[David9694]

Anyone noticed??

(The Times 4/12/21)

Topic

[Rich_cb]

It’s running pretty well in
It’s running pretty well in Arizona and trials underway in San Francisco.

If it can handle the latter it should be good just about anywhere.

I think it’ll run like the current Waymo service, just a taxi essentially.

[kil0ran]

I’m not sure driverless will

I’m not sure driverless will every be good enough to handle the randomness that is humans, but we are now down to a single pedal, speed limiters, and a steering wheel. A lot of modern EVs use throttle position to kick the car into brake regen mode which works even better than traditional engine braking. There’s still a physical pedal for emergencies but once you get used to the brake mode it’s rare that you’ll use the physical pedal. 

On the cost side of things I’m not sure the cycle hire model can apply to cars, unless the operators choose not to care about damage, punctures, etc. 

[kil0ran]

Can’t believe I didn’t think

Can’t believe I didn’t think of it! Back when I was commuting into Southampton every day I did a mixed-mode commute – drive part of the way (22 miles so a bit long for an every day commute, particularly in winter) and cycle the rest. The really mad thing is that what I normally do is drop him at school, go for an MTB ride in the local woods (around 10 miles), pop the bike back on the car, drive home, and then drive back to pick him up in the afternoon. 

Whilst I started WFH long before COVID I’ve really missed the commute I used to do, it really used to set me up for the day. Now I can do it again, except I’m commuting to my home office with better showers, coffee, and company. If I do it every day that’s 4000 miles of petrol/diesel saved which is a huge motivation. 

(Having sold all my road bikes earlier this year this is also an N+1 opportunity, thinking of going SS seeing as it’s so flat). For now I’ll dust off my trusty Triban 3 on its skinny 23mm tyres and Claris group, almost retro enough for Eroica!

[Rich_cb]

It’s the cost that makes
It’s the cost that makes driverless cars inevitable in my opinion.

Elsewhere on the thread people mention 18 year olds paying £5000 a year for a car+insurance. I’ve got friends that pay £5000 a year just in lease costs (madness I tell thee).

The amount of money to be made just by disrupting those models is enormous, add in bus/taxi revenue and freight transport etc and the potential revenue likely reaches the trillions.

I can’t see my children’s generation ever learning to drive and once that cultural link is severed it’s never coming back for all the reasons (and more) that you mentioned.

[Chris Hayes]

On a mile and a half journey

On a mile and a half journey with my son to football training this morning we encountered several buses: all of them empty save for the driver.  Same on the way back.  It’s fairly common to see empty buses in London (Canary Wharf, in my case) and I wonder: what is the point?  Surely they could collect and use passenger data to ensure that they ran more efficiently.  Nope: here we just have passengerless buses. 

[David9694]

If not a driverless bus, then

If not a driverless bus, then that’s quite close to a driverless taxi you’re describing.

It’s the social and perceived safety factors as much as anything else – “my car”, my exclusive possession and space: that I won’t be sharing with strangers, thank-you very much. I don’t know whether people will be willing to let those factors go, having been sold them.  

They’re pretty tenacious: a big city car owner has got one or more of this thing that they often can’t really afford to own or to run, which gives them inconsistent journey times, parking it is always a detriment to the world, many can’t safely charge it or it pollutes if it’s ICE. It represses and endangers all other forms of transport wherever it goes. All justified by the 5-yearly fridge delivery, or old war wound that plays-up whenever anyone says “active travel”. 

[Simon E]

kil0ran wrote:

When I was proper poor I still ran a car. Bangernomics and being handy with the spanners helps.

Those days are gone, sadly. Modern cars are full of electronics. Evem my bottom-of-the-range car needs the key turned in the ignition to wind the window down; and if it stops working there’s I wouldn’t try stripping down the door panel to fix it, which I happily did with my mk 2 Polo.

kil0ran wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion about leaving the car at school for the day, that’s complete genius!

That’s great!

I thought twice about saying it as so often people then come up with excuses because in reality they just want to justify using a car.

I started doing something similar when my son went to college. The bus pickup point was 6 miles across town and not too far from my work. Although it was only 3 miles on busy A-roads, I worked out a route along some quieter lanes where I could manage a longer, more relaxed and scenic ride without mixing with main road traffic.

[kil0ran]

Our roof faces due south, but

Our roof faces due south, but last time we checked the numbers (2011) it still wouldn’t make economic sense due to a lot of space being consumed by the bay window and a massive chimney breast. Hoping we can use the west-facing part of the old (brick built, tiled roof) garage to top things up. Our side wall is unencumbered by shade and faces west, but I doubt planning would allow us to mount vertical panels there. 

Over 20 years we should be quids in but then there’s the question of replacement when we’re in our dotage/not earning and improvement in technology over that time. I recall friends having one of the first solar installs in the early ’80s (they also had micro-wind too), technology hasn’t improved a great deal since then. And that was a south-facing roof on the coast with clear sight of the horizon and access to a decent westerly.

[Rich_cb]

In a way driverless cars can
In a way driverless cars can be more inclusive than cycling as they will be accessible to people who may not physically be able to cycle.

I don’t think most people will care if their car stops to pick someone up. Most car drivers stop multiple times on a drive anyway. If the car is divided into pods there won’t be any privacy or hygiene issues so I really can’t see it being an issue.

If driverless cars can increase car occupancy then congestion will disappear, any route can then keep to main roads as much as possible only going to residential roads for pick ups and drop offs.

The lack of parked cars will also ease congestion.

[David9694]

I guess especially while

I guess especially while Covid is around, we all value our little bit of on-road exclusivity. Tell me about the driverless car system that is as fully inclusive as bikes collectively are.  

Imagine the horror if your driverless car / the one you were using informed you that it had been electronically hailed by someone wanting to do part of your journey at this time, and was going to stop to pick them up!

Imagine programming it for central London at rush hour (which still be a thing)  – what route choices might it make?  

It has to be transport for all. 
 

[Rich_cb]

Why did you decide to fit
Why did you decide to fit solar and a battery?

[Rich_cb]

I think that will be the main
I think that will be the main benefit of driverless cars.

Transport will become a utility and road space can go back to being used for transport rather than storage.

I’ve no idea where you live but Enterprise run a car club scheme in quite a few locations, it’s usually a fiver a month for membership but can be much cheaper.

[David9694]

Your occasional reminder that

Your occasional reminder that the car (whatever it runs on) kills off public transport. Every time you drive you, are part of this problem; each individual driver things he’s being very clever, but – well, you know the rest.  Driving is misery. 

The car deprives public transport of passengers and revenue and congests the roads – less reliable, less frequent. Unpleasant, waiting for a bus, unsafe waiting for a train at some iffy, unmanned station, 

To give an example: 18 buses a day in our village in the 1970s – evenings, Sunday afternoons ; now 6 and none on Sundays. In the many places where the buses have died out completely, every adult and child now needs a car / access to a car to go anywhere.

[David9694]

We started the solar panels
We started the solar panels install process (via Eon) in September – it’s a slow thing, no install date fixed yet. We’re having over 10 panels so the elec distributor has to approve. Our supplier did us a smart meter (which is an essential to record the nano watts we will sell back.) this week. We’re having a battery which will store about an hour’s worth of output from our west facing back roof.
I doubt it will be economic, and it also remains to be seen if any future buyer would find them a turn-on.

[Simon E]

kil0ran wrote:

kil0ran wrote:

I find it very strange that our friends with teenagers have followed the path we did – pass test at 17/18, first car at 18. Two of the lads are paying almost £2k for insurance. Others are paying £250 a month for a brand new car on contract hire. 

But they need a car. You can’t meet your mates and get served junk at McDonald’s drive-thru without a car. Everyone has a car (they’ll say).

My son is now working 20 miles away. Small firm so carshare is not possible, rural location means no public transport. Hours are 8-5 but he may have to work extended hours without notice. He passed his test 18 months ago and was driving my car for a year or so but at 20 y/o has managed to get a 63-reg Skoda Rapid insured for £850/year. I can’t see him doing that kind of work (tractor mechanic) without his own vehicle unless he leaves home and lives within walking distance of the workshop.

[Author]

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