[mattw]

I was quite started to see this being promoted as an EAPC, able to ride on shared pavements, but it is tippier than a double-decker bus.

e-Pack – A 5m long articulated cargo bike van that can weight half a tonne. I’d suggest that this is the kind of thing that will arrive if we have the 500W motor change brought in. It is:

1.96m tall.
0.9m wide.
5m long.
has dual 250W motors (which I make 500W).
Carries up to 350kg, so weighs 500kg+ with a 100kg rider.
And they say it is perfectly suitable for cycle infra.

I’d suggest the way to regulate this is for anything more than 3m long to be unable to use cycle tracks and be on the road, and for 4-wheelers to require a tilt test like a double decker bus. The cycle design vehicle is 2.8m long (but I make 2.8m slightly short for a tandem with a tagalong).

The proportions of a double decker bus are 4.4m high by 2.5m wide ie 1.76:1 h:w. The proportions of this are 1.96:0.9 ie 2.17:1 h:w. ie tippier.

https://www.cityshuttle.co.uk/fleet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgc-JOv6aWEz
 

Topic

[chrisonabike]

TBF they are in NL. (Some

TBF such things are found in cycle facilities in NL also. (They have some particular historic issues – petrol scooters – although they’re addressing that some places).  And they even have special police kit for checking things there!

I agree that this doesn’t make this a good state of affairs, nor that we should ignore it and “just be grateful”.  But in the UK (and more so in the US, I’d imagine) maybe there are currently bigger issues?  Like actually getting half-decent cycle infra in the first place?  And addressing the cars and vans that are driving and parking there.  And buses, if a “cycle lane” (UK thinks bus lanes count and obviously buses need to get to the kerb, which means crossing the “bike lane” right?).  Oh, and temporary (ish…) road signage, materials for road works / utilities upgrades / people’s house extensions, large waste bins / skips etc. being stored there?

(They’ve managed to sort out the road works aspect in NL, at least…)

[brooksby]

Eben Weiss (bikesnobnyc) did

Eben Weiss (bikesnobnyc) did an article yesterday, grumbling about how the ‘bike lanes’ in NYC are full of stuff that isn’t actually bikes (e-scooters, electric motorbikes, petrol scooters, etc etc etc).

Looks like we’re going the same way… 

[Daclu Trelub]

Nope. Fuck off with that. It

Nope. Fuck off with that. It can sit in the traffic queue with all the other space monsters.

[OnYerBike]

Overall I agree – I think we

Overall I agree – I think we want the direction of travel to encourage things like this instead of conventional vans, but I don’t think expanding the EAPC regulations is the way to do it.

That said, I suspect I would be very happy if all cycling infrastructure was built assuming something like this would be using it, and I would rather share good quality segregated infrastructure with these, than share the roads with full on HGVs. 

[Sriracha]

Now you know who is
Now you know who is sponsoring the government’s push for 500W throttle controlled e-motor vehicles on cycling infrastructure. Get out of my way.

[Sriracha]

That thing is to bicycles
That thing is to bicycles what Jonas Vingegaard’s headgear is to bike helmets.

[chrisonabike]

Totally – and though I have
Totally – and though I have far better visibility on my recumbent I still have mirrors as it just makes it much easier and quicker to observe.

[Oldfatgit]

Yes … the mirrors thing was
Yes … the mirrors thing was me.

Don’t forget though, you don’t just need to look behind when reversing… every time to change direction or pull off from a kerb/junction you should look behind. [With trucks, you should check behind at every change of speed too]

[mattw]

I’m not sure about those on

I’m not sure about those on some of our crossfalls and turning radii. This is the shared cycle path next to a local 25k a day 50mph road.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.126025,-1.239053,3a,69.1y,1.63h,85.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3TJnV8kSSydsEZye1jvWMg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-GB&entry=ttu

[BBB]

From the videos they look

From the videos they look like slow, wobbly and bulky vehicles that will have issues negotiating even a small curb (one of the videos has skipped the moment when their “taxi” have moved grom the road to the pavament). They belong to roads, not cycle infra, but cargo companies will be very persuasive with their cash. 

[Kapelmuur]

It reminds me of a

It reminds me of a traditional electric milk float.

[chrisonabike]

Sounds sensible, was touring
Sounds sensible, was touring the Edinburgh cycle paths yesterday and reminding myself of the general lack of width (Leith Walk seems to be about a metre in places and even that gets squeezed).

If I ruled the world I’d say “first build your infra! Only *after* that – wait and see! Let NL be the pioneer – they’ll soon find the bugs / snags.”

Another reminder that cycling provision is not just a “common” (and unstable / “fragile” – arguably still the case even in NL). It may be one with “potential” – if people predict it will increase in the UK we should *expect* commercial interests to look to exploit or “capture” it.

[mattw]

I think that rather than

I think that rather than expanding the EAPC category, we should consider more serious type-approval and regulation for these larger vehicles.

It’s a reprise of safety risks caused by using standard bike tyres and brakes on more powerful e-motorcycles.

Expanding the EAPC category will do two things:

1 – Allow these everwhere eg the 4ft wide shared pavements (former footways) in my town.

2 – Give ammunition to bicycle-bansturbaters because these will be “pedal cycles”.

[chrisonabike]

I want to like these things
I want to like these things but with the proposed UK law changes and increase in e-everything I wonder.

Still – even if the UK goes hog-wild on this stuff it’s probably going to be better than out current motor-vehicle infested environment. Or will we long for the days when all drivers were licenced, insured and sober, and all motor vehicles had MOT, tax and number plates – and those not adhering to that had “the book thrown at them” (*hollow laughter*)?

[chrisonabike]

Hmm… as others say –
Hmm… as others say – perhaps better than vans in some ways, but then vans don’t use the cycle lanes and paths mostly only *park* in the cycle lanes and aren’t *always* driving in the cycle tracks.

That’s more than half yer average UK 2-way cycle path – overtaking might be tricky if it’s not speedy.

As OldFatGit (was it?) pointed out as shown you can’t see behind it – unless they’ve added cameras? Mind – does it reverse?

Strong wind / cornering? (Very often strong winds around my flats since tall, and you’ll find gradients and corners everywhere).

OTOH perhaps the poor quality, narrow width, barriers impassable by anything other than a standard bike and disconnected nature of UK cycle infra will spare us too many of these things for now…

[Author]

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