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Electronic shifting, tubeless etc…are bikes getting too complicated?

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  • November 30, 2022 at 3:13 pm #32357
    Shades

    I was listening to 2 cycling podcasts recently, one involving Geraint Thomas and the other David Miller; whilst not the main podcast topic, both had a dig against the latest bike technology.  G had problems with his electronic shifting, presumably whist training at home, and had contacted his mechanic who told him to check the batteries in the shifters.  He was a bit WTF (all the charging up etc)!  David Miller remarked that bikes previously just had cables and air; now it was fluids and electronics and was just, well, complicated.  I was recently riding with a friend who had electronic shifting, tubeless etc; putting his bike away he removed all the batteries ready for charging.  I asked what happens if the tubeless business doesn’t work; he said he’d call his wife to rescue him.  My wife gave me the ‘good luck with that one’ look.  Someone else was raging that, on a gloriously sunny morning, her husband said that a bike ride wasn’t on as his DI2 batteries weren’t charged; he needed 24 hrs notice.

    I’m pretty handy with bike maintenance; of the more recent innovations, hydraulics seems reliable and, apart from new pads, maintenance free, although maintaining cable brakes is dead easy.  Tubeless; I get it, but if you keep an eye on tyre wear and invest in decent tyres, then, hopefully, punctures are pretty infrequent.  Electronic shifting; is that necessary?  Just a trip to the LBS (booked up for weeks) when it goes wrong, wishing you had a simple cable system.  I often think to when you’re on holiday with your bike; if there’s a problem then sorting it yourself (if you’ve driven and have some tools/spares) means there’s no impact so why not keep the bike simple.  On a 2 week holiday in France I noticed my rear wheel had a slight buckle caused by a spoke nipple being pulled out through the rim.  A LBS couldn’t have been more disinterested if they’d tried when I enquired about a replacement wheelset (probably because I was a Brit); fortunately the rim held out although I was considering an emergency Decathlon purchase and sell the bike when I got home.  All this considered, I sense the bike industry has other ideas.

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  • December 7, 2022 at 9:26 am #1008687
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    hawkinspeter
    PRSboy wrote:
    I guess the beauty of modern cycling is that you can be a techno-fiend… some folks love the latest gadgets, equally others prefer it being an ‘analogue’ pursuit.  My worry is that the manufacturers are pushing us down a digital route (looking at you Shimano), along with a move to disc-brake only wheel upgrades.

    I personally cannot see what problem electronic shifting actually addresses over properly set-up and maintained cable shifters, without introducing different issues.

    I can see the advantage of discs, but not enough to upgrade my perfectly good and much-loved frameset.

    Tubeless seems to introduce a whole host of other issues… sealing the rim to the tyre, topping up sealant etc.  Even if I was running tubeless I’d go out with a tube and levers in case the sealant failed so I really don’t see the advantage.  I run tubes at quite low pressures anyway.

    Personally, I’m a fan of new tech and love to try out new stuff (as long as it’s not too pricey). The biggest innovation on road bikes is the combination of disk brakes and carbon wheels. Carbon allows wheel designers to craft specific shapes and disk brakes allows superb braking performance without compromising the design of the wheel so you can get decent whooshing sounds when they pick up speed.

    Tubeless does provide excellent ride quality and the lack of the P word is obviously good, but I can see why people might prefer tubes. Electronic shifting is only a slight improvement on cable gears and also brings some downsides.

    December 7, 2022 at 7:47 am #1008685
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    kinderje

    A friend of mine rides

    A friend of mine rides tubeless and I have seen both sides of th argument for them now. On one ride he punctured twice and I only knew about it because the rider behind him (luckily not me) was sprayed slightly. On both times it was a quick check, still presure in the tyre and we carried on. On another ride we all heard the noise as his tyre had split and sealant was all over the road. No way of sealing or plugging it and rather than putting an inner tube in, with all the resultant mess, he decided to call his wife to come pick him up. After the first incident I was impressed and interested in the possibility of going tubeless now I think I will stick with inner tubes.

    December 7, 2022 at 7:40 am #1008683
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    jaymack

    By the Power of Greyskull…
    By the Power of Greyskull…

    December 7, 2022 at 4:48 am #1008681
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    fukawitribe

    Who are these people ? What
    Who are these people ? What channels ? I watch a fair few cycling related ones but haven’t come across these yet, might be amusing..

    December 7, 2022 at 4:41 am #1008679
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    fukawitribe

    “As I understand it huge
    “As I understand it huge tyres are only necessary to soften the effects of the stiff, overbuilt forks on road bikes needed to counter the force of disc brakes”
    Um, no. What made you think that ?

    December 7, 2022 at 4:24 am #1008677
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    fukawitribe

    That’s amazing ! How on earth
    That’s amazing ! How on earth do they get themselves up the hill ?

    December 7, 2022 at 1:11 am #1008675
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    mark1a

    Too tip for tubeless tyres.

    Top tip for tubeless tyres.  A couple of years ago I was replacing the sealant on my gravel bike. Thought I’d do this in the garden as it had the potential to be messy.

    Always make sure you shake the bottle of Stans before refilling the tyres, but crucially, make sure the cap is fully closed. 

    Face like a plasterer’s radio… ?

    December 6, 2022 at 11:29 pm #1008673
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    ktache

    I have been enjoying learning

    I have been enjoying learning about my hydraulic disk brakes (luckily Hope) and low pressure tubeless set up.

    My disks require much less maintenance than my XT levered Curve cantilevers, but more than my ceramic xtr Vs (Nokon cabled for even more ease, after after initial setup). After obtaining the corrct bleed kit I can do a yearly change of fluid, hygroscopic fill, and then a later bleed, and I’m getting better at this, and will over the years. Cleaning, lubricating and working it into the piston seals for servicing was initially unexpected, but as often, effort is rewarded. Not grinding through my precious Mavic xc717s is appreciated.

    After some horrible experiences changing tubeless tyres, I reduced the quantity of rim tape, from two and a bit to one and a bit wraps, making it much easier, with less hilarity for the better half. And pulling the beads out of the well as much as possible means I only need to pressurise the essential bottle once.  I still carry a tube (heavy) and levers, (I cannot not be me) but in three and a bit years have never even thought of fitting it, not that I could have done it out there before figuring out the tape thing.  Watching holes seal just puts a smug grin on my face, and I took great enjoyment needing to use my one and only anchovy. The noise of the bead seating still terrifies me.

    As with everything bicycle, a learning experience and effort is rewarded. I need my bike too much to leave it with the LBS.

    Rohloff is agricultural simplicity itself.

    December 6, 2022 at 9:41 pm #1008671
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    jaymack

    My brother’s bikes have all

    My brother’s bikes have all the electronic gizmos you could want and disc brakes too boot. Strangely my analogue bike, all cantilever brakes and pesky cable actuated gears still gets to the top of the hill first…

    December 6, 2022 at 10:25 am #1008669
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    Awavey

    but these cyclist vloggers, I

    but these cyclist vloggers, I believe is how they label themselves, rather than just being angry cyclists ranting about stuff, are often the biggest proponents of tubeless setups.

    Yet on average seem to suffer as many punctures and are forever plugging holes as anyone with tubes would in the same situation, and half the time the sealant doesnt seem to work properly.

    and theyll often get home post ride and say things like well the tubeless didnt work that time because Id not kept the sealant fresh enough or some other weird excuse, which just complicates managing the setup, you just want to fit tyres and forget about them.

    I know some in the cycling world love to endlessly fettle tech on their bike, but I just want to get on my bike and ride

    December 6, 2022 at 10:19 am #1008667
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    peted76

    If a cyclist wants to do

    If a cyclist wants to do their own maintenence, then frankly I’d say yes.. bike maintenece is getting more complex. But that’s where your choice and voice as a customer comes in, you pays your money…

    A few years ago, replacing a gear/brake cable, brake pads or an innertube was easy, required not much more than pliers, a screwdriver and a couple of levers. 

    Now, personally I don’t think about doing my hydralic brakes myself, gear control is battery operated and any issues there are again a job for the LBS, tubeless tyres were a steep learning curve when they came out but besides topping up a couple of times a year reward me with fewer problems thantubes. Things are defo more complex.. (and also more expensive) … but is all this ‘new stuff’ better that’s the real question… to which I’d probably say on balance, yes. I can now stop better in the wet, have less roadside faff with tyres and bikes look better (subjective) without cables running all over them.  

    Saying all of that.. I still want a ‘simple’ bike for nipping into town on which doesn’t cost me much time, effort or money to maintain..

    December 6, 2022 at 10:03 am #1008665
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    PRSboy

    I guess the beauty of modern

    I guess the beauty of modern cycling is that you can be a techno-fiend… some folks love the latest gadgets, equally others prefer it being an ‘analogue’ pursuit.  My worry is that the manufacturers are pushing us down a digital route (looking at you Shimano), along with a move to disc-brake only wheel upgrades.

    I personally cannot see what problem electronic shifting actually addresses over properly set-up and maintained cable shifters, without introducing different issues.

    I can see the advantage of discs, but not enough to upgrade my perfectly good and much-loved frameset.

    Tubeless seems to introduce a whole host of other issues… sealing the rim to the tyre, topping up sealant etc.  Even if I was running tubeless I’d go out with a tube and levers in case the sealant failed so I really don’t see the advantage.  I run tubes at quite low pressures anyway.

    December 6, 2022 at 9:58 am #1008663
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    hawkinspeter
    Secret_squirrel wrote:
    Uncle Stans is shite for road.  Orange Endurance is what you want.  Plus overdose it for the first couple of applications if using new tyres.

    Its a fair critism of tubeless that its a lottery of variable factors.  Its magic once you get it settled.  Borderline on 28mm tyres and pressures imo, good on 30-32.  Bloody magic on anything bigger.

    (No worse than the “chain lube freaks” though.  And much more real life benefits than any chain lube apporach you will find.)

    Caffelatex works well too. You do need to top it up every so often though – most of my tyre problems come from when the sealant’s all dried up.

    December 6, 2022 at 9:24 am #1008661
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    peted76
    Secret_squirrel wrote:
    Its a fair critism of tubeless that its a lottery of variable factors.  Its magic once you get it settled. 

    Tubeless bad experience = this is all you need to know. 

    December 6, 2022 at 9:07 am #1008659
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    Secret_squirrel

    Uncle Stans is shite for road

    Uncle Stans is shite for road.  Orange Endurance is what you want.  Plus overdose it for the first couple of applications if using new tyres.

    Its a fair critism of tubeless that its a lottery of variable factors.  Its magic once you get it settled.  Borderline on 28mm tyres and pressures imo, good on 30-32.  Bloody magic on anything bigger.

    (No worse than the “chain lube freaks” though.  And much more real life benefits than any chain lube apporach you will find.)

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