[Shades]

I was listening to 2 cycling podcasts recently, one involving Geraint Thomas and the other David Miller; whilst not the main podcast topic, both had a dig against the latest bike technology.  G had problems with his electronic shifting, presumably whist training at home, and had contacted his mechanic who told him to check the batteries in the shifters.  He was a bit WTF (all the charging up etc)!  David Miller remarked that bikes previously just had cables and air; now it was fluids and electronics and was just, well, complicated.  I was recently riding with a friend who had electronic shifting, tubeless etc; putting his bike away he removed all the batteries ready for charging.  I asked what happens if the tubeless business doesn’t work; he said he’d call his wife to rescue him.  My wife gave me the ‘good luck with that one’ look.  Someone else was raging that, on a gloriously sunny morning, her husband said that a bike ride wasn’t on as his DI2 batteries weren’t charged; he needed 24 hrs notice.

I’m pretty handy with bike maintenance; of the more recent innovations, hydraulics seems reliable and, apart from new pads, maintenance free, although maintaining cable brakes is dead easy.  Tubeless; I get it, but if you keep an eye on tyre wear and invest in decent tyres, then, hopefully, punctures are pretty infrequent.  Electronic shifting; is that necessary?  Just a trip to the LBS (booked up for weeks) when it goes wrong, wishing you had a simple cable system.  I often think to when you’re on holiday with your bike; if there’s a problem then sorting it yourself (if you’ve driven and have some tools/spares) means there’s no impact so why not keep the bike simple.  On a 2 week holiday in France I noticed my rear wheel had a slight buckle caused by a spoke nipple being pulled out through the rim.  A LBS couldn’t have been more disinterested if they’d tried when I enquired about a replacement wheelset (probably because I was a Brit); fortunately the rim held out although I was considering an emergency Decathlon purchase and sell the bike when I got home.  All this considered, I sense the bike industry has other ideas.

Topic

[pablo]

I love electronic shifting
I love electronic shifting because it’s set and forget but the latest prices from Shimano are taking the p@#s. They pushed ultegra into the unaffordable category over £2k.

[IanMSpencer]

I’m not thinking that

I’m not thinking that charging a battery every month or two is harder than regular lubrication of nowawadays inaccessible gear cables along with occasional adjustment through the life of the cable. Our riding group has evolved a get you home emergency cable (the front 6″ of a gear cable) to tie into a rear derailleur as so many riders were being caught out with the frayed cable in shifter failure. I’m an old fashioned wired Di2 man, but if I upgrade, new batteries every 2 years isn’t going to put me off!

I am genuinely intrigued at what Miller perceives as being a major negative maintenance issue over cable gears. It may be a SRAM thing???

[andystow]

IanMSpencer wrote:

IanMSpencer wrote:

What routine maintenance are you doing on electronic shifting?

I’d count charging batteries as routine maintenance. Also replacing coin cells in the controls.

[levestane]

Folk should use the bike that

Folk should use the bike that works for them. Bike have got more complicated but so has everything else. Stuff is maybe easier to use but harder to fix. Index gear shifting never seemed mechanically satisfying and seems a natural partner for electronic shifting. Friction shifting needs more mechanical empathy, and when got wrong is largely operator error. Which you use depends on your likes and priories; both are equally valid.

I’ve not gone tubeless but do use plastic tubes (Schwalbe Aerothan) that do seem to roll better than butyl and don’t go flat like latex. Again, experiment and see what works best for you.

[IanMSpencer]

What routine maintenance are
What routine maintenance are you doing on electronic shifting?

[Miller]

I love e-shifting and
I love e-shifting and tubeless but both require routine maintenance in a way that previous cycling tech did not. I’m fine with that and can deal with the technicalities but many other people can not. It’s best to know what you’re getting into.

[hawkinspeter]

IanMSpencer wrote:

I should add a caveat (as should everyone) that one person’s experience doesn’t represent a good sample, however, in the club people are generally content with their Di2. I’m more irritated by the lack of upgradeability without the expense – mine was the battery version just before they introduced better programmability so I’ve only got basic shifting.

I do like Di2, but it is expensive. The battery price is definitely a rip-off – a cheap lithium cell and a bit of electronics for over £100! I wouldn’t recommend using it for touring in areas that don’t have well stocked bike shops due to the chances of it failing – could do with a manual control of the gears (e.g. at the derailleur) for when the battery fails. All it needs is a little lever/control that disconnects the cage from the motor so that you can move it by hand to the desired gear and then fix it in that position – would only allow you to use one gear at a time, but you could at least hop off and change it for big hills.

[IanMSpencer]

I should add a caveat (as

I should add a caveat (as should everyone) that one person’s experience doesn’t represent a good sample, however, in the club people are generally content with their Di2. I’m more irritated by the lack of upgradeability without the expense – mine was the battery version just before they introduced better programmability so I’ve only got basic shifting.

[Tom_77]

Pretty much everything is a

Pretty much everything is a trade off – cost, performance, reliability, maintainability, aesthetics, etc.

I prefer disc brakes to rim brakes, electronic shifting is too costly for me (but I’d be happy to use it if it was cheaper). Haven’t tried tubeless tyres, I use airless ones on my commuter bike and normal tubes on my road bike. If I was getting a lot of punctures on the road bike I’d give tubeless a go, but I average less than one per year.

[Woldsman]

I know I’m an old fuddy duddy

I know I’m an old fuddy duddy, I know, I know.  But some thoughts…

Although I still have bikes with downtube levers I do favour my STI lever bikes, and I don’t miss side pull (ie ‘single pivot’) brake calipers.  Dual pivots were a huge improvement.  And although they are as aesthetic as an pile of scaffolding, I do appreciate that Ahead stems have an advantage over quill stems in that I can remove my handlebars (for whatever reason?) without having to retape one side of the bars.  However…

Although I don’t really begrudge anyone wanting disc brakes, it’s just a pity that this seems to have led to a lack of choice for those who still want rim brake bikes.  I’m hoarding the necessary bits (including road triple components) and I’ve bought second hand rim brake framesets until I inevitably have to give up the ghost and get an e-gravel-aero-bike or something or other.  

I watched a YouTube video of a team mechanic assembling a new bike.  What an absolute faff! Where does the obsession for internal cabling come from?  I’ll pass on that one, too.  

As I understand it huge tyres are only necessary to soften the effects of the stiff, overbuilt forks on road bikes needed to counter the force of disc brakes.  And apart from the squeaky noises of the rotors I am bemused by slime being slung from the tyres of my mates’ bikes.  I buy decent tyres instead. 

I volunteered at one of this year’s LEL Audax controls.  A common theme was riders fetching up asking for electronic shifting chargers because they couldn’t change gear.  In theory it should be possible to keep on top of this, but I’m just not convinced it’s necessary – “a solution looking for a problem”, as someone said.  

So, for now at least, I’m sticking with 10-speed and rim brakes (compatible across most of my commonly used bikes – even though I’ve had to buy an 11-speed wheelset lately), with exposed *actual* cables.  

And the price of all this jazzy new stuff!  Anyway, that’s where I’m at.  I appreciate that I’m a bit of a Luddite.  

 

[Rezis]

Only if you want them to be,

Only if you want them to be, I still run a singlespeed with tubes…

[Kapelmuur]

The thing that concerns me is

The thing that concerns me is obsolescence. I have a Cube e road bike with Fazua evation system.   Now Cube don’t use Fazua.   I know other brands do but don’t know whether the hardware is interchangeable.

Re tubeless, a boon for me as my arthritic hands make mending punctures a long and uncomfortable process.   I got home from a recent ride in hawthorn hedge territory with 8 thorns sticking out of my rear tyre.   All 8 holes sealed and no loss of pressure.

[IanMSpencer]

In 5 years I’ve had one

In 5 years I’ve had one puncture where I needed to put a tube in, on an out of mileage Schwalbe One, which I found were very unreliable in construction. Giant own brand and Conti GP5000 have been rock solid and in 5 years I’ve used one plug on a large glass cut. That’s about 25,000 miles.

[hawkinspeter]

Awavey wrote:

Awavey wrote:

but why does nearly every cyclist youtube channel with tubeless, who goes out on a ride nearly always get a puncture ? they rarely seem to last more than a couple of rides before oh stop for a puncture again.

That’ll be the Big Tubes lobbyists sabotaging them

[Awavey]

but why does nearly every

but why does nearly every cyclist youtube channel with tubeless, who goes out on a ride nearly always get a puncture ? they rarely seem to last more than a couple of rides before oh stop for a puncture again.

[Author]

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