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forum
safety clothing
why do the majority of road cyclists wear black or other dark-coloured clothing?
Motorists are more likely to hit them, or pedestrians step in front of them!
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
Latest Forum Topics
Latest Comments
- andystow 1 sec ago
The new RH tubes claim to solve that issue, but price and availability is a problem. I tried to get some to try out, but they went out of stock on...
- henryb 12 min 16 sec ago
Disappointed this article doesn't use the words 'boondoggle', 'junket' or 'jamboree'
- brooksby 24 min 21 sec ago
Cough - cough - Clevedon seafront! - cough cough
- eburtthebike 42 min 12 sec ago
Thanks for the tip. I didn't realise the Forest of Dean was inside the M25.
- Adam Sutton 46 min 47 sec ago
Chances are you live in London or somehwere where you have decent public transport, to make such a dumb comment
- Secret_squirrel 3 hours 54 min ago
Those calipers arent the prettiest. Makes them look like Post-mount.
- Dnnnnnn 4 hours 37 min ago
I'm all for a much more socialist approach to the sorts of things you mention, where there are clear market failures and a need for decent...
- David9694 4 hours 38 min ago
Zorbing balls - if it saves just one life
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61 comments
Black - the least visible colour?
of course there is the issue the rain jackets seem to come in feault black from most manufacturers.
But also if you try wearing a brightly coloured top in wet weather it will soon be ruiined by road spray containing all sorts of dirt left by motor vehicles.
Even driving on unlit roads, I never have problems seeing either cyclists or peds in dark clothing. Then again I concentrate on driving when in the car instead of driving like a tit.
Nice!
The father of a mate of mine, a blunt Yorkshireman had an innovative solution to aggressive driving...'Tek t' seatbelts aart,' he used to say. 'and put a big spike in't middle o' t' steering wheel.'
Which translated means: Take their seatbelts out and replace them with a big spike in the middle of the steering wheel'. I've thought a lot about Jim's recommendation since.
It's been suggested before.
When there were no seaetbelts and the steering wheel could decapetate the driver, drivers didn't drive that more carefully, they just killed themselves and other drivers in huge numbers.
Admittedly the power was a lot less then, but brakes, tyres and steering are a lot better these days.
Far more drink driving back then too.
The big spike might make them drive with care for a few weeks, but then...
POWER!
Andy - as a matter of interest, have you posted on any motoring website asking drivers to give cyclists more space when overtaking; to avoid left hooks; to give way to cyclists when cyclists have right of way? Have you posted anywhere campaigning for better cycling infrastructure?
You have made two assertions there. Are either of them supported by research, and can you cite please?
Looking at your responses to some of the comments below, I could be forgiven for thinking that you have no intention to do anything other than blame the people you hit when driving your car.
My advice to you is don't hit people.
Put your phone down
Drive slower
Pay attention
Start cycling - your road awareness will climb steeply.
Most of all, accept that what your car does is your responsibility and yours alone, then start driving as such.
I can't help thinking you'll dismiss the above though and you are merely trolling. If that's the case it's a shame, as you will continue to be a liability on the road and a risk to other road users, irrespective of their mode of transport.
Hope you've had fun, and good evening to you.
Spot on
A Grade one victim blamer
Slow down a bit Andy, don't be so impatient, use those big glass windows that you are surrounded by, maybe concentrate on what you are doing.
You are too polite
I have had many drivers pull out in front of me while I was wearing Hi Viz. If the driver does not look you will not be seen
In 60-70% of collisions with adult cyclists the motorist is found to be at fault.(Cycling UK)
The most common explanation is "I did not see the Cyclist" (Cycling UK)
Most accidents happen on urban roads (RoSPA) Assume 30mph speed limits.
To pass the driving test you need to read a number plate (79mm characters) at 20 metres. Stopping distance at 30 mph is 23metres. If you can read a number plate how is it possible not to see a six foot cyclist at 23 metres? Regardless of what he is wearing.
We are where we are, we cannot do a risk assesment and start again from the beginning. To expand Hawkinspeter's analogy we are riding through a building site where it's raining lump hammers from the scaffolding.
So cyclists are almost forced to wear PPE even though they know it will make little difference. Once 50% plus wear PPE the minority can then be branded as reckless, by drivers and defence lawyers.
Upsetting the motoring lobby is a vote loser. No politician will change the status quo.
We are where we are - go back three paragraphs.
This low bridge should have made itself more visible
These fluorescent yellow illuminated retroreflective bollards should have made themselves more visible.
This fluorescent yellow illuminated retroreflective bollard should have made itself more visible.
This georgian house should have made itself more visible
There are over 500 "near misses" recorded here. In just about all of them the visibility of the cyclist was not in question. And yet the motorist failed to give the cyclist a safe distance. You can't fix that by making the cyclist any the more visible. Where the driver did not see the cyclist it is generally because the driver could not see anything else either (eg 581). You can't make things visible to someone who is unsighted by the sun or roadspray - and proceeds a pace nevertheless, literally in blind hope that nothing is there.
I'm sure you are right, Hairy. If we had only perfect motorists, cyclists would be safe, but then we would not need safety belts, airbags, crumple zones, crash helmets etc either.
I'm sure self-drive cars and/or hi-vis jackets on cyclists are the answer!
Who is Hairy?
If you want to respond to a poster, then use quote or reply.
"If we had only perfect motorists, cyclists would be safe, but then we would not need safety belts, airbags, crumple zones, crash helmets etc either."
You are ignoring the risk control model and hierarchy.
I suspect that without all of those things, motorists may behave a little differently as there will be a greater inherent risk to them - replace the airbag with something a little spikier perhaps?
sorry Hairy, but I did not understand your last post!
Perhaps they are getting out of sync.
Hi Hawkinspeter,
I have had one cyclist friend killed and another badly injured in the past 18 months, so this subject is close to me.
I am only asking cyclists (the ones saving money or doing what the govt is asking for) to try to be more visible. Bike lights are normally a joke compared to vehicle lights so don't feel protected by them.
I am not excusing motorists, only asking cyclists to help reduce the accident statistics, whoever is at fault.
"Bike lights are normally a joke compared to vehicle lights so don't feel protected by them."
You don't know a lot about bike lights do you.
Are you really claiming your 2 friends would have been better off with PPE as that is really victim blaming.
I note you haven't actually asked people here what type of equipment and clothing they use but are quite happy to use the terms 'this fraternity' and 'macho' apparently directed at people here.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Most enthusiastic cyclists do wear some elements of hi-viz/reflectives and personally, I go for bright (flourescent) green when I can but shorts/tights are usually black though that does provide a two-colour scheme that should provide good contrast against most backgrounds.
Also, as a member of Cycling UK, I've got insurance though a lot of household insurance policies will also provide cycling insurance (partly because it's very cheap to provide due to very few claims against cyclists).
To indicate how bright colours are simply not effective, have a look at this forum thread: https://road.cc/content/forum/car-crashes-building-please-post-your-local-news-stories-276441
The problem we have with people asking cyclists to wear hi-viz/helmets, follow rules, cycle in a certain way etc. is that it steals attention from proven, effective measures to improve road safety. I'd suggest that you'd be doing more good if you were to campaign for reduced inner-city speed limits or even LTNs (though that's a whole political mess at the moment). There's also the significant problem of HGVs that have really poor visibility and their drivers have been killing quite a number of cyclists in London especially.
By the way, I can recommend a watch of the short film about how the Netherlands made a determined effort to improve road safety starting in the 70s: https://vimeo.com/361286029
Why are you only asking cyclists? Why not asking motorists, to try to look?
OK, I realise that is a play on the use of the word "only". But the point stands. I'm sorry for your loss, but if I'd suffered the death of a friend killed by a motorist, I'd be directing my attention primarily towards motorists.
Are you suggesting that your friends didn't make themselves visible enough?
Abrasion intended.
I have on a number of occasions been told that my lights are too bright.......and could I turn them off as they are causing a hazard to motorists!
I just want, Hirsute, to reduce risks for cyclists in the most practical ways. Waving pontifical words at "motorists" will do nothing. We are in the majority right now!
If you want to dream, perhaps insurance for cyclists, and claim refused if you are not wearing fluorescent clothing and helmets might be a start.
Most cyclists have insurance.
If you want to reduce risks to cyclists in the most practical way, then you should address the driving test and the subsequent lack of retesting in an attempt to improve the woeful driving standards and the lack of observational training.
If your misapproach to risk controls was applied to driving and vehicles, there would be no black/silver/grey cars on the roads, all occupants would wear racing helmets and flame retardant suits.
Then people would question why you are addressing the problem at the PPE level ie the last point of mitigation.
Sorry Hirsute if you are feeling neglected!
Please get from the company that sells that beautiful top just what % of the total cycling population of the UK now wears it.
I did answer earlier, before many of the responses were even made! I want to save cyclist's lives and injuries.
Your response to the many points and posts was
"sanity at last - well said Shades!"
Hence I said
"Not prepared to respond to the substantive points made in a clear manner then."
Sharp but NO, Brooksby.
I am a motorist who gets fed up seeing, just about, cyclists in black, and having near misses turning in front of them, especially with e-bikes doing 20+mph.
I have been in touch with the MOT about the rules, but their consultations have mainly attracted input from this fraternity, who put "Macho" before safety, to change the law.
I speak to the cycle clothing sellers when I can so as to try to get them to change the "fashion" to more couchy bright colours - the ladies do better.
Yes, I do not want to cause accidents and look out for all road users, but I want cyclists to help themselves (and not just say it is all the motorists responsibility like the law and guidance says at present).
Sitting on a cloud playing my harp saying "it was not my fault" is sad!
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