Where does charity and generosity stop?

Never mind mate i always put my foot in it ! dont know how many times i've apologised

I'm glad you are going to stay around Tim, I used to come on the forum a long time before I started posting and getting involved.

I started out just playing the game and enjoying it. I entered a schwag (giveaway) on here and won a book about cycling, started reading it and getting more involved in posting on the forum, been here just under two years.

Come on here most days and see if I can help others out in their help posts, reply to a news story or blog here and there. Look at the new reviews.

Sometimes tweet the guys who post the news a link here and there to possible stories they might follow up on. Just get involved where I can to help be part of what makes the site great.

I hope you join up and have a try of the fantasy game, its what gets more users involved on the forums than anything else.

If only Lance Armstrong could learn a thing or two from Tim about apologising graciously.

This is a healthy chat.

Never be frightened of an argument, but keep an open mind. Like Frank Zappa said "A mind is like a parachute, if it isn't open, it doesn't work". Fair play to everyone for their comments. It actually makes me proud to be a cyclist and a human being seeing people act like adults.

....this is the opposite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyKofFih8Y

One word of advise, steer clear of the underpants/chamois argument, you just never know who might be reading.

Tim wrote "Maybe my up bringing has been different, but I have always been taught to live within your means and only have what you can afford. I know so many people who work 40 + hours a week and struggle to survive without any of the luxuries Keith has acquired."

With you all the way Tim. I can't afford such luxuries and I am toiling away on behalf of you all in the employ of the Secretary of State for Transport trying to make the roads a safer place.

I see far too many people sufferng from "benefit dependancy" who are surrounded by gadgets/toys/material whatsits that they only have because the tax-payer is bled through open wounds to pay for them.

I don't hanker after such goodies - it just gauls me to know that I am paying for somebody else's

Keep posting Tim.

Your comments have not offended me in the slightest.

When did this turn into the Daily Mail letters page?

I think we need to remember there is a difference between someone who cannot work or who is limited to what work they can do by an illness or disability & is therefore in receipt of Disability Living Allowance to someone who chooses not to work & to live off benefits.
I'm pretty those that are in the first catorgory would love to be able to go out & get a full time job, rather then be stuck at home & therefore have NO choice but to claim the meager benefits they are entitled to.

I will go into more detail shortly about Cain and his situation, but here is something I wrote up when someone asked about donating an item.

So here you go, rip into this till your wee hearts are content.

http://textsave.de/?p=154526

yer, almost fell for it, I got really worked up

I've known Cain and his mum for many years and could contribute to this debate in many ways, but choose not to.

Debate - That, I think is the important word here.

We should thank Tim for raising points (however initially offensive or badly worded you may feel they are) that should be aired - it allowed both GKAM and Dizzy to contribute and display their sincerity and humility both for themselves and on behalf of Cain. And thank you also to Dave and Tony for affirming Road.cc's position and support.

We live in a world where we constantly have to justify our selves and our actions.

Society would not be what is it without skepticism, it's one of the basic principals of human philosophy, as it freedom of choice.

Thank you, Tim - you are a good human being and your further posts have hopefully stopped some of us from making the some rash statements. We have no more right to make assumptions about you as anyone else (and IF assumptions are made, they should, in a civilized world be considered as opinions and not empirical fact)

I will say one thing regarding a point Tim rasied, though - Some great movements charity movements have been driven by single personalities (I'm not going to mention the L-word here) but the Anthony Nolan Trust is one cause close to my heart.

This could be the nucleus of a movement to inspire mobility cycling.

Everyone has there own opinion and forum's encourage people to express it. Whether you feel the OP was right or wrong, by commenting then you are doing the same that he did, expressing an opinion.

I do wonder if he was a regular poster / well known character (ie. like Keith is) if he'd have got the same response?

My opinion is that he'd not - more than likely in the same way that Keith would have a far less helpful response if he signed up and launched an appeal before anyone knew him. (well, erm, 'knew' as in the internet sense of the term I guess!)

So Tim, stay around, join in, etc. As mentioned above Keith hasn't always seen eye to eye with everyone. Same can be said of most users here I am sure.

If anything, should anyone had harboured similar feelings but not felt confident or happy about posting them, well Keith has (hopefully) explained a few points.

Maybe I have missed loads but I am not sure who Cain is btw? (or was that discussed on Twitter?)

Taking one of the OP comments on board - purely a suggestion - but maybe Keith would have a role for say a Parkinson's charity as a motivation speaker or a face of what you can achieve despite set backs, etc - in that way he'd be giving back?
Win/Win situation there as far as I see. But again that is purely an opinion!

Yeah, like how I think that Robert Peston is the only man that can lead this country out of the depths of the recession, dignity intact.

It would be boring if there wasn't stuff like this to b*tch about.

You wait until some idiot starts a helmet debate again.

Exactly, I can remember a few times where i've thought about stopping posting or had a dispute with someone, but everyone has differences of opinion now and then.

It shouldn't stop anyone from posting or being part of the community, as I said, its like a big family here, brothers and sisters argue now and again, Tony, Dave and the other parents see us right in the end

Yes, don't stop posting Tim… if GKam had stopped posting the first time he caused… ahem, a bit of a stir in these parts his post count would barely have got out of double figures

Don't need to stop posting Tim, hang around, its a nice community here, this may not have been the best of introductions to the forum.

You have raised some valid points, which I hope I have answered.

Did you play the fantasy game at all last season? Check it out if thats something you might enjoy?

I don't hold grudges nor should anyone for this thread.

So Tim, now that Keith's appeal is out there, does that mean he's not entitled to keep personal gifts? What's next, auction any Christmas gifts from his granny as well?

As for the ultimatum with the cam, well let's put it this way: I disagreed with your original post, but could see what you were trying to say, so I posted a considered and detailed answer, but now? Now I just think you're a selfish, jealous arsehole who's suddenly revealed a manipulative train of thought.

As Cain's mum has said above and to me in private aswell.

Keep the camera, It was offered to me after I tweeted asking if anyone had one and what they thought of it, not asking for one. Just for an honest review. I was then kindly offered one that someone had in their cupboard after they bought a Go Pro.

It was offered to me on the understanding I would be using it to make future videos about me and my trike, to keep others informed.

I will go further into Cain's situation when myself and others are ready to do so, but getting him a bike suited to his needs will be the outlet for anything thats been donated to the auction and the left over from my appeal.

So by starting the ball rolling helping me, others will also be helping him, I then hope to keep that ball rolling, where myself and Cain's mother can find another child who may need help and then any left over money would continue to help others.

Have been looking into setting up a charity just for this, but it seems alot easier to keep it personal and fund raising, rather than a charity situation.

As I said, more details will come.

Stop posting, Tim, because the hole you're digging keeps getting bigger every time you post. Whatever your intention, your posts read as petty and mean-minded.

I donated to Gkam's appeal because I wanted and could afford to. Guess what? I have also donated to quite a few other appeals, on those occasions to charitable groups.

Dear Tim
Thnak you for your generous offer of a £100 But i'd much rather Keith kept the camera
Cains mum

Tim, your intentions seem to be good and you make some good points, but without knowing Keith personally there are a lot of things in your original post that you shouldn't comment on.

Knickers are well and truly twisted now.

I hope we get to see video evidence of the trike in action soon, Gkam shouting, 'out of the way, plebs!'

Tim, I can understand you questioning the ethics of Keith's appeal and Road.cc covering it. You are also correct that material possessions can not solve everything, but some of your comments go too far.
I'm not sure if it is right to ask strangers for money or for a website to cover an appeal like this which is for an idividual rather than a registered charity. However, I can see that Keith is well known on this site and is not going to con anyone. It is also clear that it would be extremely difficult for him to raise the money for the trike elsewhere.
As for some of your other comments; without knowing Keith personally how would you know what gadgets he owns or what he can afford and without being Keith himself you can't comment on whether he is mentally or physically capable of working.
I consider myself to be in a similar situation to Keith. I am 29 and have suffered from depression and anxiety for 12 years and further health problems recently. These problems forced me to drop out of university and I had to give up work after a couple of years. Cycling gives me an escape. I would love a top of the range road bike but make do with a hybrid which I have had for years. If I ever need a new bike I'm not sure if I could afford it, but I definitely wouldn't ask strangers for help on the internet.
I do think it is great that Keith had the courage to start his appeal and I hope he enjoys his trike and the community spirit on the site has been fantastic.
One last thing Tim you shouldn't tell an ill person what they should or shouldn't do or say that you understand because you have been through the same. No mental illness is the same as another only the person themselves can tell you how they feel.