Where does charity and generosity stop?

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  • #17601
    Tinternet_tim

    Firstly I would like to start by saying I am not an internet troll and I am not setting out to knock or belittle anyone. However I have felt so strongly about the ‘Gofundme’ story which has evolved over the months to furnish 1 individual with a £3000 to £4000 trike plus £100 or maybe even £1000 of kit I feel I have to share my view and maybe add so constructive criticism.

    I have read road.cc for some time now and never contributed but it is a great source of information for a sport and recreational activity I am so passionate about. I am also a twitter account user, therefore on numerous occasions I have seen plea’s to help get Keith back to cycling due to the early onset of Parkinson plus read the story he wrote about how difficult life has been since an early age.

    When this story first hit my twitter feed I contacted Keith directly and expressed my sympathy for his recent diagnoses as I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, however I did question his ethics as to whether he should think about his current lifestyle and selling some of his toys and gadgets before asking strangers for their hard earned cash to get him another VERY expensive bike/gadget.

    Keith has made his life very public by asking for this and with the information he posts it doesn’t take long to realise that cycling isn’t is only passion as he is also a guitarist, he is constantly on the internet and has a computer and a Android tablet, video camera, gorilla pod tripod type thing and he also has a smart phone and Sky tv, possibly a GPS device?, £60 – £70 of Olympics 50p!!, this is a lot for someone on benefits and who states cycling is his only passion!

    Maybe my up bringing has been different, but I have always been taught to live within your means and only have what you can afford. I know so many people who work 40 + hours a week and struggle to survive without any of the luxuries Keith has acquired.

    Keith is very obviously a kind and caring individual after reading his tweets and forum posts as he is very helpful to so many others, however maybe it is time to spend some of this energy on himself and look at his own life.
    My own personal views are that he sees material goods as a means of making him happy and getting him back to as normal life as possible, however this will only be a shortterm fix.
    I think it is fantastic that he is now looking for work and I think it will turn his life around, but maybe this should have been his first approach. If he is able to work, find work, start working, earn money and then purchase a trike, this is what he should have done. This is how 99.99% of the society works and it should be the same for him.
    Why does he need the trike over winter when Scotland is likely to be under feet of snow soon? The next 5 months would have been even more time to save

    Are there others near Keith who have Parkinson? As this trike has been funded by the generosity of others. Could the use of the trike also help others rather than just 1 individual? Is there a Parkinsons society near where Keith lifes where those with the conditions could hire the trike when it is not in use?
    This would help more people and also give all those that use it greater freedom and also enjoy the activity we are all so passionate about. If all those that use the trike become enthusiasts it will give them the motivation to save and purchase their own trike!

    If I am being brutally honest, I have read Keiths Gofundme page and he sees himself as a victim as he has tried things but keep quitting because things got difficult and he has continually been supported by society or others without taking responsibility for his own actions whether that is free accommodation, free sky tv and now free trike and the relentless gifts he has received over the last few months.

    What happens if the £3000 trike brakes or is damaged or if ‘god forbid’ it is stolen, will there be another plea to the cycling community to help? Is it insured ?

    Also, I have noticed that recently he has posted comments about ‘where can I buy x, y and z’ and on numerous occasions he has been sent these items free. Please think long and hard about this approach as peoples goodwill and generosity will reach a limit (please take this comment on board).
    I have also noticed that he has been sent items that don’t appear on the auction list, i.e. Castelli clothing, an action video camera etc, if he is truly honest that his only passion is to get back cycling he will put these items up for auction/sale and donate the funds to charity. I am sure Parkinson or MIND charities will greatly appreciate the donation to help lots of people rather than just 1.

    Also, he really needs to look at his lifestyle, If he REALLY wants to become employable he needs to get into a routine, not staying up until 5am in the morning on twitter and the computer and sleeping all day. Take all your tech out of your room, get to bed at a reasonable time and up at 8am, this will get you into a routine which will support a working life.

    Keith, as I have said earlier, I think you are such a giving person and helpful and kind to others, but please don’t see FREE materialistic things as the way to happiness, it will not solve anything in the long run.

    As someone who has also suffered from ill-health in recent years and as a result anxiety and depression I understand some of what you are going through. Maybe this has been part of my motivation to spend some time writing this and why I feel so strongly about my comments. It appears I am the only one with these views and I hope I don’t get my account suspended for these comments. As I said at the start it is not meant to be harmful or a personal attach. All I want is fairness and maybe to get EVERYONE to look at themselves and others and what is right.

    Please everyone continue this amazing generosity that we have seen over the last few months, but maybe to help communities and groups rather than 1 individual.

    Regards
    Tim

Viewing 15 replies - 31 through 45 (of 51 total)
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  • #710747
    0
    NeilG83

    Tim, I can understand you
    Tim, I can understand you questioning the ethics of Keith’s appeal and Road.cc covering it. You are also correct that material possessions can not solve everything, but some of your comments go too far.
    I’m not sure if it is right to ask strangers for money or for a website to cover an appeal like this which is for an idividual rather than a registered charity. However, I can see that Keith is well known on this site and is not going to con anyone. It is also clear that it would be extremely difficult for him to raise the money for the trike elsewhere.
    As for some of your other comments; without knowing Keith personally how would you know what gadgets he owns or what he can afford and without being Keith himself you can’t comment on whether he is mentally or physically capable of working.
    I consider myself to be in a similar situation to Keith. I am 29 and have suffered from depression and anxiety for 12 years and further health problems recently. These problems forced me to drop out of university and I had to give up work after a couple of years. Cycling gives me an escape. I would love a top of the range road bike but make do with a hybrid which I have had for years. If I ever need a new bike I’m not sure if I could afford it, but I definitely wouldn’t ask strangers for help on the internet.
    I do think it is great that Keith had the courage to start his appeal and I hope he enjoys his trike and the community spirit on the site has been fantastic.
    One last thing Tim you shouldn’t tell an ill person what they should or shouldn’t do or say that you understand because you have been through the same. No mental illness is the same as another only the person themselves can tell you how they feel.

    #710745
    0
    Tinternet_tim

    Gkam,
    Not that you or this

    Gkam,
    Not that you or this forum are going to believe me, but I am actually a genuine person and I don’t wish anyone any harm.
    I just feel that when you want things whether its due to misfortune or the obstacles that life throws at you you have to make some sacrifices.

    Maybe I am completely wrong on this one but I feel that you have material things that you could have sold which would have got you closer to your target before asking for help.

    So, how is this for a deal. Although that the video camera was a gift to you, this is something that you could add to the auction and then save with your own money to buy yourself a cam?
    If you add it to the auction I will donate £100 to benefit Cain as I am sure it will help towards changing his life when he is potentially unable to do anything about it.

    #710743
    0
    Stumps

    Gkam is very lucky to have a
    Gkam is very lucky to have a community around him such as ourselves, thousands of others dont.

    BUT

    That does not mean we cant help him, far from it. I’m very lucky in that i have good job (you all know about that) and hopefully a good pension to follow but some are not as lucky, i see it every day at work.

    Some care, the vast majority dont as its handed to them on a plate. Keith cares, and thats all that matters.

    As for Tim, well everyone is entitled to their views and that should never change, regardless of whether they are right or wrong.

    #710741
    0
    trikeman

    Gkam,
    don’t get wound up by

    Gkam,
    don’t get wound up by him – he is STILL mentioning your honesty, you won’t change his ‘skewed’ (or jealous) view. Envy, one of the sins.

    As in his opening garbage, he is 0.01% (v 99.99%) – not worth worrying about.

    Just forget him and his words.

    Regards,

    Trikeman. 😉

    #710739
    0
    Gkam84

    I believe that the Sky
    I believe that the Sky question was regarding Sky Sports….Which I watch via Sky Go on a friends account. Where as I referenced to you opening post about Sky Tv.

    You talk about this photo with the 50p’s http://t.co/1a5hBg6l

    If you look at it, I cannot upload it here for some reason that’s still to be sorted.

    But look closely, you will see its been pieced together, look at the shades of carpet….I had to do it in two pictures and put them together because I do not have that many 50p’s

    I am auctions ALL items I have received that are for the auction. I am not keeping anything that was asked for or donated towards the auction….

    I am not cherry picking any items, but if you are hinting at things like the video camera, that was a gift to ME and not to the auction, so I could carry on filming my vlogs, as I only have a camera on loan at the moment.

    Anything else you wish to address, by all means carry on, I don’t think anyone should have a go at you for your thoughts and opinion’s.

    I think you may have got some of the backlash because your first post seemed like a personal attack on me.

    Just to add, this is not the first time that Tim has asked these things, I’m quite happy to show you all this from twitter

    #710737
    0
    cactuscat

    Tinternet_tim wrote: taking a

    Tinternet_tim wrote:
    taking a picture and posting it on twitter spelling ‘The Sweetest Thing’ in 50ps uses 119 coins and not 62!

    😐

    #710735
    0
    Tinternet_tim

    Well, looks like I am the bad
    Well, looks like I am the bad guy!

    I thought long and hard before posting this and even though there are so many negative comments against me I am still glad I did.

    It looks like only certain aspects of my original post have been focused on, i.e. This person doesn’t deserve anything as he is a scrounger and unemployed!! But that is not what I have said!!

    When I first read Keith’s appeal I was so close to donating him some money as I could totally relate to cycling being a realise and a way of escape….some days it is the only thing that gets me through. However I spent a couple minutes reading his tweets to make sure I was happy to part with my cash and in my humble opinion I didn’t feel he was being completely honest as he only focused on what he wanted us to know.

    I still don’t feel Keith is being completely honest as taking a picture and posting it on twitter spelling ‘The Sweetest Thing’ in 50ps uses 119 coins and not 62!
    Also, when we exchanged tweets a few months ago you said you had sky via a friends account and your not Ganny’s account.
    Anyway, I am nit picking.

    Keith, As I said in my original post, you are obviously an extremely caring and thoughtful person, this has been shown by you auctioning SOME of the items you have received for someone else who is less fortunate than others. I wish the auction all the success in the world and the money you raise changes someone life who is unable change it themselves.

    I still stand by my comment (however unpopular they are) that you are much more fortunate than some and that there are thing you could do to help yourself before asking others. Please don’t cheery pick the items you have received and keep the ones you want and auction the others.

    I wish you the very best in the future and hope you can get back to leading a relatively normal life where you aren’t reliant on others. Maybe once you are back to work you can help repay the generosity the cycle community has shown you by choosing a charity that is close to your heart and set up a direct debut each month until the price of the trike has been reached. Hopefully this will be as rewarding knowing your hard earned cash has gone to help others?

    I guess there will be another tirade of abuse based on this post, however I would not have been true to myself if I didn’t express my views and beliefs, however I was hoping to do it in an balanced manner without causing emotion….I have obviously failed miserably on that one.

    #710733
    0
    Gkam84

    Lost Faith, As I said,
    Lost Faith, As I said, everyone can have their personal opinion’s. Which I am glad to read.

    The opening post, while giving opinion’s, also seemed like a personal attack. But others have come and given their opinion’s and once again, support. It is really one big family of cyclists here. Which I believe new members will see. We are not a cleek (SP) group where we don’t encourage others to get involved.

    I will have one more say on Tim’s opening post, he mentions that I have been getting things sent to me free.

    Yes, but not asked for, nor does whoever sent them let me know who they were from.

    One package had a pair of overshoes

    The other addressed to the Trike, had a Co2 inflater with a refill and a Minoura super grip extension to fit my lights on.

    All of this has been mentioned on twitter and will be in forth coming videos and blogs. I’m not hiding anything and am quite open to anyone and everyone asking questions. As said on my blog

    #710731
    0
    Lost faith in the brand

    while i wouldnt wish his
    while i wouldnt wish his illness on anyone i cant help but think it would of been better to donate the money to a charity for parkinsons rather than a trike for one person………..no offense gkam.

    but thats just my opinion which we are all entitled too. i dont spend much time on here as a lot of you which you will tell by my post count so maybe its something to do with that as i havent been following his situation like a lot of you have.

    i think it would probably be best to delete this topic rather than everyones opinions causing problems on the forum. obviously a topic like this isnt good for any new potential members to read….. ?

    #710729
    0
    Tony Farrelly

    As Barry says no-one was
    As Barry says no-one was compelled to give money and it’s easier on the internet to ignore things you don’t like or feel uncomfortable about with just the click of a mouse.

    We’ve always been wary of running charity storiies or appeal not because the causes aren’t valid they invariably are, but because we would find it hard to draw a line.

    We made an exception for Keith for the reason mentioned above ‘community’ since his first post he’s made a massive contribution to the sense of community on this site – in fact I think he has the highest post count of anyone on this website user or staff. He’s made a contribution to making road.cc what it is so we were only too happy to make a small contibution by publicising his plight and helping so many people get a sense of satisfaction from helping him get back on a bike.

    Totally agree with you about how good it would be if this level of generosity could be used to help groups of people, but very often it’s the individual’s story that galvanises us in to action and the bottom line here is that someone who needed help has been given it by people who were happy to give. I can’t see why that’s a problem.

    #710727
    0
    dave atkinson

    incidentally, the reason
    incidentally, the reason keith was up til 5am the other day was because he was sorting out all the roster changes and rider images for all the teams for the fantasy cycling game so i could get it launched on time. all of which he wouldn’t accept any payment for.

    just sayin’

    #710725
    0
    Dizzy

    I had to think long & hard as
    I had to think long & hard as how to respond, because my initial thoughts weren’t pleasant.
    I suppose it must be so wonderful to be able to judge someone without ever having walked in their shoes Tim.

    When I first heard of Keiths appeal through a friend I made a donation, it wasn’t much, because I don’t have much to give. Since then I have had the pleasure of being able to get to know Keith over the ‘net He is a great bloke, kind, caring & willing to help others wherever/however he can.
    He may have in your opinion lots of nice things, as do I, things that were bought when I had a good job & earning good money, things that have been bought for me & my children as presents.
    Times aren’t so good now, But we still have the nice things. If I thought selling some of them would help I would, but those things are not sellable, simply because the resale value of them once even a few months old is minimal.
    Keith made an appeal, which in itself took courage, no one was forced into donating, no strong arm tactics were used.. Folk simply saw a young man, that needed a helping hand & were happy to give it, small or large, money or items That was our choice.

    #710723
    0
    Leviathan

    Typical, I spent so long
    Typical, I spent so long looking for a link and trying to write a balanced post that answered the OP without slagging anyone off, that Keith had already posted. And it was a beautiful back-hand down the line, worthy of Andy Murray himself.

    #710721
    0
    Leviathan

    Well the world is shades of
    Well the world is shades of gray; I was a little surprise at the mention of depression in the appeal, but you have to credit him for being open. It can be very difficult to unwind the past choices anyone makes. He might have these toys but not everyone is an ebay whizz at getting rid of them and it is not his fault he is now off the road.

    At the end of the day I think the word to consider here is ‘community’, many people choose to give money to the appeal and a good chunk of it came from people trying to help another young lad at the same time:
    http://road.cc/content/forum/72460-one-gkams-old-bikes

    I am sure he would have hit his appeal target without this exchange, so credit Gkam for giving someone else a chance too. Not every appeal for help is just profit motivated.

    #710719
    0
    Barry Fry-up

    I chucked keith a few quid
    I chucked keith a few quid because he sounded like he could do with a boost. and i’m sure most of the other people on here that donated did the same. I’m not rich, but i’m not unemployed, a sufferer from depression and diagnosed with parkinson’s before i’m 30 either. boy could use some luck. presumably you posted here because the daily mail hasn’t run a story on it?

Viewing 15 replies - 31 through 45 (of 51 total)
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