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reported a dangerous driver - now charged with dangerous cycling. Help please

I need some help and advice.

i was cut up by a taxi, so shouted at him to give me some room.
as I came along his inside, he engaged me in conversation. I held onto his window frame to balance (clippy pedals), while we discussed highway code rule 163. He drove off without warning. I was in the impossible position of holding onto a (now) moving vehicle, knowing that if I let go I would definitely fall over, so I held on in the hope i could stabilise my self and come off safely - needless to say i didn't, since he continued to accelerate. He refused to give his details

I reported the driver to the police and have this week received a summons, charging me with dangerous driving.

Needless to say i am furious. I've been stitched up by the system - they only have my details because I reported the taxi driver myself.

an initial consultation with a solicitor is going to cost me £300, and possibly up to £2000 in defence costs. I've discussed the case with a JP, who thinks it should ever have come to court. but since it has, I'm forced to act.
the best financial solution, sadly is to take my lumps and plead guilty.

I'm wating to find out if my initial statement was ever received by the case manager - I can't believe that if they'd read both sides of the story they would have prosecuted me

I cannot believe that it was in teh public interest to prosecute me, the victim.

I think that this case will discourage cyclists from reporting dangerous driving, and if anything will encourage them to take the law into their own hands. If i'd scratched him and fucked off, I'd have got off scot free and had my revenge.

thoughts help and advice please kind people of road.cc

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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53 comments

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oozaveared | 9 years ago
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oh for god's sake man. See them in court. That way the magistrates will see your statement and probably give the CPS a rocket. They are going to need to prove that you were cycling dangerously and they probably can't except that your ststements says you were holding on to the window. But you made the complaint.

They are not going to find you guilty and so what if they do. If they do the absolute Max fine is £1000. So that would be absolutely bang to rights for the most eggrwith every single agravating factor, ie drunk or drugged, extended period, multiple instances, poor record, attempting to deny or evade, failing to assist the police etc etc. Since you have oodles of mitigation even if they technically find you guilty it's a slap on the wrist job.

Get a lawyer if you want and remember most home insurance policies will have cover for that. But seriously man - take the opportunity in court to embarass the silly buggers.

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PaulBox | 9 years ago
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Apart from all the sanctimonious twats on here, what I find most annoying is that the police/CPS or whoever is responsible for this, is wasting time and money prosecuting the fella. Surely there are more important things to be dealing with...

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edvelo | 9 years ago
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Also, there is a big difference between leaning on a stationary vehicle to gain balance while staying clipped in, and holding on, as the OP states he was.

If the situation arose and I couldn't unclip, but felt I had to stop to 'discuss' with the cabby, I certainly wouldn't hold on. Instead, I would simply lean using my palm, such that if he drove away, I could easily push off, avoiding this very scenario.

I'm not condoning the cabbies actions, but it seems this whole situation could have been avoided if the OP had just been the better person and got on with his life.

YOLO after all.

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rjfrussell | 9 years ago
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"as I came along his inside, he engaged me in conversation. I held onto his window frame to balance (clippy pedals)"

and

"I was holding on to a stationary taxi . he drove off knowing i was holding on"

The only available analysis of the facts here is that:

1- the Taxi was stopped.

2- the OP, cycling, clipped in, was overtaking on the left hand side. Presumably he considered there was sufficient space to go past on the left.

3- the taxi driver "engaged him in conversation."

4- the OP chose to stop.

5- But instead of unclipping to stop, he decided to keep his balance by holding on to the window frame.

As to the wisdom of the OP's behaviour:

Debatable points

- without knowing more detail, there is at least a questionmark as to whether he should have been passing on the inside at all.

- should he have stopped and engaged in conversation with a predictably irate cabby, or just got on with life.

BUT- NO DEBATE ABOUT IT:

- Unclip and put your feet down- do not lean on a vehicle.

If you are unable to unclip sufficiently quickly to do this, it is blindingly obvious you shouldn't be riding on the road clipped in- ride with flats until you can safely ride clipped in, which means being able to unclip when necessary.

If he could have unclipped but simply chose not to, that is both foolish and rude- and totally unacceptable, in my book- behaviour.

No view on the rights and wrongs of the prosecution, but no sympathy here for the OP. Brought it on himself.

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bashthebox | 9 years ago
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Drivers are generally awful in London. My GF has to drive to work because she does shifts at all hours - SE15 to Chiswick - and her experience in a small car is sometimes almost as terrifying as riding a bike can be. People cut people up, pull out stupidly, lean on their horns, tailgate and brake check - all the shit we have to deal with. Ok, you're protected in the metal box, but it's still shit.
There's just too many of us in London; using the congested roads is a stressful experience for everyone because there's a significant minority using the roads in an angry and aggressive way - and I would include some bike riders in that too, though bikes can't really cause damage to anyone (pedestrian crossing jumpers aside ).
For our safety and sanity, segregated routes are the only real solution. You can't, sadly, stop motorists from making mistakes, being angry, or generally being fucking tools.

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jacknorell replied to bashthebox | 9 years ago
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bashthebox wrote:

There's just too many of us in London; using the congested roads is a stressful experience...

Not really, there are just too many idiots* who insist on driving whether actually needed or not.

*Plenty of people who have good reasons for using a car as well, and no issues with that. Able-bodied people not needing to carry a lot of stuff shouldn't drive though.

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Paul J | 9 years ago
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abudhabichris:

Eh, a trademark restricts the ability to trade using a certain mark - the clue is in the word. Merely cycling on a bicycle with fake badges on can not breach trademark law. Further, trademarks are a civil matter - you generally can not be prosecuted for a breach of trademarks, in the sense that word usually applies to being prosecuted by the state for a breach of criminal law.

Copyright on a bicycle: Bicycles are pretty generic. They pretty much all look very similar. Even the latest high-end bikes often have few distinguishing features. Further, such features would have to be creative - not functional - to be covered under copyright. There are also design rights, but those have to be registered. Then there are patents, but there's little to be patented on a bicycle (outside the groupset perhaps - the big groupset makers patent every silly little thing they can). Also, again, these are all civil matters, and they can't be brought against the person who bought the bike (though, the bike could conceivably be confiscated, however the bike owner could pursue the vendor for their money back).

Basically, you're bringing up some rather flawed reasons for why we should disapprove of the OP.

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PonteD | 9 years ago
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A few words of advice:

Get a camera, if someone cuts you up then just get home and report it to the police. An errant driver is far more likely to listen to advice from a policeman who has seen the video evidence than they will listen to you, after all a policeman has a personal invitation to a police cell if the taxi driver argues with them.

Learn to unclip from your pedals and in future don't lean on Vehicles (stationary or not) and definitely don't hold onto them.

I appreciate it would be useful to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience (clearly not from the responses) but please try not to discuss this any further in a public forum. If anyone has any useful advice, PM them instead, it may be better for you if you don't effectively give a witness statement in a public forum.

Seek legal advice from a law firm who specialises in bicycle related law not just the local solicitor, a specialist may be aware of similar cases and can give you more informed advice and representation. Thankfully I have never had need to use one so unfortunately for you I cannot recommend one.

Finally, don't take legal advice from people on forums.

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Eebijeebi | 9 years ago
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Sounds like someone failed the attitude test.

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middleagedmoaner | 9 years ago
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IMVHO there may be something missing from the initial account. It would be highly unusual for a court summons to be issued in any situation on the strength of the uncorroborated word of one person against another. When applied to cycling/motoring issues, this sometimes works for the individual, and if they feel wronged, sometimes against them. There can be few of us who have never reacted to events in the heat of the moment, and thought better of it later. Safe riding all.

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MKultra | 9 years ago
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OFFS do not feed the troll.

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KirinChris replied to MKultra | 9 years ago
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MKultra wrote:

OFFS do not feed the troll.

But can't we poke it with a stick?

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daddyELVIS | 9 years ago
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My advice is don't get legal advice on an internet forum!

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kwi | 9 years ago
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There you go, sound advice from abudhabiChris.
Also find it hard to believe an initial consultation with a solicitor will cost as much as you think. In my experience that is usually free.

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KirinChris | 9 years ago
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I raised eyebrows when I saw the OP yesterday and the subsequent discussions and OP's contributions have done nothing to lower them.

You want opinions from a forum where you've been a member for one day, apparently joining just to vent a story.

You get annoyed that not everybody is being sympathetic and not giving the advice you want. On the internet.

You have been abusive to posters very quickly and completely inappropriately, which may be an indication of how you handle confrontations.

Your profile says you ride a Condor "pirate version". Does that mean a fake copy or a homage to Marco Pantani? if you are happy to tell everyone you ride a counterfeit bike then you seem to think the law doesn't apply to you when you feel like it.

Presumably you aren't a member of CTC or LCC or some other group which provides 3rd party insurance and legal access either.

As for your story, you initially didn't mention anything about damage to yourself or your bike or the driver not giving details in an accident. Or that he had stopped again after this altercation. Why didn't you call the police then and there? Did you not mention that to the police when reporting the driver? I find it hard to believe they have ignored this completely. Leaving the scene of an accident is generally frowned upon.

So, you want advice...

Your tale has too many holes and inconsistencies for me to have much faith that we've heard a complete and objective account. Forgive me if I am misjudging here, but from what I've read it all seems to be about You.

I suspect the police have a similar view and if your current conduct is anything to go by so will the magistrates. You may well be an innocent and blameless victim, meek as a lamb and pure as the driven snow, but I doubt your ability to convince them.

So, either plead guilty and take your fine, or get proper professional legal help and pay someone else to fill in the gaps and draw attention from the holes.

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to KirinChris | 9 years ago
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abudhabiChris wrote:

Your profile says you ride a Condor "pirate version". Does that mean a fake copy or a homage to Marco Pantani? if you are happy to tell everyone you ride a counterfeit bike then you seem to think the law doesn't apply to you when you feel like it.

I don't know about the rest of the discussion (don't really see what the OP hoped to achieve with posting the hard-to-follow tale here), but you confuse me with this. Are you saying its actually _illegal_ to ride a bike that looks like a different bike?

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KirinChris replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 9 years ago
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FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:
abudhabiChris wrote:

Your profile says you ride a Condor "pirate version". Does that mean a fake copy or a homage to Marco Pantani? if you are happy to tell everyone you ride a counterfeit bike then you seem to think the law doesn't apply to you when you feel like it.

I don't know about the rest of the discussion (don't really see what the OP hoped to achieve with posting the hard-to-follow tale here), but you confuse me with this. Are you saying its actually _illegal_ to ride a bike that looks like a different bike?

It's against the law to copy designs and trademarks and manufacture counterfeit goods.

Someone who knowingly buys fakes is complicit in that illegal process - whether it would satisfy a legal prosecution or not I couldn't say, but it is taking part in a criminal trade.

In the context of this discussion, it suggests to me that the person who does it has a certain disregard for the niceties of the law, one which doesn't square with running off to the police to complain about nasty taxi drivers.

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redmeat | 9 years ago
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Why in god's name would you hold on to someones car?

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Reg Molehusband | 9 years ago
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I've decided to start using my GoPro camera when cycling in town. I don't want to end up in the same unfortunate situation. Best of luck. You need some.

P.S. Discussing this further on the forum is not going to help your case. Go and speak to a solicitor.

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CXR94Di2 | 9 years ago
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Seek a solicitor, you need to know what options you have. Will this charge, if convicted affect other aspects of your life, getting new job, current job, insurance, loans etc. Can you plead it down to a lesser charge?

Seek professional help

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Stumps | 9 years ago
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You must have been interviewed and admitted your part in this, correct ?

Otherwise where did the info come from for the Police to make the decision to report you for the offence ?

You have to be cautioned and reported for the offence, did this not make you think about what was happening ?

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smileydave replied to Stumps | 9 years ago
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i wasn't interviewed - I reported the driver myself as a dangerous driver and hten heard nothing until I was charged.

should I have been interviewed under caution? thisis teh kndof help that I need

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bashthebox | 9 years ago
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There may well be blame on both sides, but it does seem vindictive of the police to charge you.
Don't think there's many cyclists who haven't got in a shouting match with some c-unit on the road before. Near death experiences will do that to you.

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FullGas | 9 years ago
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You shouldn't do anything before talking to a lawyer. Specially if it is IANAL advice from the Internet (sorry guys, it's the truth).

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Iamnot Wiggins | 9 years ago
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Man comes on to the internet for sympathy. Said man is shot down for being in the wrong. Internet wins. Again.

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smileydave replied to Iamnot Wiggins | 9 years ago
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man comes onto the internet for help. Gets precious little.
Smug twats who've had a bad day with the motherinlaw and have started drinking early come on the internet to abuse strangers and succeed. Well done internet you must be so proud.

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Judge dreadful replied to smileydave | 9 years ago
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smileydave wrote:

man comes onto the internet for help. Gets precious little.
Smug twats who've had a bad day with the motherinlaw and have started drinking early come on the internet to abuse strangers and succeed. Well done internet you must be so proud.

That pretty much sums it up.  41

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DrSport | 9 years ago
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It was a simple cutup and you escalated it to a ridiculous level. In the law's eyes, it isn't in the public interest to let an unremorseful, aggressive car grabber go his merry way. Be remorseful and you may get a lighter judgement.

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smileydave replied to DrSport | 9 years ago
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i dind't escalate it -the taxi driver escalated it.
i don't know where you've got the idea i was aggressive from?

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giff77 | 9 years ago
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Personally I think that you should bite the bullet and plead guilty, explain the circumstances, be incredibly contrite and hope for a judge with common sense. Otherwise it could go tits up. As others have said. You should have put your foot doŵn. Personally I ŵould have dropped back after yelling as that would have made it less likely for the confrontation. But then hindsight is 100% perfect. When you gave your statement did you state both were stationary before he moved off? The constable gives you the opportunity to review and point out any thing missed in translation before you sign it. As for being cut up by the taxi driver. It makes little odds if you were a cyclist or not. These buggers treat ALL road users with total contempt. The other day I watched one blaring his horn, Erving his engine and yelling abuse because the driver in front wasn't clearing a busy junction quickly enough due to one of the lanes being obscured.

If you do set up a crowd source for a defence fund I'm more than happy to chuck a few quid your way.

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