. 

[OldRidgeback]

I’ve not read this cost

I’ve not read this cost comparison on car use but it’s worth pointing out that most tend to use the cost of a new car as a base. Now I don’t know about you, but I’ve never bought a new vehicle in 40 years of motoring (six cars and 11 motorbikes if you most know). Until the pandemic, a car would lose about half of its value in the first 2-3 years on average. Secondhand cars have gained in value a bit since the pandemic.

My current car is now 16 years old and I’ve owned it for 11 years. It didn’t cost an arm and a leg to buy, it’s been pretty reliable in that time and no, it doesn’t guzzle fuel.

One of my neighbours runs a Morris Minor, which costs buttons to run as it’s on classic insurance and there’s no need to pay ULEZ fees, MOT charges or VED. Someone with smarts could easily search out a good classic cars (old Mercs and Volvos can run for ever and Landys can be rebuilt over and over again), repower it with a more modern engine and run it on LPG. Any vehicle 40 years old or more can be classed as a ‘historic vehicle’ and my classic motorbike now falls into this category – no VED and the insurance is £39/year fully comp.

[OldRidgeback]

Cycling doesn’t always take

Cycling doesn’t always take longer. When I first moved to London I had a 10 mile commute to work and used to cycle from Brixton to Woolwich. I’d pass a colleague at New Cross in his car, give him a wave and be in the office 15-30 minutes before him.

[OldRidgeback]

My nephew works at Brompton.

My nephew works at Brompton. It’s pretty bike friendly.

[Author]

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