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Issues with Evans Cycles and my Pinnacle bike

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  • May 3, 2018 at 8:54 am #28471
    ClubSmed

    In October 2015 I purchased a Pinnacle Arkose 3 from Evans Cycles and have been immensely impressed with both it and the Evans service, until a few weeks ago.

    Whilst cycling home, without warning, the rear hanger snapped and sent the rear derailleur through the spokes of the rear wheel. As there was nothing I could do at the scene I was forced to push my bike the remaining miles of the journey. When back, the first thing I did was get online and order a new rear hanger (I already had a spare derailleur so this was not an issue).

    A few days later the hanger arrived in store and I picked it up so that I could fix the bike and continue my daily commute by bike. Upon return home with the supplied hanger however, I discovered that it did not fit my bike! I checked the code on the side (BGRD-4) and it was correct but the hanger did not match shape of the broken one or the image on the Evans website.

    I contacted Evans online for assistance in this matter as I was very confused to say the least. After a lot of back messages and images sent and forth over several days (and being forced to commute by train) I finally got the correct hanger.

    More poignantly, I learnt during this time that:

    • In 2011 Evans changed the shape of the BGRD-4 to the one I had
    • The old shape then became BGRD-1
    • I had somehow received old (pre 2012) stock of the BGRD-4
    • The BGRD-4 had been recalled in December 2015
    • The replacement hanger was BGRD-4. (full stop at the end)

    This means that the hanger breaking was possibly not just a freak accident but a flaw in the item itself!

    The email for the recall had slipped through the cracks and escaped my notice, however in May 2016 my bike was booked into an Evans Cycles store for a “Silver Service”. I believe that as part of this service the recalled hanger should have been identified and replaced, Evans are of the opinion that as “The Silver Service that you booked was five months after the recall. This would not have been looked at“.

     

    I believe that it does not matter if it is 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months or 5 years. If the item that they sold me was defective and they had the opportunity to resolve this then they should have done. As they did not I think that they should compensate me for the damage to the derailleur and wheel but I seem to be getting nowhere.

     

    Am I wrong, should I just accept that it was my fault for not seeing the recall notice within a period of less than 5 months?

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  • May 11, 2018 at 8:30 pm #918801
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    ClubSmed
    Welsh boy wrote:
    Ok, so you try to convince everyone that the gear hanger snapped all on its own without you doing anything then you suddenly remember that you crashed because of a fault with the bile, a minor point which escaped your memory until someone pointed out this potential problem with the bikes. M, I don’t think we are getting the whole truth in the original post are we

    You are actually.

    The hanger did snap in the normal course of my commute home,  at the time that the hanger snapped I just put it down to experience and if the correct replacement had arrived I would never have questioned if the hanger should break or not. I came on here with this question and discovered that is is designed to be a disposable part. I accepted this and was happy that it did what it was meant to do but still unhappy that:

    1. It was not replaced during a “Full Safety Check” carried out within 6 months of the recall
    2. I had to deal with numerous correspondance over more than a week to resolve the incorrect part being sent
    3. I was being accused of causing the incorrect item to be sent

    Last year I came off my bike when the rear wheel slipped from under me on the commute home. I put it down to experience at the time but as I was discussing (ranting) about the service issues I had (along with the recall, it not being replaced and hangers designed to fail) and my partner reminded me that of the accident that I had. Luckily I had documented this incident at the time so it was easy to refer back to once I had been reminded of it.

    Pretty much most things I put down to experience and just carry on until I have new evidence that makes me question/re-examine the issue. Just like I did with the hanger, if the correct part had come and I had not been presented with the information about the recall then I would have just carried on as normal putting it down to experience. Does everyone not do the same?

    May 11, 2018 at 8:01 pm #918799
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    Welsh boy

    Ok, so you try to convince

    Ok, so you try to convince everyone that the gear hanger snapped all on its own without you doing anything then you suddenly remember that you crashed because of a fault with the bile, a minor point which escaped your memory until someone pointed out this potential problem with the bikes. M, I don’t think we are getting the whole truth in the original post are we

    May 11, 2018 at 10:41 am #918797
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    rdmp2

    I also own a Pinnacle and

    I also own a Pinnacle and ClubSmed is right- they are Evans in house brand. 100% owned by Evans. Designed in UK, built in far East but I would expect assembled (?) QC’d (?) in UK

    May 11, 2018 at 9:09 am #918795
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    ClubSmed

    Canyon48 wrote:

    Canyon48 wrote:
    Unfortunately, I think you are wasting your time. The fact Evans owns pinnacle makes very little difference in reality, they still buy pinnacle bikes in a similar fashion to how they would any other bike. The quality control is unlikely to be solely done in the UK, every so often a bike will be checked by the UK team, but it will be up to the OEM to do most the QC. Evans cycles aren’t much better than halfords, I wouldn’t waste your time with them any longer.

    OK, lets try and clear up this whole thing about Pinnacle and Evans. I have clearly confused things by refering to  Pinnacle Bikes as a company, it isn’t. Pinnacle Bikes is a brand owned by Evans Cycles.
    Here are the facts:
    Pinnacle was created as a bike brand by Evans
    https://www.evanscycles.com/coffeestop/news/pinnacle-bikes-brand-history
    There is no seperate companies house listing for Pinnacle Bikes
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search?q=Pinnacle+Bikes
    The Trademark for “Pinnacle” (relating to bikes and parts) registered with the Government Intellectual Property Office is held by Evans Cycles
    https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/4/EU005256417
    There is a blog post of a visit to Pinnacle Bikes detailing what they do
    https://bikemagic.com/news/pinnacle-bikes-factory-visit.html

    They are far from being a seperate real company, Pinnacle Bikes is just a glorified department within Evans Cycles. The Design, quality Checking, Building and Selling of these bikes are all done By Evans Cycles. They outsource the manufacture to the far east but (as it is to Evans Cycles design and Quality Checked by Evans Cycles after) the fact that they outsource this element is irrelevant. In fact there are many bike manufacturers who outsource the manufacturing to the far east, but if I had a complaint with KONA/Voodoo/Van Nicholas/Dawes/Raleigh/Specialized/Boardman/Giant/Trek/Dahon (to name a few), I would not go to the outsourced factory, I would go to KONA/Voodoo/Van Nicholas/Dawes/Raleigh/Specialized/Boardman/Giant/Trek/Dahon

    May 10, 2018 at 10:27 pm #918793
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    Canyon48

    Unfortunately, I think you
    Unfortunately, I think you are wasting your time.

    The fact Evans owns pinnacle makes very little difference in reality, they still buy pinnacle bikes in a similar fashion to how they would any other bike. The quality control is unlikely to be solely done in the UK, every so often a bike will be checked by the UK team, but it will be up to the OEM to do most the QC.

    Evans cycles aren’t much better than halfords, I wouldn’t waste your time with them any longer.

    May 10, 2018 at 8:55 pm #918791
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    ClubSmed
    rdmp2 wrote:
    `i think you’re being a bit unfair to Evans. They are clearly at fault for sending you the wrong replacement hanger but I don’t think its reasonable to expect them to pick up on a recalled mech hanger after so long (even on their own brand bike). They did notify you of it at the time. Is a “full safety check” supposed to check every minor part against a recall list? Assuming they make money on services such checks would have to lead to price increases to cover. The failure you experienced doesn’t appear to be related to the recall anyway

    I agree that the failure of the hanger does not seem to be related to the recall issue, it is just the catalyst that brought all of this to light. I did have an off due to wheel slip last year though and have now put connected the two things and it is currently with their insurers.

    The issue with the the wrong hanger being sent is the issue that I was still trying to resolve with Evans Cycles but they were unwilling to accept that they had made any mistake and tried to shift the blame constantly throughout the dialogue back and forth. This has been going on for months and all I wanted was an apology and acknowledgement that they would look into the issue so that it did not happen again. They are unwilling to do this however.

    May 10, 2018 at 7:46 pm #918789
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    rdmp2

    `i think you’re being a bit

    `i think you’re being a bit unfair to Evans. They are clearly at fault for sending you the wrong replacement hanger but I don’t think its reasonable to expect them to pick up on a recalled mech hanger after so long (even on their own brand bike). They did notify you of it at the time. Is a “full safety check” supposed to check every minor part against a recall list? Assuming they make money on services such checks would have to lead to price increases to cover. The failure you experienced doesn’t appear to be related to the recall anyway

    May 10, 2018 at 7:05 pm #918787
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    ClubSmed
    crazy-legs wrote:
    I do however expect an Evans Cycles mechanic to know about issues on bikes that have been Designed, Quality Checked, Built and sold by Evans Cycles. Especially where Evans Cycles have identified the issue and published it in their stores.

    Pinnacle are exclusive to Evans. They are not designed or built by Evans.

    Every single bike sold by Evans (and indeed pretty much any bike shop) is “built” from a box (ie they come partially assembled, they are then fully assembled and PDI’d – pre-delivery inspected) so the brand of bike really has no bearing on the matter. All brands should be treated the same.

    Any recall (as I mentioned before) is posted within the shop network, printed out on the wall of the workshop etc and again, the brand of bike, type of recall etc has no bearing on that. I remember dealing with a recall on some hubs – the manufacturer concerned had found that some of it’s own brand hubs sold as original equipment on a certain model of bike could fail so they were issuing new wheels, asking for the old ones to be destroyed etc and we did that for a few months and then the flow of wheels stopped. It’s entirely possible that some people missed that recall and were riding round on those wheels for months/years thereafter by which time the recall notice had long since been taken down, staff might have moved on, forgotten about it etc and if you took that bike into the shop a year down the line it wouldn’t be noticed.

    With the volume of bikes they have through each workshop, the timeframes that are being worked to, the variation in training of the staff (eg brand new mechanic / Saturday boy vs full time head mechanic) it’s not entirely unreasonable for a relatively innocuous part to be missed.

    You are incorrect when you say that “Pinnacle are exclusive to Evans. They are not designed or built by Evans” Pinnacle Bikes are owned by Evans and as such designed by Evans.

    https://www.evanscycles.com/coffeestop/news/pinnacle-bikes-brand-history

    Pinnacle bikes design the bikes in England, manufacture them in the far east and then quality check them back in England

    https://bikemagic.com/news/pinnacle-bikes-factory-visit.html

    If it was just another bike brand in any bike shop I could see your point, but as I have said before, it was an Evans Cycles Designed, Quality Checked, Built and Sold bike. So a Service in an Evans Cycles Store by an Evans Cycles Trained Mechanic carrying out a “Full Safety Check” where “even small details … are rectified” (their words not mine) it should not cover all safety aspects, especially recall issues that Evans Cycles have identified and communicated themselves. Otherwise what they are carrying out is not a “Full Safety Check” where “even small details … are rectified”

    Or am I missing something?

    May 10, 2018 at 4:40 pm #918785
    0
    crazy-legs

    Quote:

    I do however expect an Evans Cycles mechanic to know about issues on bikes that have been Designed, Quality Checked, Built and sold by Evans Cycles. Especially where Evans Cycles have identified the issue and published it in their stores.

    Pinnacle are exclusive to Evans. They are not designed or built by Evans.

    Every single bike sold by Evans (and indeed pretty much any bike shop) is “built” from a box (ie they come partially assembled, they are then fully assembled and PDI’d – pre-delivery inspected) so the brand of bike really has no bearing on the matter. All brands should be treated the same.

    Any recall (as I mentioned before) is posted within the shop network, printed out on the wall of the workshop etc and again, the brand of bike, type of recall etc has no bearing on that. I remember dealing with a recall on some hubs – the manufacturer concerned had found that some of it’s own brand hubs sold as original equipment on a certain model of bike could fail so they were issuing new wheels, asking for the old ones to be destroyed etc and we did that for a few months and then the flow of wheels stopped. It’s entirely possible that some people missed that recall and were riding round on those wheels for months/years thereafter by which time the recall notice had long since been taken down, staff might have moved on, forgotten about it etc and if you took that bike into the shop a year down the line it wouldn’t be noticed.

    With the volume of bikes they have through each workshop, the timeframes that are being worked to, the variation in training of the staff (eg brand new mechanic / Saturday boy vs full time head mechanic) it’s not entirely unreasonable for a relatively innocuous part to be missed.

    May 10, 2018 at 3:16 pm #918783
    0
    ClubSmed
    crazy-legs wrote:
    I do believe however that I am entitled to an apology from Evans Cycles for their failure to replace the recalled item on the own brand bike whilst servicing it in store within 6 months of the recall.

    You expect every single mechanic to know every single recall on every make / model of bike that comes in?

    Having worked at several Evans branches (many years ago) I know that we used to have recall notices pinned up in the workshops and shops would make every effort to contact customers who had bought that item within the recall period but if someone brings a bike in 6 months later (having, by their own admission, ignored the email highlighting the recall) then it’s unrealistic to expect the shop to pick it up. I would *hope* that they’d pick it up but certainly wouldn’t *expect” it.

    I was separating the Service/Recall issue from the Order/fulfillment issue, but as you brought it back up….

    I do not expect them to know every single recall on every make/ model of bike.

    I do however expect an Evans Cycles mechanic to know about issues on bikes that have been Designed, Quality Checked, Built and sold by Evans Cycles. Especially where Evans Cycles have identified the issue and published it in their stores.

    The recall notice only asks for the nearest Evans Cycles store to be contacted so that they have the oportunity to replace the hanger. I did contact my nearest Evans Cycles store and gave them the oportunity to replace the hanger. Also, I did not ignore the email, I did not see the email in the first place.

    Also as they state that the service includes a “full safety check” where “even small details … are rectified” why would I not expect a safety recall that Evans Cycles identified be resolved? If they claimed a “basic safety check” then I could understand, this is not what they claim however.

    May 10, 2018 at 2:57 pm #918781
    0
    ClubSmed

    Thanks for the advice.

    Thanks for the advice.

    I was not doing this to get compensation for the poor customer service around the hanger replacement. I just wanted the issue to be recognised and for them to look into how their process failed and to try to fix it. I have a long history in process improvement so I try to offer constructive feedback so that things can improve going forward. However in this case they do not seem interested in improving their process or customer experience, only in trying to blame the customer with implausable statements.

    May 10, 2018 at 2:55 pm #918779
    0
    crazy-legs

    Quote:

    I do believe however that I am entitled to an apology from Evans Cycles for their failure to replace the recalled item on the own brand bike whilst servicing it in store within 6 months of the recall.

    You expect every single mechanic to know every single recall on every make / model of bike that comes in?

    Having worked at several Evans branches (many years ago) I know that we used to have recall notices pinned up in the workshops and shops would make every effort to contact customers who had bought that item within the recall period but if someone brings a bike in 6 months later (having, by their own admission, ignored the email highlighting the recall) then it’s unrealistic to expect the shop to pick it up. I would *hope* that they’d pick it up but certainly wouldn’t *expect” it.

    May 10, 2018 at 2:54 pm #918777
    0
    davel
    hennahairgel wrote:
    If they’ve stopped talking to you, you can make them. Make a Subject Access request (https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/personal-information/)

    It’s a wonderful and overlooked bit of the law. Essentially any organisation is required to give you anything stored electronically related to you. I first discovered about it thanks to Mark Thomas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM36lEoPTU0

    …

    If you like that, you’ll love the GDPR: comes into force in a couple of weeks. Expands subject rights (existing under the DPA) to delete and port data, cease processing it, and others.

    (Also technically, it’s anything stored, not only electronically).

    May 10, 2018 at 2:37 pm #918775
    0
    Bluebug

    Just a tip – I’ve found

    Just a tip – I’ve found companies will not apologise as that would mean admitting liabilty unless you threaten to take further action against them.

    This means you either have to take them to an ombudsman if they have one which isn’t completely useless, or threaten to take them to the small claims court using the correct law which was enforce when you purchased the bike. 

    You do have to notify them first that you are doing either of these actions giving them a timeframe of around 28 days, and instead of using email use a recorded/registered mail letter sent to their head office. The letter needs to have this proof of posting and delivery otherwise the business will deny receiving it. Plus  it makes it more difficult  for you if you do take them to court as civil cases are ruled on the balance of probabilities.

    If however you aren’t interested in taking further action against Evans Cycles as you don’t want compensation then you need to drop it as you won’t get anywhere.

    May 10, 2018 at 2:17 pm #918773
    0
    hennahairgel

    If they’ve stopped talking to

    If they’ve stopped talking to you, you can make them. Make a Subject Access request (https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/personal-information/)

    It’s a wonderful and overlooked bit of the law. Essentially any organisation is required to give you anything stored electronically related to you. I first discovered about it thanks to Mark Thomas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM36lEoPTU0

    I used it when my car was stolen. The insurer offered £18k, I made a Subject Access request and subsequently received 2 inches of paperwork, 5 CDs of phone calls and an offer of £24.5k

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